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-- DOW below 10,000 for the first time in 4 years
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN thanks for the link. to be honest i was too busy today to even notice that the reserve had gone for a full percentage point! all my money is tied up in real estate so i really should pay more attention! so, is the whole world at risk because of the domino effect that began in the US, or we at risk because we have gone down a similar road re lending? our pollies keep telling us we (aust) are in a good position to weather the storm, are we being lied to?

You can tell how fucked you are by how active your central bank is. The Fed is pulling all the tools out of its tool chest and is now going to enter the commercial paper market to ease the liquidity crunch:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...KSZk&refer=home

Sooner or later, it will run out of things it can do so I hope to fuck this frees up the money markets. What's going on in Iceland is a microcosm as to what might happen elsewhere. It's currency devalued 30% in a DAY. Its sovereign debt rating just got downgraded. It is a country that very well might go bankrupt. I just saw this morning that its seeking a loan from Russia and it pegged its currency. Absolutely insane.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...OEf4&refer=home

Of course Iceland's banks are extremely leveraged ... but there needs to be a worldwide response to this crisis. The ECB, the EU governments, the US, and Japan need to coordinate a global response. Both fiscal stimulus and monetary policy.

Divided, Europe may be more fucked than the US since the ECB has to coordinate policies across multiple countries and may have trouble orchestrating combined fiscal stimulus packages. Here are a list of European banks as a percentage of GDP to their respective countries

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/61d7e148-...?nclick_check=1

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Originally posted by Krypton How can we as taxpayers pay for this AND a two front occupational war? This is going to inflate our currency and rob us of our already decrepit savings. But the paradox, crisis's like these force people to save, it's a strange relationship. But anyways, do you expect the value of the dollar to continue its decline, especially when $700 billion is added to the money supply, after they've already put in hundreds of billions more in the last year? Or are the other currencies of the world also losing value and so our dollar value relative to other currencies won't change much?

I'm not very close to the currency markets so I'd rather not opine too much on it. Traditionally the dollar is the flight to safety but what's safe in this environment? Certainly not the Euro. I have heard from a few friends that the Japanese yen is relatively save however.

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Originally posted by occrider but what's safe in this environment?

Starbucks giftcards from Costco. The one near me was selling $100 face value for $75.

I am now sufficiently scared.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail I am now sufficiently scared.

good. now I can make money...

When I worked at my first company they had a 401k. The people said for every week you don't contribute you will have to work an extra month or something like that. I don't remember them telling me about situations like what is happening now.

401k is a roulette wheel spinning for 60 years and your bet is black or red. They don't let you bet on 0, and 00

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Originally posted by Trancealot When I worked at my first company they had a 401k. The people said for every week you don't contribute you will have to work an extra month or something like that. I don't remember them telling me about situations like what is happening now. 401k is a roulette wheel spinning for 60 years and your bet is black or red. They don't let you bet on 0, and 00

Time mitigates risk.

The only reason I'de ever contribute to a 401k is if the company matched my contributions, and I'de only choose a bond fund or something. The 401k my company had were Fidelity retirement funds, where you chose the year you wanted to retire, and that was your fund. Those really are a joke. I only want the company matches.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Time mitigates risk. The only reason I'de ever contribute to a 401k is if the company matched my contributions, and I'de only choose a bond fund or something. The 401k my company had were Fidelity retirement funds, where you chose the year you wanted to retire, and that was your fund. Those really are a joke. I only want the company matches.

Yeah my previous place of work had fidelity..

you needed to work for atleast 1 year. After than you can join the 401k. Then after 1.5 years they would of contributed 6%. You think this would of worked out for me if I stayed even though I left had which had nothing to do with the 401k. All I recall is for each quarter statement I received I was always going down a little and this was in 05. If I still did it up to now would I have lost alot of it even with them contributing??I was invested in minimal risk as I was young which they advised me.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancealot Yeah my previous place of work had fidelity.. you needed to work for atleast 1 year. After than you can join the 401k. Then after 1.5 years they would of contributed 6%. You think this would of worked out for me if I stayed even though I left had which had nothing to do with the 401k. All I recall is for each quarter statement I received I was always going down a little and this was in 05. If I still did it up to now would I have lost alot of it even with them contributing??I was invested in minimal risk as I was young which they advised me.

