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-- Has the Internet killed the possibility of "underground" music?
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quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Are you implying that djs are playing web samples?

I think his point was the vinyls are still easy to find, since they're showcased on webshops.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think his point was the vinyls are still easy to find, since they're showcased on webshops.

I'm not talking about being able to identify a track though. I never even implied that.

Just because they are showcased on a webshop doesn't mean it will never go out of stock, thus limiting the amount of people who can own it.

Being able to ID the track is a part of the fun and it's something we all hope to be able to do with tracks that we like. It's one of the most frustrating things for me, when I hear a track that I like a lot and am never able to identify it. Of course, that is going even further under the ground but I'm talking about the availability to everyone and anyone who wants it.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Yeah but those 12"s usually still have samples up on webshops.

granted, it's easier to know the tracks thtough web shops

but vinyl still has the physical limitation of supply (just now i tried to buy a record "Koi - Deaf Torerro [Styrax Leaves]" from boomkat, and it was out of stock )

How underground something is isn't limited by how many people own it, it's limited by how many people know about it.

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Originally posted by distant How underground something is isn't limited by how many people own it, it's limited by how many people know about it.

But that doesn't make any sense. So what you are saying is that back in the 80's and early 90's, EDM was underground because not a lot of people knew of its existence? If that is what you are implying then you've really lost me there.

A lot of sets from back then still consisted of identifiable tracks. I believe that those tracks were more "underground" then ones today because of their availability. You couldn't go from party to party and hear the same tracks over and over again because only so many people had that track. Today, every dj owns Total Departure and since it's popular, they are all going to play it. To me, that is not underground. If only 500 people could play it, whether we knew the track name or not, then it would still be "underground."

well

considering that deejays play the records they own

if more deejays own it, more people will know about it!

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT Well, vinyl is limited to the amount of pressings it gets. Not to mention, it is a lot harder to distribute on a much wider scale then digital music. Both of these points would mean it would be harder for the majority of people to come across specific tracks, keeping them hidden from said people, therefor making these tracks "underground", in a sense. Is this something you disagree with?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec He has a valid point IMO, because it's not as easily obtainable and subject to more physical distribution limitations, not to mention more costly and there are physical limits to quantity.

Completely disagree on all counts.

Contemporary vinyl releases are every bit as easy to get your hands on if you know what you're looking for. Being released on vinyl in no way, shape, or form makes a record "underground" - and frankly, I think the word itself and the mentality that accompanies it is a fucking joke to begin with (and here I'm talking both about the "vinyl is underground" mentality as well as the "underground" mentality in general).

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Originally posted by RJT Completely disagree on all counts. Contemporary vinyl releases are every bit as easy to get your hands on if you know what you're looking for. Being released on vinyl in no way, shape, or form makes a record "underground" - and frankly, I think the word itself and the mentality that accompanies it is a fucking joke to begin with (and here I'm talking both about the "vinyl is underground" mentality as well as the "underground" mentality in general).

Well that is the obvious problem. People's definitions of it are different, which to me isn't something hard to cope with. The whole thing is stupid anyway. I just tried to make sense of it a little and tried to make a point of what I believe the term means.

Whitelabel 12"s stamped with the blood of thirteen fallen MC's are gully as fuck though.

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Originally posted by distant Whitelabel 12"s stamped with the blood of thirteen fallen MC's are gully as fuck though.

^Underground.

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Originally posted by RJT Contemporary vinyl releases are every bit as easy to get your hands on if you know what you're looking for. Being released on vinyl in no way, shape, or form makes a record "underground" - and frankly, I think the word itself and the mentality that accompanies it is a fucking joke to begin with (and here I'm talking both about the "vinyl is underground" mentality as well as the "underground" mentality in general).

most
like I wrote, I've been trying to get ahold of the new Styrax Leaves release (Koi - Deaf Torrero) for a few months now, and I haven't been able to get it at my local vinyl shop (downstairs from my office lol) nor on webshops without paying 21 euros for shipping alone. Because of the extreme price and limited supply of labels like Styrax Records and Styrax Leaves, not many people will play them except those located near local stores or those willing to pay up.


I don't see the problem you have with 'underground'. It simply means know one knows about it, or it's not easy to find. There doesn't really need to be a mentality attached to it, though usually there is.

I think because the distribution is less for vinyl, it gets less exposure - so i think you would tend to find more 'underground' (read, less known) tracks on vinyl.

That's not at all a comment on the quality of the music.



I mean technically you could have an MP3 underground as well, if those involved agreed to distribute it amongst a small group of people. Things like netlabels are sort of underground.

quote:

Originally posted by distant Whitelabel 12"s stamped with the blood of thirteen fallen MC's are gully as fuck though.

lol

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Originally posted by distant gully

Perfect usage.

