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quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V This spending bill sucks ass...the Congressional Budget Office estimated that with interest, this plan equals $30,000 per American household. I for one could use $30,000...who's with me?

Because that 30,000 dollars isn't going to keep hospitals open, fund public construction projects, or ensure school teachers aren't laid off.

You can't simplify it like that.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen yes, the artilce was sent to my email by a friend, the link to the website was not. While the analytical portion of the article was not the important part, the outlined spending contained in the bill is undeniable.

But you do admit that you share the views spewed out in this neo-conservative website, yes?

Just checking. Because you said that here:

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Also, i deeply apologize if there are some in the news media that actually share my point of view and ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy But you do admit that you share the views spewed out in this neo-conservative website, yes? Just checking. Because you said that here:

give it up, FAIL

You = "Neo-conservitive websites"

Me = "There are some in the NEWS MEDIA that actually share my point of view and ideas"

If the news media is limited to neo-consevitive websites, then explain their helping hand in the election of Barak Obama. Your negative attacks towards me produce nothing, and educate nobody.


The article i posted was meant to illuminate billions in wasteful pork included in this bill, i challenge you to show how the actual bills expenditure differ from those in the article, or that they are absent. I made little if any reference to the assesments brought forward by the author of that article

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Because that 30,000 dollars isn't going to keep hospitals open, fund public construction projects, or ensure school teachers aren't laid off. You can't simplify it like that.

The root problem with our economy is a lack of private sector jobs, and there are many reasons for that. Americans don't have money...for mortgages, credit cards, cars, and discretionary spending. That means businesses will close, many already are. And because businesses close...you guessed it, the commercial real estate market is next and it will be horrendous. Bush spent a trillion last year for stimulus (spring), housing (summer), and wall street (fall) and all that money is gone and we are no better for it. Obama will do the same...watch, this bill will not improve anything.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Geeze guy ive it up, FAIL You = "Neo-conservitive websites" Me = "There are some in the NEWS MEDIA that actually share my point of view and ideas" If the news media consists of neo-consevitive websites, then explain their helping hand in the election of Barak Obama. Your negative attacks towards me produce nothing, and educate nobody. The article i posted was meant to illuminate billions in wasteful pork included in this bill, i challenge you to show how the actual bills expenditure differ from those in the article. I made little if any reference to the assesments brought forward by the author of that article

I concur...I watch CNBC, Fox Business, Fox, and CNN every morning and on my days off. The only people supporting this bill are BRack supporters and those who will directly benefit from this bill.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen

I'm not attacking you. It's just that your words seem to be twisted up a bit. Whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V I concur...I watch CNBC, Fox Business, Fox, and CNN every morning and on my days off. The only people supporting this bill are BRack supporters and those who will directly benefit from this bill.

This bill actaully has a large public support, and is growing by the day 59% aprove, 38% dissaprove, with 67% aproving of the way obama is handling the bill.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114691/O...ty-Support.aspx

Also, since dems took over, congress' aproval rating has been increasing sharply by the day

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114670/C...ting-Jumps.aspx

Nice try.

Newt Gingrich for President 2012...this is his plan.

1.Payroll Tax Stimulus. With a temporary new tax credit to offset 50% of the payroll tax, every small business would have more money, and all Americans would take home more of what they earn.


2.Real Middle-Income Tax Relief. Reduce the marginal tax rate of 25% down to 15%, in effect establishing a flat-rate tax of 15% for close to 9 out of 10 American workers.


3.Reduce the Business Tax Rate. Match Ireland�s rate of 12.5% to keep more jobs in America.


4.Homeowner�s Assistance. Provide tax credit incentives to responsible home buyers so they can keep their homes.


5.Control Spending So We Can Move to a Balanced Budget. This begins with eliminating Congressional earmarks and wasteful pork-barrel spending.


6.No State Aid Without Protection From Fraud. Require state governments to adopt anti-fraud and anti-theft policies before giving them more money.


7.More American Energy Now. Explore for more American oil and gas and invest in affordable energy for the future, including clean coal, ethanol, nuclear power and renewable fuels.


8.Abolish Taxes on Capital Gains. Match China, Singapore and many other competitors. More investment in America means more jobs in America.


9.Protect the Rights of American Workers. We must protect a worker�s right to decide by secret ballot whether to join a union, and the worker�s right to freely negotiate. Forced unionism will kill jobs in America at a time when we can�t afford to lose them.