See, when you put your money in these mutual funds, you're giving your money to some money manager, who 4/5 of them under perform against the market. I only put in the money up to the amount I get the contributions, and I put the money in a bond fund or money market, something like that. Forget stock funds. They are a joke.

If you don't know anything about investing, just buy index funds (ETFs). Invest with the market. Don't try to beat it. Just google Dow Jones ETF, S&P500 ETF, VTI...Buy and forget...Give it at least 10 years, and if you have 30 or 40 years until retirement, you're index funds will have had time to appreciate, while collecting dividends, and you also would have been continually contributing too. There is no reason why you shouldn't be a millionaire by the time you retire...of course if you've got the 30 years of patient saving.

Notice how it's almost always the savers who are wealthy...

edit this thread title.

"DOW below 9,000 for the first time in 5 years"

LINK

Shoe box is the new matress

from a poster in the article

quote:

Moreover, now millions of people know this guy's name, where he banked and his general location. So in addition to exposing himself to theft and other emergent circumstances, this bright guy is also among the millions losing more millions to inflation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mc-3mXrNaE

As my Algebra two teacher says:

"What go's down must go up"

quote:

Originally posted by diggerz good. now I can make money...

yeah this reminds me of prewar germany

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Originally posted by DJLafleur As my Algebra two teacher says: "What go's down must go up"

good thing your teacher didn't teach english

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Originally posted by nefardec good thing your teacher didn't teach english

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec good thing your teacher didn't teach english

Or common sense.

THE SKY IS FALLING. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

quote:

Originally posted by occrider It's currency devalued 30% in a DAY.

Fiat money rocks doesn't it?

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Fiat money rocks doesn't it?

Youre an idiot. if you guys were on the gold standard right now you would be more fucked than totally fucked.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Youre an idiot. if you guys were on the gold standard right now you would be more fucked than totally fucked.

How so?

it's under nine thousaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton How so?

Where would all the money to bailout the financial system come from? The whole reason the great depression was "great" is because the government's hands were tied and couldn�t intervene to prevent further collapses and they couldn�t spend their way out of depression (which is what the rest of the countries who were not tied to gold did).

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Where would all the money to bailout the financial system come from? The whole reason the great depression was "great" is because the government's hands were tied and couldn�t intervene to prevent further collapses and they couldn�t spend their way out of depression (which is what the rest of the countries who were not tied to gold did).

Didn't that result in hyper-inflation in Germany (which helped Hitler come to power)? And didn't Roosevelt confiscate everyone's gold?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Didn't that result in hyper-inflation in Germany (which helped Hitler come to power)? And didn't Roosevelt confiscate everyone's gold?

the hyper-inflation in germany was due to reparations they couldnt afford to pay. dont know about roosevelt.

quote:

The gold standard and the Great Depression. The current judgment of economic historians (see, for example, Barry J. Eichengreen, Golden Fetters) is that attachment to the gold standard played a major part in keeping governments from fighting the Great Depression, and was a major factor turning the recession of 1929-1931 into the Great Depression of 1931-1941. Countries that were not on the gold standard in 1929--or that quickly abandoned the gold standard--by and large escaped the Great Depression Countries that abandoned the gold standard in 1930 and 1931 suffered from the Great Depression, but escaped its worst ravages. Countries that held to the gold standard through 1933 (like the United States) or 1936 (like France) suffered the worst from the Great Depression Commitment to the gold standard prevented Federal Reserve action to expand the money supply in 1930 and 1931--and forced President Hoover into destructive attempts at budget-balancing in order to avoid a gold standard-generated run on the dollar. Commitment to the gold standard left countries vulnerable to "runs" on their currencies--Mexico in January of 1995 writ very, very large. Such a run, and even the fear that there might be a future run, boosted unemployment and amplified business cycles during the gold standard era. The standard interpretation of the Depression, dating back to Milton Friedman and Anna Schwartz's Monetary History of the United States, is that the Federal Reserve could have but for some mysterious reason did not boost the money supply to cure the Depression; but Friedman and Schwartz do not stress the role played by the gold standard in tieing the Federal Reserve's hands--the "golden fetters" of Eichengreen. Friedman was and is aware of the role played by the gold standard--hence his long time advocacy of floating exchange rates, the antithesis of the gold standard.

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Po...ldstandard.html

Can I just point out that australia has an evil floated currency and we have a budget surplus of billions of dollars? Its not the system that's the problem, it is how it is managed

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