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-- State of the Union
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Originally posted by DjWhooCares ...awaits for the 17sss rebuttal

Yeah, I was all excited for that, too.

who is this Obama man?

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Originally posted by boris_the_bear who is this Obama man?

are you saying ukraine is 100 years behind in news broadcasting, or are you just being a smart ass ?

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Originally posted by idoru Because a 2009 4Q GDP growth of 5.7%, the fastest pace in the last six years, definitely isn't an example of something getting better in the last year. Yeah, we sure fucking failed hard on improving the economy, didn't we?

Before you wet yourself over the surface numbers, read the fine print. First of all, about 65% of that number came from a slowdown in the liquidation of inventories, which means the actual growth was 2.2%.

This is the same reporting organization that estimated Q3 GDP at 3.5% growth. Later they had to revise that number downward twice, to the same 2.2% that remains in Q4 after eliminating inventory manipulation.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35141739

The inventory accounting is a one-time deal according to the linked article, so watch for the numbers to slide back down next quarter. Housing sales were reported downward another 7.6% last month (from the 16% drop in November), foreclosures rose again last month, 48 states still have more people jobless or taking unemployment checks than each previous month (85,000 in December alone), and businesses are still not hiring.

But yeah!! Economy looks awesome!

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Originally posted by Moongoose In general people dont know whats best for them, not just americans. And sadly (for you) yes, it takes intelectuals, smart people, educated people, elite if you want to call them that to make the right calls for the rest of them. I dont want a plumber in charge of the economy, i want someone who knows whats going on. The plumbers common sense of whats best wont work very well when its time to make a choice that will effect a mass of people. On to the second point if i remember the debate correctly that 250k that youre so upset about is not the amount of money that the business brings in but the amount you yourself earn. And if i would agree that taxing a business that brings in more than 250k a year would be ridiculous taxing an individual who brings in more than 250 a year is perfectly reasonable.

No, politicians are elected to represent those who put them in office, not decide on their own once in office what they deem is "best for them". That's not how a representative republic works. And, yes the taxing does apply to business who bring in a gross profit of $250K.

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How about republicans loosing a seat that hasnt been held by a democrat since the civil war...that has got to hurt and has to mean something as well. And everyone of his agendas lacks majority support? Seriously? Because i could name a few that are very popular.

Is that really as big as Massachusetts having Ted Kennedy's seat go to a Republican 6 months after his death, in the bluest state? Or as big as Republican governors getting elected in two states that went heavily in Obama's favor? Obama went to all 3 states to campaign for the Democrats and it had the reverse effect.

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Seriously, lay off the drugs. Peslosi and Reid radicals? What have they done that is remotely radical? On their best of days they are at most centre left.

LOL! You've lost it... officially. Check voting records for god's sake.

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And yes people dont like whats being presented now...they did like what was being presented in the beginning though...before it was butchered and watered down to appease the republicans for some hope of bipartisanship. Which was doomed to fail from the beginning anyway...the dems should know by now that thats not the game the republicans play.

"Bipartisanship" for Democrats means nothing more than Republicans making the concessions. Tell me who the John McCain of the Democrat party is, that walks across the aisle on the regular? Once upon a time Joe Leiberman was that guy, but he got booted from his own party and had to run as in Independant to get re-elected.

Fiscal Republicans are just like their religious base, everything is based on blind faith and not in the real world. Its pointless to argue with people like Kevin because they live in a dream world where they expect it will be like their lives and everything can be handed to them and they wont have to pay for anything.

Yep. Thats true. They want to have all the good parts of government like a strong national defense and the public services they think are useful but they don't want to spend a penny of their own money on it.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Fiscal Republicans are just like their religious base, everything is based on blind faith and not in the real world. Its pointless to argue with people like Kevin because they live in a dream world where they expect it will be like their lives and everything can be handed to them and they wont have to pay for anything. Yep. Thats true. They want to have all the good parts of government like a strong national defense and the public services they think are useful but they don't want to spend a penny of their own money on it.

Sorry Nou, but you're projecting now. I've been where you are... with textbooks, media, and 15 years or so of academia being 99% of my understanding of life. But I have graduated from that insulated life and live/work in the real world. I own a business and I am responsible for the livlihood of several employees. You have no fucking clue what that's like. And I put in the time to be where I am... never took a dime from anyone, or expeced it. But you understand better than me about real responsibility and business and how to live in the real world right?

