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-- The Belief Spectrum
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN that's strange, because i experience the divine most often by servicing myself!

Yeah, I also find it quite spiritually moving knowing you can fuck and suck yourself too.

j/k.

This is one topic I'm completely in agreement with you. Religion is the poison for the masses or smth like that.

Personally, I think it's been the ABSOLUTE WORST fucking idea evar.

Matthew 34 - ... is enough to summarize how fucked up religion is

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


religion of peace? my ass..

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Yeah, I also find it quite spiritually moving knowing you can fuck and suck yourself too. j/k. This is one topic I'm completely in agreement with you. Religion is the poison for the masses or smth like that. Personally, I think it's been the ABSOLUTE WORST fucking idea evar. Matthew 34 - ... is enough to summarize how fucked up religion is 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. religion of peace? my ass..

this thread isn't about religion, it's about if god exists and in what capacity/mode

i think most of us agree religions suck balls

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec this thread isn't about religion, it's about if god exists and in what capacity/mode i think most of us agree religions suck balls

Oh. In that case, carry on. My personal take there's something out there that caused life to come into being - call it god particle, big bang, whatever. random occurence of events do not cause highly intelligent life in my book. whether there's a supreme being / diety of sorts? I don't think so to the tune of 6.9. Intelligent beings that created us for their own amusement (e.g. aliens)? Maybe. I mean how else you explain that Dane Cook has a career?

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Intelligent beings that created us for their own amusement (e.g. aliens)? Maybe. I mean how else you explain that Dane Cook has a career?

unintelligent beings created it for their own amusement

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec unintelligent beings created it for their own amusement

oh. that explains a lot. like myspace, lolcats, and tiesto ch0pz.

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Personally, I think it's been the ABSOLUTE WORST fucking idea evar. Matthew 34 - ... is enough to summarize how fucked up religion is 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. religion of peace? my ass..

It's Matthew 10:34 by the way.

I really don't think that this is the thread for a discussion on any one religion; however, I really can't stand to see quotes like this used out of context. Have you actually read all of Matthew 10 or just these few lines? I think it's important that people know this chapter is Jesus instructing his disciples to go out into the community and service the needs of the people, "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give" (10:8). Essentially, he is instructing them to do the work of god and warning them that some will persecute them for doing this work. He also explains that rejection of them is a god (as they are working on behalf of god). It is through this mechanism that people will divide (note; swords were used as tools for the winnowing of grain as well as weapons in Galilee during that period) themselves into two groups; those who love god and by extension all men, and those who love only particular people (themselves, family, etc.) to the exclusion of others.... essentially the just and unjust. He is in no way stating that the role of his ministry is to breed war.

Sorry everyone; I just can't let misquotes go without correction.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Sorry everyone; I just can't let misquotes go without correction.

haha, no problems. you're way more interesting than the bible ever was

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, no problems. you're way more interesting than the bible ever was

Speak for yourself, heathen!

quote:

Originally posted by enydo

I love how it is so exact.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Speak for yourself, heathen!

you hear that moral? he's calling you a boring cunt.

5

For the most part I fully agree with what nefardec is saying, and I also believe that hinduism is somewhat close to the truth. However, it like most other things is a religion with its flaws (I mean does not eating cows really make you more holy?).

However there's a certain spiritual thing that has been interesting me a lot lately. Which is the concept of right hand path religions and LeVayan satanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_path

In particular:
# The conviction that individuals can become (or already are) akin to gods.
# The conviction that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Fulfilling one's desire is acknowledged to be selfish, at the least reaping an individual sense of satisfaction. Altruism is considered self-deception, created and fostered by conventional religions.
# A less rigid definition of the self; a purported realization that there are sometimes collective identities which can also, just as validly, have the label "self" applied to them.
# An exoteric interpretation of concepts like karma, divine retribution, or the Threefold Law, resulting in flexible rather than rigid codes of ethics.
# The conviction that the individual is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not necessarily the ego).
# The conviction that each individual is responsible for his or her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation or reward actions which do not advance one's own happiness in this life.

