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quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB Like Gouryella wasn't real trance, again IMO nonsence.

It wasn't. It was closer to commercial euro-dance with cheesy "big room" leads of that time more than to anything else.
Granted Ferry's stuff wasn't bad, it just wasn't trance.

quote:

Wonder if any producer of that time would agree, also because there still was development in equipment.

You can still find enough rants of Vath, Lieb and the likes about how trance was killed/became too commercial during that time. Actually the reason why most of trance artists left the scene in the first half of 00s.
There wasn't any real development in equipment either, vintage analogue synths will hold the top spot when it comes to the quality of electronic sound - VSTs just made music-making too accessible for the untalented masses.

quote:

A more valid point would be that you like trance of that time better.

There is no trance of that time or trance of this time. There are only shades of quality and the amount of commercialization.
Like Union Jack - Papillon. It's from 2009 and it's perfectly trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB Like Gouryella wasn't real trance, again IMO nonsence.

It wasn't.
I recall an interview with the trance duo Earthbound, who were big here in Sweden in the end of 90s. Their track One Nation Trance Nation did well here on the radios: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdDRPZVgxS0

In the interview they said "most of the stuff being made today, including our own tracks are not real trance, now we are gonna play a mix with real trance." Then they banged out a wicked set with Odysee of Noises - Firedance, Vernons Wonderland among others.

Earthbound did a one wicked track though.
Especially when TB303 bassline kicks in in the middle - ooooh.



A somewhat bitter irony is how on discogs it is classified as EuroHouse when it's more Trance than many things classified as Trance there.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 Then they banged out a wicked set with Odysee of Noises - Firedance, Vernons Wonderland among others.

Do you know if there is a download of that available anywhere? Firedance is just great, and so is Vernon's Wonderland. iTunes has put some Eye - Q online, and a few tracks of Vernon's, but still no Wonderland

One Nation Trance Nation reminds me of something on Tranceport.

And yeah, Gouryella wasn't real trance. I like it, but not real trance

quote:

Originally posted by Mattinsanity earlier trance from 92-95 was "real" trance.

More like 90-96, imo. I like to think that trance started after the Berlin Wall came down.

Section X - Atlantis (Man With No Name Remix)

It's not even on Youtube...

quote:

Originally posted by identity7 Earthbound did a one wicked track though. Especially when TB303 bassline kicks in in the middle - ooooh. A somewhat bitter irony is how on discogs it is classified as EuroHouse when it's more Trance than many things classified as Trance there.

I recommend you to check out their album:
http://www.discogs.com/Earthbound-E...d/release/27167

It contains several really nice tracks. Especially on CD2 which have "real" trance versions of some of their most famous tracks. It also includes a really nice hidden track.

Video is named wrong, it's Transmanic not Transmaniac.

Probably very politically incorrect, but since this is all very personal anyhow, I had to post this one. For me, personally, this is one of the best trance tracks (and Kay Cee's mix) ever made.

quote:

Originally posted by floyd741 More like 90-96, imo. I like to think that trance started after the Berlin Wall came down.

Real trance has never stopped being made.

quote:

Originally posted by RebeL9 It wasn't. I recall an interview with the trance duo Earthbound, who were big here in Sweden in the end of 90s. Their track One Nation Trance Nation did well here on the radios: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdDRPZVgxS0 In the interview they said "most of the stuff being made today, including our own tracks are not real trance, now we are gonna play a mix with real trance." Then they banged out a wicked set with Odysee of Noises - Firedance, Vernons Wonderland among others.

Sorry, but I think it's not always clear if people are talking about feelings or opinion or technical. I rather see the technical approach, but I can understand what they mean with 'real trance'. That trance became more popular and by that more track sounded more or less the same don't make those track less trance. Yes they sound different and certain rhythms and instrument were popular at a certain time. Nation Trance Nation has a sound which was very popular back then which started a few year earlier.
You can find this back in tracks of DJ Quicksilver, Brooklyn Bounce, Red5 and more producers with a very commercial aim.

Is this a trance track which was made in the real trance period but wasn't real trance then?



By the way, there was a lot of variation in Trance, I guess there is too much focus on certain track of that time. IMO too much to ID those track as 'real trance' or not. I often imagine if I would have liked a modern trance track back in the 90's. Most of the time the answer is "Hell yeh".


Here another unreal trance track then of 1997 (used to be played a bit faster):



And then compared to DJ Dave Davis - Transfiguration 1996 even with Bonzai bass to me is real trance.

Do many of todays track sound less trance then this, well not to me really:

quote:

Originally posted by identity7 It wasn't. It was closer to commercial euro-dance with cheesy "big room" leads of that time more than to anything else. Granted Ferry's stuff wasn't bad, it just wasn't trance.

