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-- The NO on Prop 8 thread....
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hey beyaches, okay, as the gay mascot for this board...I have to keep chiming in�

At the end of the day, this is about equal rights.

This marriage equality issue at hand has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or the Mormon Church�or ANY f�ing chruch�this is about legal recognition for committed couples and families � ie separation of church and state.

I would hope and encourage all of us forward thinking folks on this board to vote no on prop 8.

Thanks hoes!

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Originally posted by pnutttty hey beyaches, okay, as the gay mascot for this board...I have to keep chiming in� At the end of the day, this is about equal rights. This marriage equality issue at hand has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or the Mormon Church�or ANY f�ing chruch�this is about legal recognition for committed couples and families � ie separation of church and state. I would hope and encourage all of us forward thinking folks on this board to vote no on prop 8. Thanks hoes!

This proposition has nothing to do with religion but it has not stop the out of state mormons from financing to pass this proposition. Vote NO so I can marry my dog or Jeremy.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel Umm the movie rating system was devised by religious people so that they could control it. The same principals were applied to music. Marriage: while it started as a religious thing, it is no longer restricted to religion. Atheists get married for shit sakes. Sex Ed is all about abstinence and not teaching the things that you will actually encounter in daily life. Oh except STDs.

so movie/music ratings are a function of religious people? LAWL another stereotype.

atheists don't get married. try again.


sex ed isn't about abstinence. try again.

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Originally posted by R!CH the difference is that "that group of people" isn't trying to deprive the other groups of people of equal rights. gays and people who support their rights can stereotype jesus freaks. you can't compare that to jesus freaks projecting their narrowminded values upon society through lawmaking. see how that works?

deprive? what exactly is that (stereotype) narrow minded group of people trying to deprive of? cite your sources kthx

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government, people, people using the government, whatever... it really doesn't matter who or how. the constitution guarantees all americans equality of rights and a set of unalienable civil liberties. just because a legal process is used, doesn't mean the action it pursues is legal. the constitution is the supreme law of the land and an unconstitutional california voter initiative, even if passed, is still unconstitutional.

yeah and they had to amend the constitution to include woman's right to vote, but by your rationale, that would of been unconstitutional. yeah ok bud.

I miss sex ed, they never thought me how to make a girl squirt.

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Originally posted by R!CH i am very tolerant of people who are tolerant of others, but i don't have to tolerate judgmental, self-righteous hypocrites just like i don't have to tolerate racists and bigots.

im tolerant of everyone. you should try it, feels good.

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Originally posted by R!CH marriage is not an institution exclusive to christianity. other cultures have been marrying couples long before christianity existed. in this country marriage has nothing to so with religion. by law, marriage is a legal contract between two people that affords them tax exemptions, caretaker rights and shared ownership over each others assets. i can't believe you don't know this fact.

uh, in the USA, marriage is an institution of christianity. the fucking forefathers created this country based upon christianity.

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Originally posted by R!CH correct, you aren't looking for it. why is media censorship an issue? why is planned parenthood (condoms, birth control, abortion) an issue? why is sex education in the school an issue? why is embryonic stem cell research an issue? why is gay marriage an issue? why is having the ten commandments placed in a government courthouse an issue? why is the true geologic age of the grand canyon an issue? why is the teaching of evolution in public school an issue? i could go on and on if i only spent some time to think about how religious people push their views upon me...

why does any of that matter to you!?!?! jesus christ i have other things to worry about other than WTF the true geologic age of the grand canyon is. as i have said, you are looking for it. enjoy.

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Originally posted by Clovis Fuck Travis you act like no one has any agenda at all in this country.

of course they do, but i create my own reality.

now if they ban house music and dancing, then we'll get weatherman on them

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Originally posted by zerotonin79 uh, in the USA, marriage is an institution of christianity. the fucking forefathers created this country based upon christianity.

you should learn your american history.

