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-- paul van dyk "i make music for the clubbers, not the critics"
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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery How is it any different?

perhaps im biased but I hear a subtle quality in their stuff even when its on the cheesy side. maybe because they knew how to produce from the get-go, whereas tijs and armin were never really that good to begin with.

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Originally posted by ravenrg84 PvD talks about the difference between his music today and before (at 1:05)...

So he grew up and started being more involved in making his songs?

I don't know if it signifies anything, but even my coworkers, who I think have absolutely shit taste in everything, are listening to PVD's 'We Are Alive' right now.

I still think he was decent in the OTAB era, maybe because that album was one of the things that got me into trance. Retrospectively, I agree though that at that time vocals began to become prominent in his music, and we can see this as the beginning of his downfall.

Also, as Cobalt nicely put it on discogs:

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Paul van Dyk is the avatar of European trance, the living embodiment of everything trance has done right and wrong in fifteen years. From vital ascent, through popular glory, down into shameful corruption, his name has tracked the history of the genre. Rising star, god, sell-out: one wonders whether Paul van Dyk shares the fortune of trance, or the other way around. I've seen the man, but part of me wonders whether he actually exists. Could it be instead that he is a sort of spectral representation of the herd, taking the stochastic flow of trance and feeding it back in human form?

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Originally posted by RapidFire perhaps im biased

Yep.

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Originally posted by saluyamo So he grew up and started being more involved in making his songs?

That statement is a little ambiguous, but I don't think he means he used to get other people to produce for him. I took it as meaning he's always been the writer of his own music as opposed to many other star names, which is his explanation (or excuse) for why the sound has changed: as a musician he has grown up. Perhaps he is referring to his own control of his music: Seven Ways was apparently made with the guidance of Johnny Klimek and Mark Reeder of MFS, the label it was released on. I don't doubt that for a second.

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Originally posted by paulandrews Also, as Cobalt nicely put it on discogs:

That is a very nice summary, as usual from Cobalt. I actually wrote something very similar in my review of In Between:

quote:

To be fair, Paul Van Dyk has never claimed to be loyal to the underground, or that he would pursue one sound from sunrise to sunset. If you look back with a more cynical eye, Van Dyk has only ever really made what was most popular at any given time in the trance scene. In 1994 that was a melodic inflection on the classic German sound. In 1996 that was progressive trance. In 1999 that was the snare-rolls and super-charged riffs of epic trance. In 2003, well, it started becoming more shiny, more sing-along and more poppy. By 2007 we have more vocals, more collaborations with pop artists and all kinds of influences from electro house. His discography is a microcosm of European trance�s history, and the only trouble with that is that trance has become dry, derivative and ready to sell its soul for popularity. The sound may have changed, but the method doesn�t appear to have.

http://www.trancecritic.com/modules...op=show&rid=327

I talk about this whole issue of his decline in the review.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenrg84 PvD talks about the difference between his music today and before (at 1:05)...

"I guess I somehow grew up a little. And you know, since I'm actually making my music myself, not just sitting in the background while other people do it, my music grows with me. I think this is part of any progress in art..."

I'm confused. Is he saying that he used to not make his own tracks? Or is he just trying to differentiate himself from the "producers" that hum a melody and then hire some dude to do all the rest?

No he's referring to the Klimek era when he was engineering and co producing with him until half of seven ways, after that he decided to produce and engineer at his own.

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire if you follow his discography (barring a few cheesy tracks on 45 rpm) you can see the evolution from a pure dance sound into a more commercial one. to the point where his last album had some full out pop tracks on it. which is not to say that he shouldn't branch out into other areas but there's no denying that hes gone a more commercial route. personally i dont mind his latest albums much like BT's emotional technology. they're both really good producers and when they touch pop it sounds decent to me, id obviously much preffer if they stuck to more traditional. dance-oriented stuff but their version of pop is a lot better than say tiesto's or armin's. that shit has 0 credibility

So does commercial = vocals? I still don't know what "commercial sound" means but it sounds like its a well made vocal trance tune. And I dunno wtf you're talking about when you say tiesto or armins shit has no credibility

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Originally posted by Neo95gt And I dunno wtf you're talking about when you say tiesto or armins shit has no credibility

Of course you don't.

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Originally posted by Neo95gt So does commercial = vocals?

Commercial = deliberately composing music to make it attractive to as wide an audience as you can.

