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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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So it just happens to not be visable?
I don't remeber the Mind control machine, and yeah I agree that sounds stupid, my point I am making is what happend to the aircraft.
Boeing 757 is not a small aircraft. It wont just disintergrate on impact

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers ..it said something about a mind control machine...

Yeah the TV or PC is not a mind control device.

As regards the condition of the hemispheres themselves, an alert state of the nervous system is absolutely essential for the formation of a new conditioned reflex. If the dog is mostly drowsy during the experiments, the establishment of a conditioned reflex becomes a long and tedious process, and in extreme cases is impossible to accomplish. The hemispheres must, however, be free from any other nervous activity, and therefore in building up a new conditioned reflex it is important to avoid foreign stimuli which, falling upon the animal, would cause other reactions of their own. If this is not attended to, the establishment of a conditioned reflex is very difficult, if not impossible.
Conditioned Reflexes: An Investigation of the Physiological Activity of the Cerebral Cortex
Ivan P. Pavlov

*bell rings*

I have just watched it again myself for interest sake, and the mind control machine appears to me to be refering to an organisation, not some robotic brain washing device...

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Yeah the TV or PC is not a mind control device. As regards the condition of the hemispheres themselves, an alert state of the nervous system is absolutely essential for the formation of a new conditioned reflex. If the dog is mostly drowsy during the experiments, the establishment of a conditioned reflex becomes a long and tedious process, and in extreme cases is impossible to accomplish. The hemispheres must, however, be free from any other nervous activity, and therefore in building up a new conditioned reflex it is important to avoid foreign stimuli which, falling upon the animal, would cause other reactions of their own. If this is not attended to, the establishment of a conditioned reflex is very difficult, if not impossible. Conditioned Reflexes: An Investigation of the Physiological Activity of the Cerebral Cortex Ivan P. Pavlov *bell rings*

What, so they give a dog sleeping pills, keep it awake and the try and teach it to sit...

OT:

It all started with a guy named Pavlov. He had this dog...the rest is history.

Ivan Pavlov � Biography

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Boeing 757 is not a small aircraft. It wont just disintergrate on impact

omg, it happens all the time in jet-liner crashes! Come on! Get real! It's not un-common to find virtually nothing larger than a football after a particularly violent crash. Do you really think the powers that be would blow up their own headquarters, with their own people in there, in order to have cause to start a war or whatever the hell it is you think they needed justification for?

As for the video's references to "windows still in tact", etc...that part of the Pentagon had very recently been re-enforced as part of a strenghthening and retro-fitting program. The windows were blast proof.

I don't why I'm even debating this with you.......I must be going nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco omg, it happens all the time in jet-liner crashes! Come on! Get real! It's not un-common to find virtually nothing larger than a football after a particularly violent crash. Do you really think the powers that be would blow up their own headquarters, with their own people in there, in order to have cause to start a war or whatever the hell it is you think they needed justification for?

THANK YOU!

Finally someone in this thread has some sense

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco omg, it happens all the time in jet-liner crashes! Come on! Get real! It's not un-common to find virtually nothing larger than a football after a particularly violent crash. Do you really think the powers that be would blow up their own headquarters, with their own people in there, in order to have cause to start a war or whatever the hell it is you think they needed justification for? As for the video's references to "windows still in tact", etc...that part of the Pentagon had very recently been re-enforced as part of a strenghthening and retro-fitting program. The windows were blast proof. I don't why I'm even debating this with you.......I must be going nuts.

Yeah the building is reinforced, that's why when the plane hit the wings at the very least would have shawn off, or the engines would have been left behind or something! But no, no debris at all.
Even in New York one of the engines fell to the ground when the plane hit.

i watched that 911 eye witness that was put up and there are some very interesting points in there. I think all open minded people should watch it.

In the movie as its being shown you do hear booming sounds, the first tower u hear about 6-7 bangs at the bottom of the first tower and you actually do see dust being risen from the bottom, as soon as one more bang hits then you see the building fall.