If you had a time machine you could go and check that. I can't remember anyone telling that wasn't trance back then really. Easy to say that many years later it's was closer to something else. But then many Bonzai track were closer to Happy Hardcore I guess...

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There wasn't any real development in equipment either, vintage analogue synths will hold the top spot when it comes to the quality of electronic sound - VSTs just made music-making too accessible for the untalented masses.

I think VST's was much later. The number of tracks playing together and synthesizers steered by pc's really developped in the 90's. Don't think there is an need for more since 2000. In the 90's for sure there was need for more.

quote:

There is no trance of that time or trance of this time. There are only shades of quality and the amount of commercialization. Like Union Jack - Papillon. It's from 2009 and it's perfectly trance.

Quality depend on how you look at it and there certainly is trance of a certain time, but it sort of ended changing, developing. But why would that be?
Just one track is needed to prove that 'real trance' is still being made, but I think there are many more. But I rather call it trance which could have been made in the mid 90's. I like Papillon, but did it blow me away and make me say "Yes, after 15 year a real trance track"? Guess not.

Imagine you could timewarp Corderoy - Kyree (Club mix) to 1994. I refuse to believe people wouldn't have found this amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB Imagine you could timewarp Corderoy - Kyree (Club mix) to 1994. I refuse to believe people wouldn't have found this amazing.

This doesn't have anything to do with the discussion about "real trance". Or are you saying that since people would like it back then it has to be real trance? Doesn't make sense to me

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-MB If you had a time machine you could go and check that. I can't remember anyone telling that wasn't trance back then really. Easy to say that many years later it's was closer to something else. But then many Bonzai track were closer to Happy Hardcore I guess...

Oliver Lieb hated on Robert Miles since '96 when he released Children and called it the new pop-format that killed trance (knowing how many people jumped on the bandwagon cloning Miles there is some truth to that). You can find that in nearly every interview of his since 96.

And yeah Ferry was only called trance due to marketing - in the exactly same way why Miles (before he quit), Tiesto, Armin and what they spin now is called trance. It's a big commercial name, it's cool, people like what's cool and they of course don't understand what is trance so it's win-win.

quote:

I think VST's was much later. The number of tracks playing together and synthesizers steered by pc's really developped in the 90's. Don't think there is an need for more since 2000. In the 90's for sure there was need for more.

In terms of sound the development ended long long ago. In terms of accessibility - of course it became better. With side-effects that we can see now.

quote:

Quality depend on how you look at it and there certainly is trance of a certain time, but it sort of ended changing, developing.

Quality depends on how you make it. When everything sounds the same (e.g. modern "trance") it isn't quality, it's just MTV-of-electronic-music. There is format and people copy it again again and again.
Just because it has 4/4 beat and a melody doesn't make it trance.

"Developing" is when something becomes better or evolve. Trance just died, no amount of J00F's, Ultimae's and Platipus releases will save it. And what you call "trance" stands in the same place for like 7+ years now. I only hope the name will die too. Trance became a dirty word, I know people who go like "trance? Isn't it like that ugly pop with songs and stuff, meh". Can't blame them.

quote:

Just one track is needed to prove that 'real trance' is still being made, but I think there are many more.

It's being made and there is more, but it's just a very small fraction of how it should be.

quote:

But I rather call it trance which could have been made in the mid 90's. I like Papillon, but did it blow me away and make me say "Yes, after 15 year a real trance track"? Guess not.

Of course it shouldn't blow you away. Trance is not about standing in the club putting hands up in the air for 5 minutes during long boring breakdowns. Date has nothing to do with it, trance is just a different music from what you may like.

This thread is made every year or so with the same tracks posted over and over again, although with a progressive shift (i think) towards the more melodic/epic stuff (leading to the fact hat classic trance is ultimately forgotten? Possibly)


And lets not forget some classic trance names like Resistance D, Microbots, Cybordelics, Cygnus-X and Brainchild, Pete Namlook projects and genrally all the Harthouse, MFS, Office records, Eye-Q, Superstition stuff bla bla bla



Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true. "Classic Trance" is surely dead, meaning that the style of those tracks is not made nowadays. But genres are not steady and rigid entities but abstract concepts and memes that dynamically change. Trance has changed from the "classic" german sound to "epic", "melodic", "euphoric", "uplifting"-call it what you want- in the same way that rock'n'roll and elvis has changed to rolling stones, to pink floyd, to joy division,to nirvana, to my bloody valentine, to sigur ros to countless completely different things which come under the "rock" umbrella, some completely different and contrasting to what "real" rock'n'roll was all about. In trance, some guys were paying more attention to the melodic/arpeggio aspect. Further "euroish" and "brit-prog" influences were progressively making the sound more melodic, leading to the sound that we call "epic" or "uplifting" trance today. The end-result is very different from the "classic german stuff", but it is still a type of trance music since it partly developed from that early genre. No one would say that the dramatic and slow shoegaze rock (in which music is made through heavy wall-of-sound type distortions) is in any way related (musically ad conceptually) to early rhythmical "feel-good" rock'n'roll. But no one would also argue that shoegaze-rock is not "true" rock". It is not the classic rock'' roll-sure- but it is a type of rock music since the general consensus has agreed on that as the rock influences were evolving through-out the years. So i wouldn't say that modern "epic" stuff is not "real" trance, it is just not "classic trance". Its s different sub-genre that evolved form that early now-dead genre. Like Miles Davis "cool jazz" which is not very similar to early "swing-jazz" and countless other examples. It happens in music all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN MFS

fuck yeah

quote:

Originally posted by Mattinsanity earlier trance from 92-95 was "real" trance. the rest after that were fabricated formulatic BS.

Yes, YES, show the world how much of pretentious fanboy you are in shouting out your exclusivistic claims.
All goes according to plan.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN This thread is made every year or so with the same tracks posted over and over again, although with a progressive shift (i think) towards the more melodic/epic stuff (leading to the fact hat classic trance is ultimately forgotten? Possibly) And lets not forget some classic trance names like Resistance D, Microbots, Cybordelics, Cygnus-X and Brainchild, Pete Namlook projects and genrally all the Harthouse, MFS, Office records, Eye-Q, Superstition stuff bla bla bla Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true. "Classic Trance" is surely dead, meaning that the style of those tracks is not made nowadays. But genres are not steady and rigid entities but abstract concepts and memes that dynamically change. Trance has changed from the "classic" german sound to "epic", "melodic", "euphoric", "uplifting"-call it what you want- in the same way that rock'n'roll and elvis has changed to rolling stones, to pink floyd, to joy division,to nirvana, to my bloody valentine, to sigur ros to countless completely different things which come under the "rock" umbrella, some completely different and contrasting to what "real" rock'n'roll was all about. In trance, some guys were paying more attention to the melodic/arpeggio aspect. Further "euroish" and "brit-prog" influences were progressively making the sound more melodic, leading to the sound that we call "epic" or "uplifting" trance today. The end-result is very different from the "classic german stuff", but it is still a type of trance music since it partly developed from that early genre. No one would say that the dramatic and slow shoegaze rock (in which music is made through heavy wall-of-sound type distortions) is in any way related (musically ad conceptually) to early rhythmical "feel-good" rock'n'roll. But no one would also argue that shoegaze-rock is not "true" rock". It is not the classic rock'' roll-sure- but it is a type of rock music since the general consensus has agreed on that as the rock influences were evolving through-out the years. So i wouldn't say that modern "epic" stuff is not "real" trance, it is just not "classic trance". Its s different sub-genre that evolved form that early now-dead genre. Like Miles Davis "cool jazz" which is not very similar to early "swing-jazz" and countless other examples. It happens in music all the time.

Best post i read in this thread.
I clearly shows why many of the "real" trance propagators are just exclusivist elitistic pricks.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN This thread is made every year or so with the same tracks posted over and over again, although with a progressive shift (i think) towards the more melodic/epic stuff (leading to the fact hat classic trance is ultimately forgotten? Possibly) And lets not forget some classic trance names like Resistance D, Microbots, Cybordelics, Cygnus-X and Brainchild, Pete Namlook projects and genrally all the Harthouse, MFS, Office records, Eye-Q, Superstition stuff bla bla bla Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true. "Classic Trance" is surely dead, meaning that the style of those tracks is not made nowadays. But genres are not steady and rigid entities but abstract concepts and memes that dynamically change. Trance has changed from the "classic" german sound to "epic", "melodic", "euphoric", "uplifting"-call it what you want- in the same way that rock'n'roll and elvis has changed to rolling stones, to pink floyd, to joy division,to nirvana, to my bloody valentine, to sigur ros to countless completely different things which come under the "rock" umbrella, some completely different and contrasting to what "real" rock'n'roll was all about. In trance, some guys were paying more attention to the melodic/arpeggio aspect. Further "euroish" and "brit-prog" influences were progressively making the sound more melodic, leading to the sound that we call "epic" or "uplifting" trance today. The end-result is very different from the "classic german stuff", but it is still a type of trance music since it partly developed from that early genre. No one would say that the dramatic and slow shoegaze rock (in which music is made through heavy wall-of-sound type distortions) is in any way related (musically ad conceptually) to early rhythmical "feel-good" rock'n'roll. But no one would also argue that shoegaze-rock is not "true" rock". It is not the classic rock'' roll-sure- but it is a type of rock music since the general consensus has agreed on that as the rock influences were evolving through-out the years. So i wouldn't say that modern "epic" stuff is not "real" trance, it is just not "classic trance". Its s different sub-genre that evolved form that early now-dead genre. Like Miles Davis "cool jazz" which is not very similar to early "swing-jazz" and countless other examples. It happens in music all the time.