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Originally posted by nefardec most like I wrote, I've been trying to get ahold of the new Styrax Leaves release (Koi - Deaf Torrero) for a few months now, and I haven't been able to get it at my local vinyl shop (downstairs from my office lol) nor on webshops without paying 21 euros for shipping alone. Because of the extreme price and limited supply of labels like Styrax Records and Styrax Leaves, not many people will play them except those located near local stores or those willing to pay up. I don't see the problem you have with 'underground'. It simply means know one knows about it, or it's not easy to find. There doesn't really need to be a mentality attached to it, though usually there is. I think because the distribution is less for vinyl, it gets less exposure - so i think you would tend to find more 'underground' (read, less known) tracks on vinyl. That's not at all a comment on the quality of the music. I mean technically you could have an MP3 underground as well, if those involved agreed to distribute it amongst a small group of people. Things like netlabels are sort of underground.

The only people I know who regularly use the term "underground" to refer to the music they listen to and the parties they go to are the kinds of people who are far more concerned with keeping up appearances than anything else.

That is my problem with the "underground" - I don't think it exists beyond self-delusion and/or figments of individuals imaginations who have a dire need to appear more intelligent, hip, or otherwise cool than they actually are.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT The only people I know who regularly use the term "underground" to refer to the music they listen to and the parties they go to are the kinds of people who are far more concerned with keeping up appearances than anything else. That is my problem with the "underground" - I don't think it exists beyond self-delusion and/or figments of individuals imaginations who have a dire need to appear more intelligent, hip, or otherwise cool than they actually are.

I think you're probably right

but those people will be delusional no matter what word they use

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I think you're probably right but those people will be delusional no matter what word they use

Indeed.

It just seems ridiculous to me to call anything underground, when it seems most people are either going to fall into the camp described above or are really just trying to say "Not that many people know about this."

You can't make an underground record, no matter how hard you try. And when you do make a record that your audience declares "underground", there's no telling how long that moniker is going to last - because two weeks later it could be cheese.

I don't know - just seems like such a ludicrous word people bandy about all the time without even really thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Indeed. It just seems ridiculous to me to call anything underground, when it seems most people are either going to fall into the camp described above or are really just trying to say "Not that many people know about this." You can't make an underground record, no matter how hard you try. And when you do make a record that your audience declares "underground", there's no telling how long that moniker is going to last - because two weeks later it could be cheese. I don't know - just seems like such a ludicrous word people bandy about all the time without even really thinking.

you seem pretty serious about this underground thing. How's that working out for you?

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Indeed. It just seems ridiculous to me to call anything underground, when it seems most people are either going to fall into the camp described above or are really just trying to say "Not that many people know about this." You can't make an underground record, no matter how hard you try. And when you do make a record that your audience declares "underground", there's no telling how long that moniker is going to last - because two weeks later it could be cheese. I don't know - just seems like such a ludicrous word people bandy about all the time without even really thinking.

So you believe that being "underground" is more of a lifestyle then how rare something is or that it isn't available to people on a larger scale.

quote:

Originally posted by DOOMBOT So you believe that being "underground" is more of a lifestyle then how rare something is or that it isn't available to people on a larger scale.

Absolutely.

I didn't need a new word for "rare" or "new." Those did just fine with fewer syllables.

Can't say I disagree.

And just so we're clear (to those of you actually putting some effort into this thread), I don't think any of you fall into the "keeping up appearances" category - I do, however, think that attitude is extremely pervasive in clubland, and can't help but associate that stereotype with the so-called (or self-described) "underground" set.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT I don't know - just seems like such a ludicrous word people bandy about all the time without even really thinking.

i wonder if it's ludicrous because of the people who use it or if it's the word/usage itself. in any case i think it's a loaded word that implies class distinction.


just be careful you're not avoiding the word to keep of the appearance of not being someone who is keeping up appearances

Oh man, I see what you did there. Vicious cycle, eh?

Edit: And to answer your question, it's both. The people are generally idiots and the only things that are actually underground are caves filled with piping hot magma.

That doesn't have anything to do with music.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak thomas datt...underground??? forgive me but the only thing under him is mellymel. epic lulz.

lol. can't believe i missed this!

Just for the sake of my Datty poo. He had nothing to do with the naming of the cd and tracks in the cd.

He was just told to mix em.


But yeah..... Doesn't stop me from being under him.. RAWRRRRRRR

quote:

Originally posted by thechronic STFU Indiana Jones!

edit // Oh and no, I don't think the internet has killed underground music.

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