Which seems exactly right to me. It's far too early to attempt to say anything intelligent, but theres a semi interesting read.

and heres a highly amusing website: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter In particular: # The conviction that individuals can become (or already are) akin to gods. # The conviction that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Fulfilling one's desire is acknowledged to be selfish, at the least reaping an individual sense of satisfaction. Altruism is considered self-deception, created and fostered by conventional religions. # A less rigid definition of the self; a purported realization that there are sometimes collective identities which can also, just as validly, have the label "self" applied to them. # An exoteric interpretation of concepts like karma, divine retribution, or the Threefold Law, resulting in flexible rather than rigid codes of ethics. # The conviction that the individual is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not necessarily the ego). # The conviction that each individual is responsible for his or her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation or reward actions which do not advance one's own happiness in this life. Which seems exactly right to me. It's far too early to attempt to say anything intelligent, but theres a semi interesting read.

i don't believe there are such things as individuals ultimately. an individual is a phenomenon resulting from god observing god. or if you don't like the word god, consciousness being conscious of itself.

i think of individuals as being mountains in a universal landscape, like promontories, points of observation from an endless and ultimately undifferentiated field.

i think the ultimate realization and goal of 'cultivating the self' is to realize that the self is part of the whole and is merely a relativistic phenomenon of perspective/outlook.

i also believe there is no external force. as i said earlier, i think few true mystics believe in an external force. many religious people might see god as some external being, but their priests/etc most likely realize that god is not something else, but rather everything. I think most religions in their creation myths recognize that there is nothing but god's will or consciousness, and that is why it is often personified by a voice or music or command eg "Fiat Lux".

God is neither outside of us, nor inside of us individually, because ultimately there is no individual, just various aspects of god. therefore it is not that you are individually becoming a god, but rather you are becoming aware or remembering that you always have been.

One way to think of it is god as being a hand with infinite fingers, upon which he draws little faces and amuses himself with an endless play of finger puppetry.

on the topic of 'individualism' - i think there is either belief in 'dualism' (us and them) or 'monism' (i am that). individualism manifests itself in the 'self' as a single person, but also as a nation, or a sports team, or a city, or a business, or a race, or a sex, etc. ultimately any differentiation of us versus them is a sort of individualism, except the 'body' of the individual changes.

Monism, on the other hand tries to unify various seemingly disparate entities by considering them aspects of one wholeness.

with regard to this right hand path - i think any notion of either selfishness and selflessness is ultimately deceptive. Actions are both fully selfish and fully selfless, if you consider that there is only one consciousness or god.

so see if you still agree with me now

jesus christ.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN jesus christ.

if it doesnt interest you, i recommend you just stay out of the thread, as it really wastes everyone's time.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec if it doesnt interest you, i recommend you just stay out of the thread, as it really wastes everyone's time.

something is definitely wasting everyone's time and it sure as shit aint me.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN something is definitely wasting everyone's time and it sure as shit aint me.

i wouldnt be so sure as shit

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec i wouldnt be so sure as shit

which is exactly my point. you present all these nonsense ideas without the slightest bit of substantiation. asides from giving us an insight into your own personal fantasy and illustrating what kind of garbage people will swallow, you haven't really provided anything of interest, anymore than if I posted a long-winded diatribe on my belief concerning the teapot orbiting jupiter.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN which is exactly my point. you present all these nonsense ideas without the slightest bit of substantiation. asides from giving us an insight into your own personal fantasy and illustrating what kind of garbage people will swallow, you haven't really provided anything of interest, anymore than if I posted a long-winded diatribe on my belief concerning the teapot orbiting jupiter.

i don't pretend that it is anything else than my personal beliefs. just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean others don't.

do you really think your offensive contributions are more valuable or interesting? send me a pm if you don't agree with me personally.

anyways, the actual topic of this thread is our personal beliefs.

i don't recall providing substantiation a requisite for responding.

grow up. surely you must have something better to do than to troll repeatedly in this thread and numerous others.

rolling my eyes at fanciful notions != trolling.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN rolling my eyes at fanciful notions != trolling.

for every one of my seemingly fantastical posts I there are 5 useful, helpful, and even kind posts elsewhere in the forum.

I don't think you could say the same about yourself.

So kindly fuck off.


do you really think it's not a waste of time to repeatedly mention that i have unorthodox ideas? is that your idea of a good time?

HEY GAIZ LOOK @ ME. IM A REBEL. IM UNIQUE. I HATE XTIANS.

IM SO BAD ASS. HATING ON XTIANS IS THE NOO EMO.

quote:

Originally posted by -FSP- HEY GAIZ LOOK @ ME. I SUCK BIG COCKS.

I'm a 2-3. I believe in a supernatural first cause.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you present all these nonsense ideas without the slightest bit of substantiation.

One of his points is absolutely correct though.... we are part of the universe and we observe the universe... if you wish to believe that the universe is god then we are part of god observing god. The rest seems to be a deduction from that truth.

quote:

Originally posted by -FSP- HEY GAIZ LOOK @ ME. IM A REBEL. IM UNIQUE. I HATE XTIANS. IM SO BAD ASS. HATING ON XTIANS IS THE NOO EMO.

Just as a point of clarification... PKC does not hate Christians; rather, he takes great umbrage with religiously motivated political activism (which is an entirely reasonable position).

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