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Originally posted by zerotonin79 why does any of that matter to you!?!?! jesus christ i have other things to worry about other than WTF the true geologic age of the grand canyon is. as i have said, you are looking for it. enjoy.

truth, knowledge and reality matter to me. it's a shame it doesn't matter to you and others in this country. that's how we get into messes like iraq.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel If you read up on why it is now legal, it is because there was a ruling regarding interracial marriage that, even though it was race related, applies to this as an equal rights issue.

Did everyone skip my post about interracial marriage in this thread?


Ever heard of miscegenation laws? How is prop 8 any different?

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Organization of American Historians In North America, laws against interracial marriage and interracial sex existed and were enforced in the Thirteen Colonies from the late seventeenth century onwards, and subsequently in several US states and US territories until 1967. Similar laws were also enforced in Nazi Germany, from 1935 until 1945, and in South Africa during the Apartheid era, from 1949 until 1985.

Think it only happened ages ago?

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Organization of American Historians Alabama School Prom High school students will find the case of a 1994 high school prom in Alabama to be especially relevant. In February the white principal at the seven-hundred-student Randolph County High School called an assembly of seniors and juniors. The school�s student body was 62 percent white and 38 percent black. Hulond Humphries, who had been principal of the school for twenty-five years, asked if anyone was planning to attend the prom �with someone who was not of the same race.� When several students indicated that they were planning to do just that, the principal threatened to cancel the event. The junior class president, ReVonda Bowen, whose father is white and mother is black, asked the principal what his order meant for her. The principal allegedly replied that Bowen�s parents had made a �mistake� and that he hoped to prevent others from doing the same

READ MORE HERE

I really hope it Prop 8 doesn't pass, but I am pretty sure it will
Just too many people that don't vote. The young,open minded, and liberal people generally don't vote(because they think there vote doens't count) as much as all they old conservates do.

I hope I am wrong

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Originally posted by zerotonin79 so movie/music ratings are a function of religious people? LAWL another stereotype. atheists don't get married. try again. sex ed isn't about abstinence. try again.

Atheists do get married.

Movie and music ratings and censorship WAS started by the religious. How is that a fucking stereotype?! Are you that fucking dense?! Oh wait. It is obvious from this thread that you are.

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Originally posted by zerotonin79 im tolerant of everyone. you should try it, feels good.

If that were the case, you would vote no on prop 8 because you are infringing on the rights of others.

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uh, in the USA, marriage is an institution of christianity. the fucking forefathers created this country based upon christianity.

Yeah ok buddy. Learn your history. They founded our country to be agnostic in government.

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why does any of that matter to you!?!?! jesus christ i have other things to worry about other than WTF the true geologic age of the grand canyon is. as i have said, you are looking for it. enjoy.

So you approve of arbitrary censorship by people that are unable to be challenged?

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Originally posted by zerotonin79 of course they do, but i create my own reality. now if they ban house music and dancing, then we'll get weatherman on them

So by this logic, since it doesn't affect you, it doesn't matter whether it passes or fails. Yeah good job in showing your ignorance.

