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Originally posted by Sunsnail Isn't the sun and the solar systems the product of a previous star's supernova or such? So we're not even first generation

Yup. We're the descendants of stars, if you think about it.

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Originally posted by stren Very small ? i wouldn't say that. Life on earth is pretty young compared to the age of the universe. With such a large number of stars and solar systems there are bound to be planets able to support life in many of them. Hell, even our solar system had 2 planets able to support it (Mars being the second one). Chances are there are less intelligent and more intelligent life forms out there.

I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Yup. We're the descendants of stars, if you think about it. I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

i doubt it.. just look at convergent evolution for example.

what are the chances that wings evolve on both bats and birds. Or eyes evolve on both deutorostomes (vertebrates) and protostomes.

once you have bacteria your set.. or even amino acids via chemical evolution.


You remind me of those people who say.. OH IF BEES GO EXTINCT WE ARE ALL FUCKED.
Even if we nuke this planet 500 times life will presist i guarantee it.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH I disagree. Too many things have to go right for life to develop on a planet. Every factor that contributes to the growth of life minimizes the chances a little bit more. To reach intelligent life even more things have to go right. By then the chances would be tiny.

This is a misconception. It assumes that the only way intelligent life is the evolutionary path we took. You actually have no idea how likely intelligent life is, at all.

Another common misconception is that it's incredibly unlikely that life on Earth exists at all. A lot of religious sceptics point out that life began here far quicker than it should have done, and that the odds of that happening here are incredibly tiny. They are, but the odds of winning the lottery in this country are 14,000,000:1, and yet someone wins the lottery every week.

If you look at the .gif iTranscendence posted early in the thread, there are potentially 10,000,000,000,000,000 stars in one comparatively tiny section of space observed by Hubble. The number of stars in the whole universe is unfathomable. The amount of planets where life could form is vast. So while it may be incredibly unlikely that life started so early on Earth, it's not impossible. Our planet just happened to win the lottery.

amino acids were created from basic elements in the miller urey experiment which simulated low oxygen earth.. These amino acids form proteins which make up organisms.

chemical evolution is hypotesized to have begun shortly after earths formation. from there to prokaryotes it took about 1 billion years or so.

2 billion years after that you have multicelular organsism (eukaryotes)
then 500 million years ago the cambrian explosion which brought more complex multicelluar organisms and most of the 42 phyla that exist today.


so from basic elements carbon hydrogen oxygen and nitrogen its presumed RNA, precursor to dna, was formed in the oxygen reduced environment.

that took 4 billion years or so

now we have a 17 billion or so old universe and 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 or so stars multiplied by 5 presumed planets per start i would say and you have that many planets which could have had those elements present.

plus we don't know how often the universe has recirculated and which big bang we're in. so that increases the probability even more.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i doubt it.. just look at convergent evolution for example. what are the chances that wings evolve on both bats and birds. Or eyes evolve on both deutorostomes (vertebrates) and protostomes. once you have bacteria your set.. or even amino acids via chemical evolution.

What the fuck are you talking about? Once you have bacteria you're set for what? As far as we know to reach intelligent life it takes a freaking long time. Bacteria doesn't set or guarantee anything, except that there's microscopic life, which I don't doubt exists somewhere out there.

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You remind me of those people who say.. OH IF BEES GO EXTINCT WE ARE ALL FUCKED. Even if we nuke this planet 500 times life will presist i guarantee it.

lol how the fuck is any of this relevant? What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with that.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This is a misconception. It assumes that the only way intelligent life is the evolutionary path we took. You actually have no idea how likely intelligent life is, at all.

It doesn't assume anything but simply goes by what we know. You can theorize all you want about the various different methods of life developing but up until we observe it happening, it'll all be left for sci-fi novels to mull about.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH It doesn't assume anything but simply goes by what we know.

No. You said "Too many things have to go right..." You don't know that. What we know doesn't tell us that. You can't work out any kind of probability from what we know, because we know only about life on one planet.