In the case of trance's commercialization, this meant including sing-along vocals, chorus-verse structure, and an extremely obvious and predictable dynamic of tension and release in the form of breakdowns. These provide clearer "cues" to the casual listener. They make it clear what you're supposed to feel, when you're supposed to dance and stop dancing, and so on. It makes the music more accessible and therefore more popular.

quote:

Originally posted by Neo95gt So does commercial = vocals? I still don't know what "commercial sound" means but it sounds like its a well made vocal trance tune.

What mr BoJingles said.

Vocals alone don't make tracks commercial but they surely do have a big part in the process. For example there are countless trance tracks which were originally instrumentals but to simply boost the sales, vocals were added into them later on to appeal to a wider audience. If a track gets praise from the fans and DJs as it is, why add vocals into it? If that's not commercialism, what is?

Half the people listening to dance music do find vocals more or less appealing so if all EDM was fully instrumental, probably only half of the current listeners or less would be listening to it and so only half the amount of music would also be sold.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Besides, I'd argue that the first steps towards his descent were made ten years ago. Tracks like Tell Me Why and the 98 rework of For An Angel were the beginning of the end for PVD. He made a massive surge from #42 in 1997 to #6 in 1998, just around the time he started making poppier trance. Obviously he didn't miss the trick.

I'd argue that jump from 42 -> 6 was down to regular parties at Gatecrasher, when the poll was still mainly UK based, surely his consistent visits to the top club in the country at the time, would have had a major impact on the poll.

Nothing to do with what he was producing back then - - because unlike today, 10 years ago, the poll still stood for what it was supposed to... a DJ poll.

I agree with a poster on page 6, the very popularity surrounding these guys, has lead to a saturation of the audience at most gigs - because to sellout a stadium or event hall you need more than just your rabid zombie fanbase, you need the masses too. It's lead them right down the garden path to commercialization of their sound.

When you have 10'000 people to please every night, you have to keep it bigroom, you have to keep it interesting... and the many times i've seen Tijs take it deeper or harder into a different style of trance than usual, and the crowd get bored and start wandering to the bars... what does he do? He has to play to who're infront of him.

I love how Tijs, Armin or PvD will use some kind of "i'm expanding my musical pallette" ballshit to justify how they just made a cheesefest new album, to "break boundaries between EDM and pop" errr LOL.

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Originally posted by Clovis Of course you don't.

I think credibility is the wrong word.

Armin and tiesto = credibility

You and your 80lb girlish figure = zero credibility

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! I'd argue that jump from 42 -> 6 was down to regular parties at Gatecrasher, when the poll was still mainly UK based, surely his consistent visits to the top club in the country at the time, would have had a major impact on the poll.

That's a good point, actually. High visibility amongst the voting public = high chart placing. This links in with my point about the number of people voting- the smaller the sample, the more skewed the results can be. But as the years go by and the voting demographic become more global, you can't just play a residency at a big club and be voted in. You've got to reach more people, more of the time.

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Originally posted by Neo95gt Armin and tiesto = credibility You and your 80lb girlish figure = zero credibility

Would Clovis be more credible if he weighed 250 lbs?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Would Clovis be more credible if he weighed 250 lbs?

Yes, but only if he shaves off the latin rapist mustache.

Jk bro

I actually just trimmed it to perfection after a shave.

quote:

Originally posted by nchs09

There you are!

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Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! When you have 10'000 people to please every night, you have to keep it bigroom, you have to keep it interesting... and the many times i've seen Tijs take it deeper or harder into a different style of trance than usual, and the crowd get bored and start wandering to the bars... what does he do? He has to play to who're infront of him.

It sounds as if they dont really want to be sellouts but in order to keep their lifestyles (contracts?) they need to push out commercial music

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Originally posted by MichaelBoogerd! ballshit

Stupendous Win!

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Originally posted by saluyamo It sounds as if they dont really want to be sellouts but in order to keep their lifestyles (contracts?) they need to push out commercial music

as someone here mentioned these guys are pretty much set for life so unless theyre really greedy (a good possibility) they don't need to produce anymore.

i wish there was an interviewer out there who had the balls to ask them why they shifted towards a more commercial sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 The completely unrelated youtube video!

haha that looks awesome

Anyone going to see him at Gods tonight??

Cant wait, Havent seen him in ages and havent been Godskitchen in time. See you at the front!!

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire as someone here mentioned these guys are pretty much set for life so unless theyre really greedy (a good possibility) they don't need to produce anymore. i wish there was an interviewer out there who had the balls to ask them why they shifted towards a more commercial sound.

Who says a more commercial sound is a bad thing?

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