Best post in this thrad. Not much to add here.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true. "Classic Trance" is surely dead, meaning that the style of those tracks is not made nowadays. But genres are not steady and rigid entities but abstract concepts and memes that dynamically change.

It's not anywhere near as simple as that.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN This thread is made every year or so with the same tracks posted over and over again, although with a progressive shift (i think) towards the more melodic/epic stuff (leading to the fact hat classic trance is ultimately forgotten? Possibly) And lets not forget some classic trance names like Resistance D, Microbots, Cybordelics, Cygnus-X and Brainchild, Pete Namlook projects and genrally all the Harthouse, MFS, Office records, Eye-Q, Superstition stuff bla bla bla Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true. "Classic Trance" is surely dead, meaning that the style of those tracks is not made nowadays. But genres are not steady and rigid entities but abstract concepts and memes that dynamically change. Trance has changed from the "classic" german sound to "epic", "melodic", "euphoric", "uplifting"-call it what you want- in the same way that rock'n'roll and elvis has changed to rolling stones, to pink floyd, to joy division,to nirvana, to my bloody valentine, to sigur ros to countless completely different things which come under the "rock" umbrella, some completely different and contrasting to what "real" rock'n'roll was all about. In trance, some guys were paying more attention to the melodic/arpeggio aspect. Further "euroish" and "brit-prog" influences were progressively making the sound more melodic, leading to the sound that we call "epic" or "uplifting" trance today. The end-result is very different from the "classic german stuff", but it is still a type of trance music since it partly developed from that early genre. No one would say that the dramatic and slow shoegaze rock (in which music is made through heavy wall-of-sound type distortions) is in any way related (musically ad conceptually) to early rhythmical "feel-good" rock'n'roll. But no one would also argue that shoegaze-rock is not "true" rock". It is not the classic rock'' roll-sure- but it is a type of rock music since the general consensus has agreed on that as the rock influences were evolving through-out the years. So i wouldn't say that modern "epic" stuff is not "real" trance, it is just not "classic trance". Its s different sub-genre that evolved form that early now-dead genre. Like Miles Davis "cool jazz" which is not very similar to early "swing-jazz" and countless other examples. It happens in music all the time.

Exactly what I'm trying to say, just you're better in that. Totally agree with the rock example too.
(Didn't recognize you at first because of you new avatar

Think the subject needs to be repeated otherwise people really are going to believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by identity7 Oliver Lieb hated on Robert Miles since '96 when he released Children and called it the new pop-format that killed trance (knowing how many people jumped on the bandwagon cloning Miles there is some truth to that). You can find that in nearly every interview of his since 96.

That he hated Miles again doesn't make it not trance at all.

quote:

And yeah Ferry was only called trance due to marketing - in the exactly same way why Miles (before he quit), Tiesto, Armin and what they spin now is called trance. It's a big commercial name, it's cool, people like what's cool and they of course don't understand what is trance so it's win-win.

Trance wasn't even that popular when Tiesto and Ferry started. Marketing as we now know it IMO again came later.

quote:

In terms of sound the development ended long long ago. In terms of accessibility - of course it became better. With side-effects that we can see now.

No, there is more then just sound. PC's could steer synthesizers in a way which was very difficult to do manually. Then also the number of simultaneous tracks increased to a level there wasn't demand for more.

quote:

It's being made and there is more, but it's just a very small fraction of how it should be.

It was a small fraction back then too.

quote:

Of course it shouldn't blow you away. Trance is not about standing in the club putting hands up in the air for 5 minutes during long boring breakdowns. Date has nothing to do with it, trance is just a different music from what you may like.

I meant "blow me away" like that's one of the best ever or e.g. top200. Has nothing to do with hands in the air.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Now what you are saying about "real trance" dying has been said countless times before in this forum and it is to a certain extend true.

(not quoting the whole thing as it is unnecessary)

I disagree with what you said about new trance still being real trance (I hope I understood what you were saying correctly). I believe that what is being release now is not trance for one simple reason: it is not entrancing. Trance should be entrancing. I can listen to some classic trance and be entranced because that's the way it's made, it's repetitive in a way that becomes hypnotic. Newer trance is only really exciting (if even that) during the breakdown or the anthem, the rest is just DJ friendly filler. The music being called trance now just doesn't achieve the goal of being entrancing therefore it is not real trance.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trance-MB
That he hated Miles again doesn't make it not trance at all. /QUOTE]

No, it doesn't make it not trance. The fact that it wasn't trance makes it not trance.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews No, it doesn't make it not trance. The fact that it wasn't trance makes it not trance.

Begging the question fallacy. Sorry man, but you're really bad at this. Besides, Children was originally signed to Platipus which should give it back what old-school cred Lieb took away.

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