I'm so glad I started this thread. I wish I was at my computer more lately so I could keep up. I said at the start...my girlfriend getting more involved and actually volunteering with a group out of Weho to make phone calls to INFORM people on what this prop is about opened my eyes. I have plenty of gay friends and support gay marriage, but that is not what this is about. It's about BASIC CIVAL AND HUMAN RIGHTS! Gay marriage is already legal in CA. You might remember this from 2 months ago. Voting NO on this just keeps things how it is now. Voting YES is trying to change the CA Constitution. Just think of about that! Anyone have kids who have been taught about gay marriage in school so far? Want the the rest of the total BS on this prop...go to www.WhatisProp8.com (which, despite the name is a "YES on Prop 8 site trying to be deceptive") and look at the bias
opinion on there. Just look at the bold print in their top 6. Compare it to the www.NoOnProp8.com. Pay attention the different approach. This prop was raised by religious groups who fear gay people and think it goes against everything they have been brought up to believe. This is the F*UCKING 21ST CENTURY!!! And all this talk about "gays" having money to push this prop...they aren't pushing this prop...they are defending the rights they have just recently gained through a long struggle. BASIC CIVAL RIGHTS! What the f*ch does anyone care if someone wants to marry their damn house plant or someone of the same sex! You still think "colored people" should
drink out of different drinking fountains? You may not like to think about it that way but its the same kind of discrimination. People are people and they...we... should all have the same basic rights. That's what this is about! And by the way...like I said on page 1...they are being totally out funded by religious groups. Mainly Mormon groups out of Utah. THEY DON'T EVEN F*UCKING LIVE IN THIS STATE! I'm not trying to diss any religions, this is a fact. If you want to talk about money pushing this bill...they are the ones with the money and pushing this prop to pass. This is a case of religious beliefs against human equality. And feel free to step up and make a case on voting yes on prop 8 without a religious belief behind it. I would love to hear you're reasoning.
If you're voting yes you already know you're voting yes. If you're on the fence just think about why you wouldn't vote no. I just doesn't make sense. Who the hell is anybody to say that who someone else can marry. Despite the legal and financial aspects of it. Just to be able to call the person you love your Wife or Husband. Who is anybody to take that away from someone. And just remember...this is not about gay marriage...it's a statement on our rights as human beings.

As a side note...if you haven't seen the preview...look up the movie "Milk." One of the great movies coming out, and at the very least another Oscar nomination for Sean Penn...I hope.

VOTE NO!!!!

I would rather give rights to a gay couple than illegal aliens, which we already give rights to.

All American citizens deserve the same rights as others, that's what America is supposed to be all about!

I go to Church and I keep getting these flyers from the Church that read "Protect Marriage, vote yes." It's a bunch of B.S. if you ask me because if we are supposed to be Christians then we have no right to judge others.

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Originally posted by hotmom714 VOTE NO!!!! I would rather give rights to a gay couple than illegal aliens, which we already give rights to. All American citizens deserve the same rights as others, that's what America is supposed to be all about! I go to Church and I keep getting these flyers from the Church that read "Protect Marriage, vote yes." It's a bunch of B.S. if you ask me because if we are supposed to be Christians then we have no right to judge others.

So your basicly saying Christians should contradicate what the Bible says about gays? Though it blatantly say its wrong, there isn't any justification for it.

Just like i can't go cheating on my wife, though i'm a man and I do have temptations.. yeah i said it. i'm not perfect, but as days go by I atleast try.

Anyone that has a family and kids shounld understand why redefining marriage is an offense to those that believe in the sanctity of marriage. Let the flaming begin.

FYI, I haven't been to church in years..

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Originally posted by system-7 Anyone that has a family and kids shounld understand why redefining marriage is an offense to those that believe in the sanctity of marriage.

Yeah, the sanctity of marriage...as the divorce rate approaches 70%.

Marriage, just like LIFE has been plenty redefined as humans continue to evolve. Oh noes, I just said the 'e' word!

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Originally posted by system-7 So your basicly saying Christians should contradicate what the Bible says about gays? Though it blatantly say its wrong, there isn't any justification for it. Just like i can't go cheating on my wife, though i'm a man and I do have temptations.. yeah i said it. i'm not perfect, but as days go by I atleast try. Anyone that has a family and kids shounld understand why redefining marriage is an offense to those that believe in the sanctity of marriage. Let the flaming begin. FYI, I haven't been to church in years..

The bible, and all religions specifically preach AGAINST forcing their beliefs on others and allowing them to live in peace as they choose. Banning gay marriage is not doing that.

Again, how you choose to believe is your choice, but forcing others, by changing the law, is not being tolerant. It is blatant discrimination and is then a civil rights issue. Humans are humans are humans. It doesn't matter if they are attracted to men, women, or donkeys, they are still human. They not only deserve, but require the same equalities that are granted to the rest of the general public.