Usually you're pretty cool but I take exception to your statement that "I expect everything to be handed to me and shouldn't have to pay for anything"; that is much more along the lines of what a welfare case who "expects" free health care, free unemployment checks for 92 weeks, and so on. I am the complete opposite of that. I pay my motherfucking taxes and I fully understand the importance of doing so to support an effective government. What I don't like is an ever increasing tax burden that kills my ability to grow my business... which would allow me to provide more jobs for people. I feel sorry for you man. Time to move out of mom's basement.

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Originally posted by The17sss Sorry Nou, but you're projecting now. I've been where you are... with textbooks, media, and 15 years or so of academia being 99% of my understanding of life. But I have graduated from that insulated life and live/work in the real world. I own a business and I am responsible for the livlihood of several employees. You have no fucking clue what that's like. And I put in the time to be where I am... never took a dime from anyone, or expeced it. But you understand better than me about real responsibility and business and how to live in the real world right? Usually you're pretty cool but I take exception to your statement that "I expect everything to be handed to me and shouldn't have to pay for anything"; that is much more along the lines of what a welfare case who "expects" free health care, free unemployment checks for 92 weeks, and so on. I am the complete opposite of that. I pay my motherfucking taxes and I fully understand the importance of doing so to support an effective government. What I don't like is an ever increasing tax burden that kills my ability to grow my business... which would allow me to provide more jobs for people. I feel sorry for you man. Time to move out of mom's basement.

You are also from the South.

My father is a business owner (well he is a full partner in his law firm) and you know, he has never complained. He also has employees to take care of. He gladly votes every every school bond, votes solidly blue (though he does support bi-party candidates for state AG), votes down public initiatives for tax reform laws that screw the state, and makes probably more than you can imagine, but feels a social responsibility to give back as much as he needs to and not complain. If anything he complains that not as much is given back and we live in Washington State. For disclosures sake, he does represent public institutions (though his practice is private), and in turn directly benefits from them being payed more, because that means they can afford his firms legal skills.

Anyway, you claim that you want the government to support your growth of business, but you'd strike down things like health care reform that would potentially allows businesses to save lots of money on providing health care for their employees (you do that right, I am not sure, I mean North Carolina, they seem like the type to fuck their employees, I mean, they are just employees right?).

Also if you are that heavily burdened by the government then you are probably not doing something right someplace else or your fears are unfounded and actually not a real issue.

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Originally posted by The17sss never took a dime from anyone, or expeced it.

this is a common fallacy you�ll see the blinded right bring out on occasion. As if they are their own self-sufficient island, and nothing that has ever benefitted them that has come from anywhere other their own damned hard work. lol. they wilfully ignore the social, economic & political infrastructure that exists that enables them to �do it on their own�.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You are also from the South. My father is a business owner (well he is a full partner in his law firm) and you know, he has never complained. He also has employees to take care of. He gladly votes every every school bond, votes solidly blue (though he does support bi-party candidates for state AG), votes down public initiatives for tax reform laws that screw the state, and makes probably more than you can imagine, but feels a social responsibility to give back as much as he needs to and not complain. If anything he complains that not as much is given back and we live in Washington State. For disclosures sake, he does represent public institutions (though his practice is private), and in turn directly benefits from them being payed more, because that means they can afford his firms legal skills. Anyway, you claim that you want the government to support your growth of business, but you'd strike down things like health care reform that would potentially allows businesses to save lots of money on providing health care for their employees

I'm originally from Boston dickhead. Then I grew up in the Tampa, FL area during my adolescence (Florida is not like "the south" and is not part of "the bible belt"... more northern transplants than anything).

You are not your father... I'm sure he's a fine businessman, but that doesn't mean that you get it or understand; I've flown in airplanes my whole life and played some pretty realistic video games, but I'm wise enough to know that I can't actually fly a real one. Dude, as a business owner, I don't support THIS current plan because it will jack up my taxes. I'd have to pay thousands more per person to match the mandates, yet all my employees have great plans that cover everything; it will unnecessarily make providing health care so much more expensive than it already is, that we'd be forced to either: A) fire 1 or 2 people, or B) dump our coverage completely and make people go on the government plan... which is by design of course.

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(you do that right, I am not sure, I mean North Carolina, they seem like the type to fuck their employees, I mean, they are just employees right?). Also if you are that heavily burdened by the government then you are probably not doing something right someplace else or your fears are unfounded and actually not a real issue.

Fuck you. You're a pathetic fucking loser.. and you know it. I care deeply about my employees... who are you, and where the hell do you get off being judgemental about me on something like that? You don't know me, our the dynamic between me and my employees. All that nonsense you've let soak into your brain over the years about evil corporations probably makes you believe that business owners don't give a shit about their workers.

