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-- Former Astronaut and scientist reveals the existence of aliens and suggests coverup!
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the whole reverse engineering and suppression of alien techonlogies is a little out there for me, personally. I am more covinced by the actual footage that's been released and by the testimony from hundreds of credible people, plus the unending supply of sightings from all over the world.

It all raises more questions than it gives answers and should be researched as openly as possible with full public awareness.

I don't have a personal opinion about UFOs, but with at least 100 billion fucking galaxies in our observable universe, why is it so hard to believe that extraterrestrial life exists?

I thought that was pac man at first

^^^ that is one my main issues with "informed skeptics" such as Diginut.

Why is it such a far out concept that a civilisation like ours, on planets in other galaxies are at a far more advanced (and there could be many more primitive life forms) level of evolution than us...possibly millions or billions of years farther ahead?

We're already in space, although we won't live long enough to see us go very far. Just 1000 years ago Europeans started to cross the Atlantic Ocean. Where will we be going in another 1000 years, assuming this planet hasn't died from our incessant abuses by then?

Do you think that medieval Europeans could picture us venturing into space in the year 1000AD?

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 What do you think would happen in the latter option? Fear, panic and outright fucking chaos and everyone knows it. We can barely stand the sight of each other's differing skin tones and religions...do you think we're ready to accept an entirely alien civilisation?

Thats exactly why we are not seeing a true disclosure to this,Religion and greed is indeed whats holding us back from the truth.

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I don't sit at home and believe everything I see on CNN or FOX News.

As I'm sure several people here can tell you, I don't watch TV. I don't even subscribe to cable. Good try, though.

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The US government, at the urging of the private sector, did not spread misinformation and continually deny global warming for the last 20 or so years? Hmm....have you ever talked to an evironmental scientist or did you actually watch Al Gore's documentary?

This goes a long way toward illuminating the type of personality I'm dealing with here. I don't think I need to comment further on that.

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You won't comment on the video footage because you can't.

Let's say, hypothetically, that everything you've said up to this point is 100% correct. That the videos are genuine, no camera tricks, no accidental film artifacts, that these really were celestial phenomena, and that NASA is aware of it and has refused to comment because they don't have an explanation.

Let's backtrack to an earlier quote of yours:

quote:

what else could they be?

Here is where you fall down the rabbit hole, each and every time.

You continue to say "What ELSE" or "There's no OTHER explanation" as if aliens were a viable explanation. But aliens aren't a viable explanation. That answer doesn't explain the videos any more than calling it, say, God's cosmic underwear ripped off in the heat of passion with the Plaxxo Nebula.

Aliens aren't a theory. They aren't even a hypothesis. They're a catch-all argument. If you think that these things can be explained by ETs then give us something we can test or at least analyze:
- Who are they?
- Where are they from?
- Why are they interested in us?
- What are they trying to communicate to us?
- Why have they chosen this means of communication?
- How did they get here?
- What sort of technology are they using that causes these stellar phenomena?
- What specific use is this technology intended for? What does it do?
- If they've already been discovered, why haven't they shown themselves officially?

None of these questions are answered, and so saying that all of these wondrous things are due to alien visitors explains nothing whatsoever. Maybe you're right and we have no way to explain any of it. That still doesn't make aliens the correct explanation or even a plausible one.

Am I getting through to you here? Do you even understand what a theory is?

I also note for the record that you declined to provide specific examples of governments "coming forward" with "information", even though I asked you point blank. It seems that the only points you make in here that aren't entirely rhetoric, you aren't able to back up. Surprise, surprise.

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 why? WHY is it stupid? What do YOU think those things are? Or did you even bother watching anything that's out there and maybe informing yourself of why this stuff continues to happen and is getting more and more air time on the news. Again, why is it stupid? Because you watched Aliens and Independence Day as a kid and aliens are only in those silly sci fi movies?