Reese: It doesn't change the US constitution, just the California constitution.

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Originally posted by skizzell Yeah, the sanctity of marriage...as the divorce rate approaches 70%. Marriage, just like LIFE has been plenty redefined as humans continue to evolve. Oh noes, I just said the 'e' word!

haha yeah seriously. The divorce rate is insane in this country. And it is on the rise around the world.

Oh and please show me where in the bible it preaches against gays.

Someone has failed to mention that what separates Humans from any other creatures is that, originally we were made to follow a certain order of things. I'm not trying to preach, but you asked for a reference..(these aren't my words)If homosexuality was natural I can only assume that men could get pregnant and women would give seed.

Romans 1:26
For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6

9Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God

I commend you for finding it. I was unaware it was there, but it does solidify the fact that right wing religious people are the ones who want to ban this.

right wing, left wing? 10 years ago I considered myself to be the righteous Right Winger, then as years passed I found myself doing left wing things..i believe in neither, Reps are hipocrites and condemn everyone, Left is too passive.. I am neither now.. People say Jesus would be a Right Winger, I disagree, he would be neither.. woudn't even get involved in politics...everyone deserves a second change. to Error is Human..(alright that last part sounded corney) :P

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Originally posted by system-7 right wing, left wing? 10 years ago I considered myself to be the righteous Right Winger, then as years passed I found myself doing left wing things..i believe in neither, Reps are hipocrites and condemn everyone, Left is too passive.. I am neither now.. People say Jesus would be a Right Winger, I disagree, he would be neither.. woudn't even get involved in politics...everyone deserves a second change. to Error is Human..(alright that last part sounded corney) :P

Jesus would tell everyone to get their head out of the sand and allow them to choose as they wish. He would also tell the religious people in general, that they are fucking sinners because they aren't being "christ-like" by passing judgment, pushing their beliefs on others, etc.

And yes, to err is human, but this is the reason why there are MANY that are supposed to vote on this. To weed out the idiocy and keep civil rights where they should be.

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Originally posted by system-7 Someone has failed to mention that what separates Humans from any other creatures is that, originally we were made to follow a certain order of things. I'm not trying to preach, but you asked for a reference..(these aren't my words)If homosexuality was natural I can only assume that men could get pregnant and women would give seed.

Pretty weak argument there. How come your so-called 'natural' heterosexual couples sometimes experience difficulty getting pregnant? Is that God's way of punishing them for something else?

Also, how in the world do you know how humans were 'created'? Show me scientific proof suggesting that homosexuality has not always existed in our most evolved form. Uh oh, there I go again with the 'e' word.

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Originally posted by system-7 right wing, left wing? 10 years ago I considered myself to be the righteous Right Winger, then as years passed I found myself doing left wing things..i believe in neither, Reps are hipocrites and condemn everyone, Left is too passive.. I am neither now.. People say Jesus would be a Right Winger, I disagree, he would be neither.. woudn't even get involved in politics...everyone deserves a second change. to Error is Human..(alright that last part sounded corney) :P

this is just a terribly sad post to read. the world is not black and white and everything in it can't be neatly thrown into a left or right column as you see it. open your eyes and see things for what they are rather than the false dichotomy of simplistic labels you've been taught to filter them through.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel Reese: It doesn't change the US constitution, just the California constitution. haha yeah seriously. The divorce rate is insane in this country. And it is on the rise around the world.

That's what I meant. Edit. Thanks

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Originally posted by system-7 Someone has failed to mention that what separates Humans from any other creatures is that, originally we were made to follow a certain order of things. I'm not trying to preach, but you asked for a reference..(these aren't my words)If homosexuality was natural I can only assume that men could get pregnant and women would give seed. Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 1 Corinthians 6 9Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God

Man...all this hate. You know what that usually means? Are you trying to tell us something?

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