The tax burden is what it is... higest corporate tax burden in the world. We aren't a 500 employee outfit with millions of dollars in profits, we are just a group of honest people trying to make a living and provide a service. God damn you're one stupid piece of shit.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN this is a common fallacy you�ll see the blinded right bring out on occasion. As if they are their own self-sufficient island, and nothing that has ever benefitted them that has come from anywhere other their own damned hard work. lol. they wilfully ignore the social, economic & political infrastructure that exists that enables them to �do it on their own�.

holy hair-splitting. you know what I meant.

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Originally posted by The17sss God damn you're one stupid piece of shit.

So do you cover physical, mental, eye and dental health coverage?

Yay, Kev's gonna snap again!

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Originally posted by The17sss holy hair-splitting. you know what I meant.

Actually big kev, im not sure that I do. I think emphasising government money spent on �welfare� and ignoring the billions that goes either to business welfare or into the structures that enable business to function proficiently, is a little disingenuous. And I picked you up on it because it IS a common misconception espoused by those that subscribe closely to minimal government rhetoric.

But, having said that im glad you appreciate that government does sometimes shell out the hard-earned for the deserving welfare bludgers, rather than just those irritating and useless drains on society, poor people.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby So do you cover physical, mental, eye and dental health coverage?

I said everything didn't I? Only a stupid fuck would ask that question. Everything means everything!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Actually big kev, im not sure that I do. I think emphasising government money spent on �welfare� and ignoring the billions that goes either to business welfare or into the structures that enable business to function proficiently, is a little disingenuous. And I picked you up on it because it IS a common misconception espoused by those that subscribe closely to minimal government rhetoric. But, having said that im glad you appreciate that government does sometimes shell out the hard-earned for the deserving welfare bludgers, rather than just those irritating and useless drains on society, poor people.

I see your point man, I understand. I know I'm fortunate to live in a society that provides such an opportunity and infrastructure to allow me to get where I am. My fault for sounding obtuse about that. Being more specific, I paid for my own college by working and I never borrowed money from a bank or person to start up my business. I worked hard for my grades in school, and I work hard now. What bothers me, generally speaking, is when people who live under the same infrastructure and system as me "expect" those who actually work for it to subsidize their lives. I have no problems helping those who truly need it, via portions of our tax dollars... my problem is with those who CAN but WON'T.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Yay, Kev's gonna snap again!

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Originally posted by The17sss I see your point man, I understand. I know I'm fortunate to live in a society that provides such an opportunity and infrastructure to allow me to get where I am. My fault for sounding obtuse about that. Being more specific, I paid for my own college by working and I never borrowed money from a bank or person to start up my business. I worked hard for my grades in school, and I work hard now. What bothers me, generally speaking, is when people who live under the same infrastructure and system as me "expect" those who actually work for it to subsidize their lives. I have no problems helping those who truly need it, via portions of our tax dollars... my problem is with those who CAN but WON'T.

Yay, its always nice to find common ground

Yah, tbh I wasn't even reading most of his shit, I was just trollin trollin trollin.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby ... I was just trollin trollin trollin.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Yah, tbh I wasn't even reading most of his shit, I was just trollin trollin trollin.

if that's the case than I'm sorry for flipping out to that degree; you hit on some pretty personal shit man.

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pkcRAISTLIN: Yay, its always nice to find common ground

Few and far between, but I'll take it

Imagine going to Kevin's restaurant.

"Kevin, I love your spot, man. The beer selection is awesome. Oh shit, turn the volume up. Obama is about to speak on reform."

"OBAMA?! FUCK THAT SOCIALIST PIG, FUCK YOU, AND FUCK YOUR MOTHER!"

Nah its cool man, I am sure you do whats right by your employees, but like I said earlier, both side have a religious view of what is right and what is wrong in terms of how government works with people.

Its not something thats going to change on TA.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Nah its cool man, I am sure you do whats right by your employees, but like I said earlier, both side have a religious view of what is right and what is wrong in terms of how government works with people. Its not something thats going to change on TA.

It's not religious for me... it's purely about the government knowing when to say when in terms of impeding our ability to grow and compete.

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RENZO: Imagine going to Kevin's restaurant. "Kevin, I love your spot, man. The beer selection is awesome. Oh shit, turn the volume up. Obama is about to speak on reform." "OBAMA?! FUCK THAT SOCIALIST PIG, FUCK YOU, AND FUCK YOUR MOTHER!"

That guy never would have made it in... I check all voter registration cards prior to serving alcohol.

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Originally posted by The17sss It's not religious for me... it's purely about the government knowing when to say when in terms of impeding our ability to grow and compete.

I didn't mean that in a literal way. I meant it in terms of adherence to your beliefs.

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