The 2nd building, is just too much of a coincidence, i mean you hear the bang again only once this time and see the smoke and about 1 second later the building falls.

Conspiracy, i think so.

Levels of what dust look like when a building is destoryed with demolition is actually analysed and it's the same dust as the WTC dust, it's called the Pyroclastic Surge.

Again, people with an open mind, view it.

quote:

Originally posted by Psygnosis i watched that 911 eye witness that was put up and there are some very interesting points in there. I think all open minded people should watch it. Again, people with an open mind, view it.

Link? Was this in the thread somewhere, I didn't read every post in detail.

donny, if you ceased behaving like a child you might be able to make some valid points.

assuming there was a conspiracy, id like to know what people think the reasons for it were. govts are notorious for myopic tendencies, and some \"grand plan\" seems pretty far-fetched to me. id like to know what the benefits of the war (assuming 9/11 was designed to foster support for war abroad and spying domestically) so far have been for those that conspired to bring down the towers? who\'s benefitting and how???

any changes since 9/11, be they related to the patriot act or invasions of other nations (can someone tell me what the benefit for the US/the conspirators has been in attacking afghanistan?) can be repealed by the next adminstration. how could such an extensive and violent conspiracy be contemplated when any long-term plans rely on a new president to push exactly the same agenda?

ive said it before, you couldnt keep bill\'s infidelity a secret, how would such a huge exercise ever be kept quiet, by an administration that has been caught numerous times doing other naughty things?

i think we\'ve all seen and experienced how inefficient and useless govt can be. yet some of you you can point to a grand scheme that has pulled off the greatest magic act the world has ever seen. assuming there was a conspiracy id really like to know the hows and whys, rather than just people pointing out inconsistencies or apparent problems in what was a chaotic environment. id prefer more answers than questions, im not a structural engineer, or a pilot, a terrorist, an explosives expert or a politician.

i think those that question the 9/11 traditional version of events need to provide answers to those questions, rather than pointing out 1 particular window which happens to blow out as the towers come down, or telling me it was a missile that hit the pentagon, when i obviously have no way to gauge such a claim. if i cant answer all the questions being asked, im as much in the dark as if i swallow the official story verbatim

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Link? Was this in the thread somewhere, I didn't read every post in detail.

PMed

Personally, I think alot of these conspiracies are a security blanket for the people who make them.

They create these "theories" because they don't want to face the facts that our country was weak in security, and that we failed to protect american citizens. It is the truth, our government failed. The american citizens failed. Don't believe me? How many of you knew about Osama bin Laden before 9/11? When the attacks occured, and we found out who did it, most of the people couldn't even pronounce his name right.

Instead, the theorists like to create these elaborate theories that make our government look strong, and powerful, and in control. Our government ordered the attacks. Our government planned this for years. Our government ordered the military to keep their planes down.

People just don't want to accept the fact that we did get "pwned" by a bunch of religious fanatics. People won't accept that JFK got "pwned" by a lone gunman. They want to feel that our government has the capability to create conspiracies.

I just think the answers are right in front of us, and everything is very simple to figure out, especially in these popular conspiracies.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Personally, I think alot of these conspiracies are a security blanket for the people who make them.

Maybe, but they could also be the truth (atleast some of them).
Only history will reveal all at some point in the future (eg release of classified JFK files).
i personally don't need a security blanket. I don't feel under any threat at all. Just like those who live in rural USA are not under any threat, only those in NYC Washington DC or maybe LA would be targeted. Afterall, why would al-Qieda try to attack somewhere like Iowa or the like. They don't see it as a symbol...

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Only history will reveal all at some point in the future (eg release of classified JFK files).

I can't wait for that

And you are totally right

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Do you really think the powers that be would blow up their own headquarters, with their own people in there, in order to have cause to start a war or whatever the hell it is you think they needed justification for?

The ends justify the means. That is their world view.