10.Replace Sarbanes-Oxley. This failed law is crippling entrepreneurial startups. Replace it with affordable rules that help create jobs, not destroy them.


11.Abolish the Death Tax. Americans should work for their families, not for Washington.


12.Invest in Energy and Transportation Infrastructure. This includes a new, expanded electric power grid and a 21st century air traffic control system that will reduce delays in air travel and save passengers, employees and airlines billions of dollars per year.
Visit Scribd to view this document.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Because that 30,000 dollars isn't going to keep hospitals open, fund public construction projects, or ensure school teachers aren't laid off. You can't simplify it like that.

+1. and that's exactly what WILL let Americans have money, and therefore discretionary spending. Lack of private sector jobs is not the problem. Most that had private sector jobs did not save, and those private sector companies behaved completely stupidly causing their own job losses.

Also, public sector jobs in many cases ARE private sector jobs - hospitals, schools, works - they all subcontract (to the private sector).

This bill is very different from the last Bush Bill - I know, I've read them both. The stunning difference is that this one is targeted at specific areas and sectors, to achieve a set goal. The last one was just a general release of pooled funds to banks and individuals in the hope they would start using it. They didn't because they weren't forced to so just hung on to the money (also because they didn't while it was good last time).

Personal attacks are not the way guys - this is all opinions, but you have to realise that quoting from a hardline conservative blog with the purpose of alerting others to it's story makes you look like a republican far-right conservative. I'm not saying you are but I hope you get why it could have seemed that way Josh.

The "pork" is far less than you think. read the bill. Yes some seem over the top for what they return in terms of immediate jobs, but they said that about bigben, the eiffell tower, the millennium bridge, the gugenhiem, the CN tower, concorde - sometimes projects that seem a waste of money have more value than their immediate costs vs. value.

Investing in teachers and nurses can't be down valued - unless you want dumb kids and shit medical care.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy I'm not attacking you.

I think your words are twisted a bit. You have been posting in the thread for days now, but have failed to contribute.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy And you nothing more than a right wing chearleading anti-govt. copy & paste queen regurgitating garbage from the conservative blogesphere.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Perhaps you should copy and paste "news" from credible and un-biased sources and not radical right wing blogs like you did on the first page of this thread. But that might be beyond your "intellegence capabilities"

quote:

Originally posted by starboy You are in the minority, but i respect your opinion even though it's wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy You sound more and more like a fixed news meat puppet with every post.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Your right wing palin-limbaugh ideology was rejected in a big way in november, time to move on.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy I just dropped in to prove you wrong, but it looks as if everyone has already done that, and continues to do so

lol ... I can't even keep up with this thread

Josh it is so un-American of you for not supporting the bill

hehe ... that one is right out of the republican hat

here is another one ..."if you don't like the president move to Israel"

quote:

Originally posted by xenpro lol ... I can't even keep up with this thread Josh it is so un-American of you for not supporting the bill hehe ... that one is right out of the republican hat here is another one ..."if you don't like the president move to Israel"

hahaha, well I would like to move to a far away remote island and start a catamaran business. But since nobody has money to travel, that may not be a good investment right now. And the psychedelic scene has died down in tel aviv, and I am not religious, so there is no place for me there

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I think your words are twisted a bit. You have been posting in the thread for days now, but have failed to contribute.

And here are the ones you skipped over without your edits, nice try.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla No, i don't. Here, i'll do what you do. http://firedoglake.com/2009/02/01/n...xes-you-idiots/ This whole economic disaster is directly linked to "reagonomics" His philosophy was to let the market run free and implemented the largest de-regulation in history. 30 years of free market reagonomics is finally over, meet-obamanomics, it's gonna take a while to fix the failure that was "george bush" bush was way more of a socialist than obama will ever be. Obviously i'm not saying that reagonomics was the only culprit, but it was one of many.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla We can go on and on with the finger pointing but it's useless... if you think that putting people back to work, and getting credit flowing again, and putting money into the pockets of millions of struggling americans (not the rich, trickle down failure that bush tried for eight years) is not a good idea, then why is this bill so popular with the american public? Let me guess, you think that doing nothing is a better idea Tax cuts alone won't work. Also, don't try to compare this recession to others in the past that might have helped with tax cuts. We're losing 10,000 jobs a day right now, you need to stop watching fox noise so religiously, and believing these far right limbaugh-esque web sites preaching the power of NO. All these republicans in the house and senate are throwing all their cards on the table in hopes that our economy gets worse over the next couple years so they can point the finger at dems and obama and take the power back, rather pathetic and selfish if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla YES. As opposed to the 38% who oppose it? yeah 59% is huge, and that's uper 50% not mid. Not to mention the 67% of americans who aprove of the way obama is handling the stimulus, and his 65% public aproval rating. You are in the minority, but i respect your opinion even though it's wrong. http://www.gallup.com/Home.aspx

