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Look up "Aghori" on youtube. These tantric ascetics in India that try to transcend dualism by undergoing gruelling physical and psychological penances which include breaking pretty much every taboo. They live in the cremation grounds and cover themselves in the ashes from the cremation fires. They eat out of bowls made from human skulls. They eat everything that is considered unclean by mainstream Hindu society.. rotting meat, including human corpses, feces, urine etc. Apparently that's just scratching the surface.. the videos are fucking disturbing.

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Originally posted by astroboy Look up "Aghori" on youtube. These tantric ascetics in India that try to transcend dualism by undergoing gruelling physical and psychological penances which include breaking pretty much every taboo. They live in the cremation grounds and cover themselves in the ashes from the cremation fires. They eat out of bowls made from human skulls. They eat everything that is considered unclean by mainstream Hindu society.. rotting meat, including human corpses, feces, urine etc. Apparently that's just scratching the surface.. the videos are fucking disturbing.

Can�t you see that this is the only way to enlightenment and oneness with the world?

While you sit at home in your warm, comfy chair listening to music and enjoying life, you�re completely blinded to the fact that you could be�OUT THERE, AT ONE WITH THE WORLD. At one with the living, at one with the dead, existing in a state of pure harmony, transcending the rotten ideals of your comfortable life. Only through intimate connection with decay can you realise the impermanency of life and begin to fuse the two together, in ONENESS. Don�t you see? This is the way to love � smother yourself in the remains of your ancestors. Revel in their mistakes and relive your own. Realise that there are NO MISTAKES, only ONE ULTIMATE TRUTH. This is the way to enlightenment.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Can�t you see that this is the only way to enlightenment and oneness with the world? While you sit at home in your warm, comfy chair listening to music and enjoying life, you�re completely blinded to the fact that you could be�OUT THERE, AT ONE WITH THE WORLD. At one with the living, at one with the dead, existing in a state of pure harmony, transcending the rotten ideals of your comfortable life. Only through intimate connection with decay can you realise the impermanency of life and begin to fuse the two together, in ONENESS. Don�t you see? This is the way to love � smother yourself in the remains of your ancestors. Revel in their mistakes and relive your own. Realise that there are NO MISTAKES, only ONE ULTIMATE TRUTH. This is the way to enlightenment.

Lol... teach me your ways guru-ji!

I'd embed the vids but I'd get banned for some of the shit they sho.. there's one where this guy drags a bloated corpse from the gangha - parts of it are literally green with decay, the Siddhu sits on it and prays for a while, then hacks off one of the arms and starts eating the meat. One of the commentaries says they engage in necrophilia at certain times as well... eff-ing insane.

Having said that I have practiced meditation before and the experience has lead me to think that some of meditational practices, particularly from the Buddhist tradition may have a lot to teach the West with regards to the nature of consciousness.. which is still pretty much a mystery to science... You just have to be careful to separate it from the religious mumbo-jumbo.

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Originally posted by astroboy Lol... teach me your ways guru-ji! I'd embed the vids but I'd get banned for some of the shit they sho.. there's one where this guy drags a bloated corpse from the gangha - parts of it are literally green with decay, the Siddhu sits on it and prays for a while, then hacks off one of the arms and starts eating the meat. One of the commentaries says they engage in necrophilia at certain times as well... eff-ing insane.

Woah.

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Originally posted by we_R_DNA 0101011101101000011000010111010000100000011010010111001100100000011010010111010000111111

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Originally posted by astroboy Look up "Aghori" on youtube. These tantric ascetics in India that try to transcend dualism by undergoing gruelling physical and psychological penances which include breaking pretty much every taboo. They live in the cremation grounds and cover themselves in the ashes from the cremation fires. They eat out of bowls made from human skulls. They eat everything that is considered unclean by mainstream Hindu society.. rotting meat, including human corpses, feces, urine etc. Apparently that's just scratching the surface.. the videos are fucking disturbing.

The ascetics do not try to transcend dualism. They reinforce it simply by giving any importance at all to the condition of their body.

Asceticism is spiritual gluttony.

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Originally posted by nefardec The ascetics do not try to transcend dualism. They reinforce it simply by giving any importance at all to the condition of their body. Asceticism is spiritual gluttony.

You can argue that their attempts are misguided/in vain/based on erroneous assumptions.. But isn't their original intent (misguided though it may be) to transcend the illusory nature of reality?

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Originally posted by we_R_DNA Care to explain any delusions?

sure. im using "delusion" as a crude metaphor for this

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A nondual philosophical or religious perspective or theory maintains that there is no fundamental distinction between mind and matter, or that the entire phenomenological world is an illusion (with reality being described variously as the Void, the Is, Emptiness, the mind of God, Atman or Brahman).

anything can be labelled a delusion if we're really subscribing to this ^^ approach.