For example, this administration invaded Iraq on the pretense that there was intelligence that the Hussein regime had weapons of mass destruction and that his regime would use them. The US figured that he supposedly used it on his own citizens so therefore he would not hesitate it on his neighbors like Israel.

Years later officially no weapons are found and the exit strategy keeps changing from finding the weapons, deposing Saddam, quelling and insurgency to install a US friendly government.

But the death toll still continues all in the name of democracy.

This is the ends justifying the means.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 The US figured that he supposedly used it on his own citizens so therefore he would not hesitate it on his neighbors like Israel.

supposedly?? youre kidding right?

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Personally, I think alot of these conspiracies are a security blanket for the people who make them. They create these "theories" because they don't want to face the facts that our country was weak in security, and that we failed to protect american citizens. It is the truth, our government failed. The american citizens failed. Don't believe me? How many of you knew about Osama bin Laden before 9/11? When the attacks occured, and we found out who did it, most of the people couldn't even pronounce his name right. Instead, the theorists like to create these elaborate theories that make our government look strong, and powerful, and in control. Our government ordered the attacks. Our government planned this for years. Our government ordered the military to keep their planes down. People just don't want to accept the fact that we did get "pwned" by a bunch of religious fanatics. People won't accept that JFK got "pwned" by a lone gunman. They want to feel that our government has the capability to create conspiracies. I just think the answers are right in front of us, and everything is very simple to figure out, especially in these popular conspiracies.

Pavlov's theories at work.

More people rather believe in cow mutilating little grey aliens making crop circles in farmland than they do that their own government (with the help of the media) would lie to them.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN supposedly?? youre kidding right?

Where you there? Doesn't matter now though because if 5,000 were gassed at Halabja more than 20,000 were killed since March 2003.

The ends justify the means.

Get it?
Got it?
Good!

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 more than 20,000 were killed since March 2003.

were you there?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN were you there?

2000+ Dead GI's click
20,000+ Dead civilians click

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 2000+ Dead GI's click 20,000+ Dead civilians click

buddy, in no way am i doubting those figures at all. and in no way am i sticking up for the war. i just take exception to those against the war using words like \"supposedly\" when talking about saddam's kurd gassing, when that statistic is just as reliable and real as your 20,000 civilians dead figure. would you like me to link you to all the info re the gas attacks as you have me? i was trying to be ironic

How about we stay on topic? This can be carried over to any Iraq related threads.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Personally, I think alot of these conspiracies are a security blanket for the people who make them. They create these "theories" because they don't want to face the facts that our country was weak in security, and that we failed to protect american citizens.

I may have said this before in this now very long thread, but imho, what all these Conspiracy Theorists are saying is;

They hate the U.S. and it's Governement (or at least it's current Administration) so much, and always have...even to the point where they can't possibly see themselves siding with the U.S. once it has been so wrongly attacked. They know what the Terorrorists did on 9-11 was completely without justification. But they just can't bring themselves to admit it, that maybe the "great satan" was wrongly attacked...so they naturally turn it around and actually BLAME the U.S. for 9-11! What other choice do you have when you're so filled with hate?

Now who is being closed-minded? You Conspiracy Theory nuts, that's who.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco I may have said this before in this now very long thread, but imho, what all these Conspiracy Theorists are saying is; They hate the U.S. and it's Governement (or at least it's current Administration) so much, and always have...even to the point where they can't possibly see themselves siding with the U.S. once it has been so wrongly attacked. They know what the Terorrorists did on 9-11 was completely without justification. But they just can't bring themselves to admit it, that maybe the "great satan" was wrongly attacked...so they naturally turn it around and actually BLAME the U.S. for 9-11! What other choice do you have when you're so filled with hate? Now who is being closed-minded? You Conspiracy Theory nuts, that's who.

OK so what your saying is that because I argue there seems to be no plane at the pentagon, going by what I can see with my own eyes in those photos, I hate America.

Good arguement.

^^^I think you must. I'm really at a loss to explain how else you and your conspiracy theory friends here could possibly be so deranged.

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