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla Create and SAVE 3.5 million jobs, i guess you're comfortable with losing firefighters, cops, and teachers due to the lack of capital and an economy in a tale spin. What's your solution to help the 10,000 jobs lost today? Serious question.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla It hasn't been rushed. Everything in the bill has been made public for almost a month while it's been going back and forth from the house and senate. About 95% of the contents have stayed the same, and has been available for everyone to pick apart, it's just that less than 1% of the entire package has come into scrutiny by fox news and republicans (like OP) trying to con the public into thinking the entire bill is that 1%. Pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla Name one "thing" that was slipped in the bill quietly. The contents of this bill have been public for almost a month, you're acting like something was parachuted in from left field at the last minute.

quote:

Originally posted by Allayla I am saying republicans are doing nothing to help, their contribution is to bet on failure of this bill in hopes of saying "i told you so" the GOP is the party of NO, they have no coherent message, and no concrete ideas besides tax cuts to get us out of this mess. This isn't enough, but it is a step in the right direction and most economists from the left and right agree.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy This bill actaully has a large public support, and is growing by the day 59% aprove, 38% dissaprove, with 67% aproving of the way obama is handling the bill. http://www.gallup.com/poll/114691/O...ty-Support.aspx Also, since dems took over, congress' aproval rating has been increasing sharply by the day http://www.gallup.com/poll/114670/C...ting-Jumps.aspx Nice try.

Dems took over Congress two years ago and have the lowest ratings ever...I don't care about gallup, most people have no idea what's going on or how to fix it. Furthermore, I'm sure many people are pleased that Congress is holding public hearings for the CEOs of the automakers and banks, even though it's only a dog and pony show. That stimulus bill is a huge payoff to his supporters, and that's all it is. Wait for the Obama luster to wear off...in time, the truth will be known.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN +1. and that's exactly what WILL let Americans have money, and therefore discretionary spending. Lack of private sector jobs is not the problem. Most that had private sector jobs did not save, and those private sector companies behaved completely stupidly causing their own job losses. Also, public sector jobs in many cases ARE private sector jobs - hospitals, schools, works - they all subcontract (to the private sector). This bill is very different from the last Bush Bill - I know, I've read them both. The stunning difference is that this one is targeted at specific areas and sectors, to achieve a set goal. The last one was just a general release of pooled funds to banks and individuals in the hope they would start using it. They didn't because they weren't forced to so just hung on to the money (also because they didn't while it was good last time). Personal attacks are not the way guys - this is all opinions, but you have to realise that quoting from a hardline conservative blog with the purpose of alerting others to it's story makes you look like a republican far-right conservative. I'm not saying you are but I hope you get why it could have seemed that way Josh. The "pork" is far less than you think. read the bill. Yes some seem over the top for what they return in terms of immediate jobs, but they said that about bigben, the eiffell tower, the millennium bridge, the gugenhiem, the CN tower, concorde - sometimes projects that seem a waste of money have more value than their immediate costs vs. value. Investing in teachers and nurses can't be down valued - unless you want dumb kids and shit medical care.

Spoken like a true liberal...you're a hypocrite. You say personal attacks are not the way and then you lay a personal attack, at least it was all in the same paragraph.

For the record, I am a free market conservative, Bush's problem is that he was not. And we already have dumb kids and crappy medical care.

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V Dems took over Congress two years ago and have the lowest ratings ever...I don't care about gallup, most people have no idea what's going on or how to fix it. Furthermore, I'm sure many people are pleased that Congress is holding public hearings for the CEOs of the automakers and banks, even though it's only a dog and pony show. That stimulus bill is a huge payoff to his supporters, and that's all it is. Wait for the Obama luster to wear off...in time, the truth will be known.

This seems to be the typical view from Santa Clarita, which is about 75% Republican Conservative.