We haven't even defined what constitutes "intelligent life". If you're talking about aliens that build cities and have wars then you're probably right, but the odds are that any life we might encounter will probably be radically different to life on Earth in the first place.

Intelligence could be an inevitable product of evolution, it could be one very unlikely product. You don't know and neither do I.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No. You said "Too many things have to go right..." You don't know that. What we know doesn't tell us that. You can't work out any kind of probability from what we know, because we know only about life on one planet.

Judging by everything we know about life thus far, certain things HAVE TO go right. Stars have to be suitable, a planet has to be in a prime distance from the star to create conditions for life; then the building blocks for life have to actually develop. Then it has to survive long enough to develop into something more than a micro organism. There's too many variables that impact the whole developmental process of life as we know it to just throw out statements like "oh ya there's totally more intelligent life out there."

You can theorize about life developing in completely different conditions but thus far we haven't any proof that life develops without those building blocks.

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We haven't even defined what constitutes "intelligent life". If you're talking about aliens that build cities and have wars then you're probably right, but the odds are that any life we might encounter will probably be radically different to life on Earth in the first place.

I think I originally said that there's a very very small chance that at this point in time, there is life out there that is as intelligent as us. They might've existed a long time ago and died off, or they're lagging behind us. But chances that they're existing at the same time as us and are as advanced as us is small.

Now, defining what constitutes "intelligent life" is a completely different discussion and its something that won't be defined for a long long time (well beyond our lives) but what I was referring to was beings that share similar observational and intuitive skills, self-awareness and similar mental capacities. Sure there's also the possibility that there's beings out there that could be completely beyond our wildest imaginations but thats not even close to what I'm talking about.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH Judging by everything we know about life thus far, certain things HAVE TO go right.

How do we know they have to go right? It hasn't been proven there is no life on the other planets in this solar system yet. Many scientists think life could exist on Europa, one of Jupiter's moons. Even if there isn't, there's no proof that life merely hasn't begun there yet. We're not even certain how life started.

We know that conditions on Earth are conducive to life, because there is life here. Everything else in your argument is an unproven assumption. For what it's worth, I'm not throwing out statements of probability. I'm as agnostic about life elsewhere in the universe as I am about a creator. Not enough is known to say it's likely or unlikely. That's my point.

Also, my big figures about stars and galaxies had nothing to do with intelligent life elsewhere. The point was to dispel the notion that life here is so incredibly improbable that it had to have come from a creator, which wasn't a point you were making. I was just tackling another misconception about probability of life while the subject was there.

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Sure there's also the possibility that there's beings out there that could be completely beyond our wildest imaginations but thats not even close to what I'm talking about.

Not what you're talking about, but perhaps what Stren was talking about. Certainly what I'm talking about. If your definition of intelligent life is "intelligent like us" then I'd agree 100%. I don't think there's any such life in the universe. But my definition of intelligent life is quite different.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH What the fuck are you talking about? Once you have bacteria you're set for what? As far as we know to reach intelligent life it takes a freaking long time. Bacteria doesn't set or guarantee anything, except that there's microscopic life, which I don't doubt exists somewhere out there.

I laid out for you the time lines for evolution on earth. It seems through radiometric dating the hardest evolutionary step was from single cell bacteria to multicellular bacteria. which probably took a good 2 or so billion years.

around 1 billion years later you get complex mutlicellular organisms and very soon after you have .5 billion years you have arthropod like creatures and life evolves exponentially at that point with diversity.

So essentially if there is evidence of eukaryotic life out there (multicellular bacteria) it shouldnt be so far of a stretch to find complex organisms.