This is exactly what Iam talking about,it is like a form of brainwashing,to make people like us look like a bunch of retards simply because we asking those questions.It is sad really

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Originally posted by DigiNut Here is where you fall down the rabbit hole, each and every time. You continue to say "What ELSE" or "There's no OTHER explanation" as if aliens were a viable explanation. But aliens aren't a viable explanation. That answer doesn't explain the videos any more than calling it, say, God's cosmic underwear ripped off in the heat of passion with the Plaxxo Nebula. Aliens aren't a theory. They aren't even a hypothesis. They're a catch-all argument. If you think that these things can be explained by ETs then give us something we can test or at least analyze: - Who are they? - Where are they from? - Why are they interested in us? - What are they trying to communicate to us? - Why have they chosen this means of communication? - How did they get here? - What sort of technology are they using that causes these stellar phenomena? - What specific use is this technology intended for? What does it do? - If they've already been discovered, why haven't they shown themselves officially? None of these questions are answered, and so saying that all of these wondrous things are due to alien visitors explains nothing whatsoever. Maybe you're right and we have no way to explain any of it. That still doesn't make aliens the correct explanation or even a plausible one.

This is what I was trying to say in my last few posts. You're clearly a lot better at it.

The Famous Phoenix lights

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 see, you can't even try to discuss this objectively with some people. They see any mention of UFOs and they immediately think "stupid" because they are uneducated and naive. There still has been no decent explanation of what those things were. Not from anyone here and not from anyone in the press, scientific community or various government administrations. But you're so quick to say it's anything but a UFO. The ignorance here is astonishing. I don't know what they are for sure, but these sightings, accounts, testimonies, images and recordings have only increased in frequency. And frankly I'm surprised that so many of you simply don't care.

OBJECTIVELY? LOL
You want to discuss UFO�s objectivity?
Objective means complete and empirical consensus, not a bunch of fucking youtube videos. So �objectivity� the only rational and scientific stance would be an agnostic one.

So let me get this straight, your premise is: nobody has been able to explain these �incidents� therefore they must be alien life forms? I�m sure you�ve heard of the saying �God begins where science ends.� because the validity of your argument is equal to this ridiculous principle.

There is nothing wrong in venturing a guess�but please, in the process do not try to impose your skewed beliefs on to others as if they were empirical facts. In all probability, there are other life forms in the universe; and its not that nobody cares, on the contrary, we have scientists who devote their entire careers into examining this field. But until we are presented with indisputable, objective evidence, every single scientist going by the scientific method, would have to yield to a stance of agnosticism.

So please, just stop this thread�with questions like this, you ask a 100 people, and you�ll get a100 different answers.

Why cant we assume that there are things way beyond our current science and our current understading of the universe?

why cant we approach things with an openminded view? instead of name callings.

Why cant we all just choose to (or choose not to) form our own opinions without being called naive, stupid, or insane.... Oh wait.. this is TOTA

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Originally posted by spolitta I don't have a personal opinion about UFOs, but with at least 100 billion fucking galaxies in our observable universe, why is it so hard to believe that extraterrestrial life exists?

That could mean many things. There is a significant progression of claims between what you just said and aliens visiting our planet with UFOs:

- Life exists on other planets. (almost definite)
- Multi-cellular organisms exists on other planets. (very likely)
- Highly-organized beings exist on other planets. (probably)
- Sentient beings exist on other planets. (maybe)
- Sentient beings who are at a much more advanced stage of development than us exist on other planets. (ehhh...)
- Advanced sentient beings exist on distant planets and have (a) mastered faster-than-light travel, (b) found methods to halt the aging process, and/or (c) have natural lifespans of thousands of years. (ummm...)
- Hyper-advanced sentient beings capable of interstellar travel exist and are interested in and committed to searching for civilizations nowhere near their current stage of development (only on Star Trek).
- Hyper-advanced sentient beings have already mapped out most of the galaxy or universe and have somehow managed to find us and have taken an interest in us before falling victim to war or catastrophe (getting more than a little far-fetched now)
- Aforementioned beings have done all this and have chosen to make contact with us... by flashing lights in the sky and performing air stunts. (huh?)

Also, the probability argument ignores the time dimension. The universe is billions of years old; our civilization is nowhere near that, and it's entirely possible that there have been other advanced, sentient civilizations, or will be, but that they don't/won't exist during the period of human existence (face it, we won't be around forever).