The truth is, nobody really knows how this bill will work out in regard to righting the ship. Most of the earmarked monies are going toward projects that will create jobs and thus inject more money into the national economy. Many of those jobs may look to be short-lived on paper, but the influx of capital into the economy will hopefully lead to the creation of more permanent jobs in the future...

Eh, fuck it. I really just wanted to poke a finger at the SCV.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Scott This seems to be the typical view from Santa Clarita, which is about 75% Republican Conservative. The truth is, nobody really knows how this bill will work out in regard to righting the ship. Most of the earmarked monies are going toward projects that will create jobs and thus inject more money into the national economy. Many of those jobs may look to be short-lived on paper, but the influx of capital into the economy will hopefully lead to the creation of more permanent jobs in the future... Eh, fuck it. I really just wanted to poke a finger at the SCV.

That's probably why it's a nice place to live. But you're right, fuck it, you're a goof.

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V That's probably why it's a nice place to live. But you're right, fuck it, you're a goof.

I grew up there and it's a great place to raise a family. It's just too bad that the kids who grow into adults and remain there become so cut off from the rest of the world

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen hahaha, well I would like to move to a far away remote island and start a catamaran business. But since nobody has money to travel, that may not be a good investment right now. And the psychedelic scene has died down in tel aviv, and I am not religious, so there is no place for me there

josh move to Japan, psychedelic scene over the top there! i'll be right there with ya

Wall Street Journal editorial that summarizes many of my (conservative) concerns.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123440436240475615.html

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Scott I grew up there and it's a great place to raise a family. It's just too bad that the kids who grow into adults and remain there become so cut off from the rest of the world

Cut off from the rest of the world? Nonsense!

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V 4.Homeowner�s Assistance. Provide tax credit incentives to responsible home buyers so they can keep their homes.

This isn't necessarily a bash on your post, but I've heard this phrase a lot recently. It seems to me the majority "responsible home buyers" don't need government assistance to keep their homes... rather we got into this mess largely because of the irresponsible ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V Spoken like a true liberal...you're a hypocrite. You say personal attacks are not the way and then you lay a personal attack, at least it was all in the same paragraph.

No, learn to read. which bit of...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN ...This is all opinions, but you have to realise that quoting from a hardline conservative blog with the purpose of alerting others to it's story makes you look like a republican far-right conservative. I'm not saying you are but I hope you get why it could have seemed that way Josh.

.....is a personal attack. Maybe it was the first line. no. Maybe the last line. no.

I didn't personally attack Josh at all, and I think he would have said something if I had.

I simply pointed out that by starting a thread that was copied verbatim from a neo-conservative republican blog poeple would construe or at least assume he is a neo conservative republican, even when by his own statement later on in this thread that he is in fact not.

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V For the record, I am a free market conservative, Bush's problem is that he was not. And we already have dumb kids and crappy medical care.

I love this. No that he's gone, republicans try to disown Bush, like he wasn't a "free market conservative", He wasn't "conservative enough" etc. - are you fucking kidding me? More deregulation and encouragement of "free market" conservative initiatives happened under bush than under any other president in the last 50 years.

There's the hypocrisy right there. Learn some history after you learn to read.

I'm not liberal in the sense you mean but you use the term "Liberal" like some kind of insult....kind of like yelling "black" at a black guy? Know what i mean? You think it's an insult, but the rest of the world is like "....and?".

Some of my dearest friends an people I respect are or have been staunch conservative republicans, but the thing that makes them different to you sort is they can admit at least that republican conservatism hasn't worked, it won't work in it's current form and their theories such as reaganomics, trickledown supply side economics and deregulated free market conservatism are a flawed design of the past.

sammy v is a tool, quit wasting your time. 'i watch cable news every morning' should have been your first clue, 'newt gingrich for president' should have been your second...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I didn't personally attack Josh at all, and I think he would have said something if I had. I simply pointed out that by starting a thread that was copied verbatim from a neo-conservative republican blog poeple would construe or at least assume he is a neo conservative republican, even when by his own statement later on in this thread that he is in fact not.

The thread was entitled "stimulus bill" because it was supposed to be based on the stimulus bill. The first post was an outline of some of the spending in the bill (Which is avail anywhere as it is of public record) not the article itself.

not sure how many times i need to repeat that. I really made no reference to the article itself, the author, or the neo-conservitive site that I have never even visited.

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