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Originally posted by we_R_DNA Care to have a real dialog than to resort to an ad-hominem approach?

not really. i thought i did a rather splendid job of explaining my lack of interest in the subject

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Originally posted by Omega_M This is not just about philosophers. It's about physicists, neurologists, anthropologists, psychologists trying to make sense of what are seeing through their research. And the right way to approach this is through conferences like the one we are seeing here; which are a perfect forum for exchange of ideas between scholars of eastern philosophy and western scientists. Profiles of speakers in this conference are rather impressive.

you can intellectualise pretty much any topic. indeed, if we are to take nondualism seriously i would argue that we could posit just about any idea and it could be neither truth nor fallacy so why fucking bother in the first place?

as an exercise in critical thinking, debate, BS chat between mates, sure, these kinds of discussions hold merit. but as a frame of reference for qualitatively improving the quality of life for anyone on the planet, i find it wanting.

bring me back the nondualist vaccine for AIDS or something and then i'll be impressed.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN bring me back the nondualist vaccine for AIDS or something and then i'll be impressed.

you do realize that the scientific community has been largely nondualistic (in the anti-cartesian sense) for decades now, right?

sorry to interrupt

pssssst, nefardec, moar sets and music discussion type things. You're one of the best.

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Originally posted by enydo sorry to interrupt pssssst, nefardec, moar sets and music discussion type things. You're one of the best.

hey there, i've got two live sets that i have been lazy about posting here

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Originally posted by nefardec you do realize that the scientific community has been largely nondualistic (in the anti-cartesian sense) for decades now, right?

Again, that means absolutely nothing in relation to "qualitatively improving the quality of life for anyone on the planet."

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Originally posted by Domesticated Again, that means absolutely nothing in relation to "qualitatively improving the quality of life for anyone on the planet."

Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from nondualistic approaches rather than dualistic approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

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Originally posted by nefardec Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from nondualistic approaches rather than dualistic approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

That still doesn't mean anything. Here, I'll replace your words with a concept which isn't so dear to you and see if what you wrote still seems sensible.

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Originally posted by nefardec Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from non-Catholic approaches rather than Catholic approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

or

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Originally posted by nefardec Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from non-homosexual approaches rather than homosexual approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

or

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Originally posted by nefardec Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from non-post modern approaches rather than post modern approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

or

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Originally posted by nefardec Yes, it does. It means that future developments in science and future 'improvements' will come from non-Republican approaches rather than Republican approaches, especially in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

...and so on and so forth.

The postmodern one isn't true. Everything's postmodern. Even science.

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Originally posted by nefardec in the areas of neurology, cognitive psychology, etc.

ding ding ding...

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Originally posted by nefardec you do realize that the scientific community has been largely nondualistic (in the anti-cartesian sense) for decades now, right?

you mean like binary which arbiter alluded to earlier?

if this is indicative of "nondualism" then i can't say im particularly enthused by what it has to offer as an overarcing ism.

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Originally posted by we_R_DNA I am stuck though between two worlds; I am alive and living here on earth;] The day ends and I go to sleep and have a dream This seems like a separate place of existence because I am in the world of the abstract. But the non-dualistic nature helps us realize that dreams are apart of reality. Perhaps the most vital part of reality in my opinion since society keeps preaching that dreams are not real. Dreams are a reality and are very real, but who is the judge a dream while in the dualistic state of existence. Where do dreams exist when you are physically talking about something in an abstract realm? Why has most of humanity out casted dreams as being merely of fantasy? Here we are on the verge of a union between two dualistic states; Have you made your dreams a reality?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you mean like binary which arbiter alluded to earlier? if this is indicative of "nondualism" then i can't say im particularly enthused by what it has to offer as an overarcing ism.

No way man my computer uses non-dualistic quantum states instead of 1s and 0s. For example I simultaneously replied and didn't reply to your post.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN if this is indicative of "nondualism" then i can't say im particularly enthused by what it has to offer as an overarcing ism.

lol, that's non indicative. 'non dualism' is a very broad term obviously, and that is a bunch of malarkey. This isn't a religion or a theory - it's a broad philosophical stance that says there is no difference between the observer and the observed. Some religions happen to have this position, and some scientists do as well. Anything else beyond this is mere interpretation, whether it comes from insight or from looking at a dial of some instrument, it all is filtered through the mind as such can only ever be a concept.

domesticated, your play on words is cute, but seriously irrelevant, since the large part of the cutting edge scientific community is most likely not catholic, nor does homosexuality or political party have anything to do with anything.

however, investigating the intrinstic role of an observer in a scientific experiment as part of a larger total system seems much more relevant...

i'm not sure what you are trying to prove, other than it is possible to replace words in a quote, and that is something no one has contested here.

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Originally posted by nefardec lol, that's non indicative. 'non dualism' is a very broad term obviously, and that is a bunch of malarkey. This isn't a religion or a theory - it's a broad philosophical stance that says there is no difference between the observer and the observed. Some religions happen to have this position, and some scientists do as well. Anything else beyond this is mere interpretation, whether it comes from insight or from looking at a dial of some instrument, it all is filtered through the mind as such can only ever be a concept. domesticated, your play on words is cute, but seriously irrelevant, since the large part of the cutting edge scientific community is most likely not catholic, nor does homosexuality or political party have anything to do with anything. however, investigating the intrinstic role of an observer in a scientific experiment as part of a larger total system seems much more relevant... i'm not sure what you are trying to prove, other than it is possible to replace words in a quote, and that is something no one has contested here.

I'm contesting that non-dualism could have an effect on the physical output of science as a whole.

So far, you're yet to provide any examples of this.

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Originally posted by astroboy No way man my computer uses non-dualistic quantum states instead of 1s and 0s. For example I simultaneously replied and didn't reply to your post.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

It's all very well to laugh now that you've altered the outcome by observing it..

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