I'm sure that you can do a quick search for the official release of French and British reports. The UK is still in the process of releasing their classified documents after being pressured by under the Freedom of Information Act.

Here is a list of historically documented sightings. Interesting that they go quite a ways back and are all similar in their reports (disks, oval shaped, bright lights, hovering, etc). The more recent stuff is very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_sightings

You can read some of the British declassified stuff here.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/e...ufos/index.html

You can find declassified American reports of sightings all over the place, as well as FAA reports and documents that are available. All you have to do is a little objective digging and you can easily see that this very widespread.

Did you even watch the Mexican Defence Department footage released in May? There is tons of shit out there that at least RAISES QUESTIONS and leaves things unexplained.

There are so many clips out there, too, of military and civilian jets being followed by things that they clearly cannot identify. If it isn't intelligent life tracking our space shuttles and aircraft, then what are they? In some cases, the ONLY logical conclusion is that these are things with some kind of intelligence.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer The Famous Phoenix lights

there again. This kind of footage is literally UNENDING.

And again, Cookie, just because these videos are NOW on Youtube (everything is on Youtube Mr. Spin Doctor) doesn't mean they werent officially broadcast at the time of the happenings. UFO footage regularly gets coverage on the media networks too.

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Originally posted by evil_cookie OBJECTIVELY? LOL You want to discuss UFO�s objectivity? Objective means complete and empirical consensus, not a bunch of fucking youtube videos. So �objectivity� the only rational and scientific stance would be an agnostic one. So let me get this straight, your premise is: nobody has been able to explain these �incidents� therefore they must be alien life forms? I�m sure you�ve heard of the saying �God begins where science ends.� because the validity of your argument is equal to this ridiculous principle. There is nothing wrong in venturing a guess�but please, in the process do not try to impose your skewed beliefs on to others as if they were empirical facts. In all probability, there are other life forms in the universe; and its not that nobody cares, on the contrary, we have scientists who devote their entire careers into examining this field. But until we are presented with indisputable, objective evidence, every single scientist going by the scientific method, would have to yield to a stance of agnosticism. So please, just stop this thread�with questions like this, you ask a 100 people, and you�ll get a100 different answers.

but how can the scientific community get proper access to whatever is out there? Astronomers and ufo researchers in the academic world don't have the funding to carry out this type of research that can, without a doubt, prove their existence. The military estbalishments of all nations involved have to cooperate or we'll never get the whole picture.

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I'm sure that you can do a quick search for the official release of French and British reports.

Protip: When you are trying to persuade other people of your belief, you don't ask them to do the research.

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You can read some of the British declassified stuff here. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/e...ufos/index.html

So your sole evidence here is a "declassified" document which details what other people with no expertise in the subject claimed to have seen? Wow, I'm convinced, sign me up.

Jesus, I thought there'd at least be a ship blueprint or RF analysis or something. All you have is an instance of a government going "Here, we really don't feel like investing every single fucking UFO sighting anymore, so we're giving you assholes our files so you can investigate them yourselves."

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You can find declassified American reports of sightings all over the place, as well as FAA reports and documents that are available.

Again, burden of proof. Don't ask your critics to do your work for you.

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There are so many clips out there, too, of military and civilian jets being followed by things that they clearly cannot identify.

Most of which are shit quality, making it nearly impossible to tell what's really going on.

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In some cases, the ONLY logical conclusion is that these are things with some kind of intelligence.

Would you care to explain to us how this is a logical conclusion at all, much less the ONLY one?

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Originally posted by Intangible Why cant we all just choose to (or choose not to) form our own opinions without being called naive, stupid, or insane....

Most likely because there are people in the peanut gallery who are skeptical, intelligent, and/or sane, and who don't take kindly to having their experience, intelligence, and/or sanity insulted.

That's not a complete theory though, just one plausible explanation.