Now as intelligent as humans? it may be difficult that this could occur but its definatley probable. They theorized that the troodon dinausaur was a possible candidate for intelligence on our scale and may have evolved as we did from apes. During the cretacious period, it was the most intelligent dinosaur (cranial capacity wise). This is very presumptious though and since the dinosaurs were extinct by a large asteroid we would never know. We still have about 5 billion years left before our sun goes into red giant mode where the earth may be engulfed. So Complex organisms have been around for only 500 million years or so. Fairly intelligent life for about 70 million. Its very possible that even after our extinction other animals may take on the role of most intelligent on our planet. There would be at least 4 billion years to do this (presuming we could last another 1 billion years but i doubt it. )

So anyways my point is that its not so far fetched to get intelligent life on a planet if you have the basic building blocks for them. Complexity is not an issue with evolution. once you have the foundation, evolution occurs on an exponential level according to the Earth model. (the only model we have).

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lol how the fuck is any of this relevant? What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with that.

absolutely it does. Will us polluting the planet kill all life as we know it?

We could burn down all the trees hunt all the animals we could find and life would still persist and evolve. We are just a blip on the biological time scale. It would all be resolved with due time. (several million years none the less though)

divide 500 by .2 thats how long our species have been living for relative to complex life. Our presence is insignificant. So my point is that life is not isolated to certain circumstances. The playing field does not need to be JUST RIGHT for things to occur. The whole thesis of natural selection is that life adapts to the environment, and the environment doesn't adapt for life.

Do you know that there is life in volcanoes?
In extreme salinity ?
extreme pH ?

It seems to me circumstances do not need to be just right. but instead If chemical evolution can occur as well as simple prokaryotic life. A huge hurtle has been jumped to set the stage for complex life.

Very probable after that point.

I dont think evolution takes as long as you think , Just look at boobs , no seriously , look back in time about 50 years or so , and acompanied by facts , which i cant be bothered to find , show that womens fun bags are increasing by 1 cup size per generation.

proof is in the boobs.

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Originally posted by adi_hanson I dont think evolution takes as long as you think , Just look at boobs , no seriously , look back in time about 50 years or so , and acompanied by facts , which i cant be bothered to find , show that womens fun bags are increasing by 1 cup size per generation. proof is in the boobs.

what about african boobs from native tribes

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit what about african boobs from native tribes

They always have been saggy , and always been in africa.

White people im , or what the article i read , was refering to.

But you see african tribes walking over rocks and whatever else , and i prance like an idiot if i have to walk to the car barefooted because i left something in it.

i think local enviroments can cause very quick changes in any animal form.

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Originally posted by adi_hanson They always have been saggy , and always been in africa.

Any boobs will get saggy much faster in the absence of bras. Doesn't matter if they're in Africa or not.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Any boobs will get saggy much faster in the absence of bras. Doesn't matter if they're in Africa or not.

Damn right!

way to divert this thread guys..

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit way to divert this thread guys..

What!! your not glad its turned to boobs????

I meant to post a great explanation of why boobs are so inspiring. But, I'm exhausted, and decided to post this instead:

when i opened this thread i thought lira would be writing something inspiring.. but then i remembered the last post was about boobs and i expected nothing less from him

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Originally posted by Meat187 Fuckin' Canis Majoris eats whole solar systems for breakfast! Edit: If I could choose how I die I'd want be to teleported right into the middle of that thing.

Just imagine its supernova and the blackhole it's going to make

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Originally posted by Lira I meant to post a great explanation of why boobs are so inspiring. But, I'm exhausted, and decided to post this instead:

This is a theory I heard on a TV doco once:

For primates who tend to walk on all fours the primary visual stimulus is buttocks.. which will sometimes swell on females when they are fertile. In humans, who walk upright and have adapted to face-to-face intercourse female breasts have developed as "surrogate buttocks" if you will.

The ability of our intellect to make an attempt to understand the mechanics of the Universe and its ability to make us realize our physical insignificance, itself, should make us feel awesome about ourselves and our place in this universe.

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Originally posted by meriter Flower of Life

The great white looks so cute and harmless under that monster, huh?

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