If you believe that governments do lie, and tomorrow morning you turn on the TV and learn that three governments have publicly announced that UFOs are really Alien Spacecrafts which they knew about for more than 50 years and never told the public about, how exactly are you gonna be sure that is the truth and they are still not covering up the real story which could even be more significant than the existence of aliens, because you do believe governments lie when they need to, right? So I guess when there is no hard evidence, it always comes down to what you want to believe, and what you want to believe is not always the reality.

Hmmmm this is interesting... I see lots of people debating here, throwing names and whatnot at each other.

To think through this logically (and to use Occam's razor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor - All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.)

1. There are hundreds and hundreds of videos and photos of unexplained "things".
2. The list is growing literally by a few hundred accounts every year
3. Logically, at least a small percentage of them must be real

This tells us just that - that some of the photo's and videos contain "funny-looking things" in them. That's it. It doesn't tell us WHAT is in the pictures, just that it's something "funny-looking".

Now, to consider all options. These funny-looking things are:

1. God's doing - don't laugh, we're trying out all solutions
2. Unexplained weather phenomenon
3. Aliens
4. Man-made stuff


In my mind, 1 and 3 are pretty much the same. If aliens exist, and can do all this crazy levitating-flying-between-solar-systems stuff, then they're pretty damn close to God in that they're WELL above us in intelligence level.

Hence, the only question you as a person have to ask yourself is:


Do I believe that all these video's show
1. Extraterrestrial/God-like creature or it's effects.
2. Weather/vision phenomenon?
3. Man-made secret technology that we are not aware of?

here is all the proof you need that aliens exist.

I have never tried to brain wash people or persuade everyone toward my viewpoint. People can believe what they want and even if the governments do come forward in the forseeable future and introduce declassified images and videos, there will still be those who don't believe it.

What I AM trying to convey here, rather, is that there is a lot of stuff out there already, which we cannot explain, that is happening in our own skies and in the space around our planet. If it's space debris, then ok...let's research it and prove it! I've never seen a reputable scientist actually provide convincing evidence that disproves some of the more recent footage posted within this thread. If the most brilliant minds we have can't explain it, I still will never understand a lot of the blatant stubbornness with which this issue is greeted by some of you here.

Humans have always been a curious race...it comes with intelligence. How many of you really don't want to know or don't care about the footage, images, sightings, testimonies, etc? Yes, we do have active imaginations and there are definitely some whackos out there who have profited off this phenomenon (as with anything in the modern world). But in my opinion, it's time that we really start to evaluate the possibility of what these UFOs really mean. I dont' think it's a matter that should be deferred to the government either.

If there is intelligent life out there and they are taking an active interest in this planet (for whatever reason), is it not in our own best interests to be as prepared as possible?

I've always been interested in how people can claim that an "unexplained weather phenomenon" can follow and track military aircraft doing around 1500 miles per hour or ones that flee or disappear when they are tracked or fired at in return!

I've also never heard of any type of weather pattern that hovers above cities in an obvious formation and flashes lights for everyone to see. Of course it's possible, but it would defy pretty much everything we understand about physics and flight.

I also don't see understand the ignorance about our own evolutionary achievements. Yes we have come quite far and we're as advanced as ever, but where were we say...10,000 years ago? Barely surviving and fighting each other with sticks and stones. Where will we be in another few thousands years, considering how rapidly we've come in only the last few hundred years after the industrial revolution.

Is it so absurd that there is the POSSBILITY that we are being studied or observed, much the same way we study and observe (and cage) less intelligent species on our own planet? We are at the top of the food chain on this planet, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest we're top of the universe. We can't even fly to Mars yet but just because we can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

^^^ too much assumption.

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 If it's space debris, then ok...let's research it and prove it!

But if it's aliens, then you only need a handful of people to say that it's aliens (or even just that it's mysterious or unexplained). Where is the research? Where is the proof?

Quite the double standard you've set, with the burden of proof placed squarely on the side of the most rational explanation.

No more ifs, buts, is it possible, why is it this, why isn't it that. No more questions. Is it possible we're being tracked by aliens? Yes, there's a very remote possibility of that. Is it a possibility worth seriously considering or discussing? No, not until there's sufficient evidence to support that explanation. In the meantime, STFU, kplzthx.

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