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-- What the flying ****...
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quote:

Originally posted by �Zm�zis I blame Del...

Ohhh..

Now THAT I agree with...









I've never, in my life, argued with as many people as I have on this damned board...

LONG LIVE TOTA!!!

I blame Club Paparazzi 2000, LA Hollywood, Plastique, Orchid and Venus.

Fun times

its good to see people are starting to catch up to what I've been seeing for the last three to four years.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper I blame Club Paparazzi 2000, LA Hollywood, Plastique, Orchid and Venus. Fun times

LOL @ paparazzi and Plastique! hahaha.

Also, easy there Pappa Smurf Chem...

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper I blame Club Paparazzi 2000, LA Hollywood, Plastique, Orchid and Venus. Fun times

definitely fun times. i loved my gino days but i certainly do not miss them one bit.

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller Personally, I just avoid these people and spend my time with those who don't participate in this backwards way of thinking, and who like to have a good time, instead of standing around watching to see if everyone notices how cool they are.

but i neeeeeed to know that you think i am cool!

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck There isn't any "scene" to save though. Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying. The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity. The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now. Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements. They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest. Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

Nothing is the same it once was, so why should the scene be an exception? For some people here the heyday was 2004, but I'm sure for some of the real old-schoolers 2004 was a crock of shit and was nothing compared to the purity that was 1998. Shit is never the way it used to be, and to be complaining about it when you yourself aren't even an active member in the scene is even more ridiculous.

Just face it, you got old, your raving days are behind you now let the kids make the most out of THEIR scene. Yeah to you their scene might seem like balls, but how can you judge what they feel? I'm sure they think every night of theirs is an adventure and soul searching journey, just like you did when you started.

We all have a party life-span (usually lasts 5 years, anything more than that and you need to re-asses your life) where the first few years are the most *magical* and then after a thousand parties its just another night. I'm sure every partier has gone through the same motions, and the people entering the scene now will be complaining in 2015 (thats if the world doesnt end by then) how things just weren't like they used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper I blame Club Paparazzi 2000, LA Hollywood, Plastique, Orchid and Venus. Fun times

Dont forget Money gino boy.

I still have fun...

And I had the misfortune of being at the infamous Hullabaloo stabbing.

Geez, it's almost like saying I was at Altamont.

Part of the reason I still have fun is that each time might be my last. I don't want to be the creepy old guy at the party.

quote:

Originally posted by petro Just face it, you got old, your raving days are behind you now let the kids make the most out of THEIR scene. Yeah to you their scene might seem like balls, but how can you judge what they feel? I'm sure they think every night of theirs is an adventure and soul searching journey, just like you did when you started.

Considering you quoted, then agreed with everything I said, I find this part perplexing as you seemed to get the point.

Of course I'm aware of the differences in eras, the whole thread has been about those differences, but I'm not judging "what they feel".

I even stated they probably find it most enjoyable. I'm not bashing them for their personal journey as a partier, everyone undergoes that same trip whether they drink, do a pill/line, go to a top 40 or a house club.

What I said was their scene is balls, mostly because of the elements that seem to dominate the community as a whole & the pop culture most of them come from as a generation.

Think of how the Jungle scene turned into thuggy trash once the hip-hop posers got a hold of it.

Much like the warehouse people lamented the move into nightclubs, I'm just pointing out that the social elements/ideas that were once prevalent have now been discarded. The mainstream took the turntables and some of the music, and left the rest.

Of course this is all a factor of time, like I previously stated. Doesn't mean I'm not right about the current state of the culture as a whole.

That kid died in 1999 at hullabaloo from an OD. Thats what started sandra poopytello off. I remember because i was outside promoting for DOSE Freakin 99 halloween. Thats the party at the docks that councillor Sandra Bussin and that long gone idiot Tom Jackobek claimed they could hear from the beaches. (when as we came to learn later, it was the islanders bitching)

Thats also a time when i refused to give the cops ID. They asked everyone and i told them basically to fuck off

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 That kid died in 1999 at hullabaloo from an OD. Thats what started sandra poopytello off. I remember because i was outside promoting for DOSE Freakin 99 halloween. Thats the party at the docks that councillor Sandra Bussin and that long gone idiot Tom Jackobek claimed they could hear from the beaches. (when as we came to learn later, it was the islanders bitching)

I love to learn and today the true story was told, thank you sir.

Didn't make sense to me, how would Jungle Room bass rumbled & travelled to all the condos on lakeshore. It was loud and clean, but only the Valve System can produce that power.

RIP Alan

i think that the scene in to is been getting better if anything.

Re: Re: What the flying ****...

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Ive commented manytimes but then digitwaat chimes in with the same get out of the past bullshit...

Nope, I agree with Rob. He is speaking of a very different phenomena than what you reference in your old fogey fist-shaking "nothing will ever be like the Guvernment was in 2000" rants.

In Rob's parlance, this would be an instance of the bar crowd being assimilated into the club scene. And if I recall correctly, we all predicted this would happen 4-5 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by petro We all have a party life-span (usually lasts 5 years, anything more than that and you need to re-asses your life)

It's this that pretty much renders the rest of what you're saying full of shee-it.

A good number of the partiers I know have been at what they're doing for at least a decade, and most of them still love hitting the dancefloor and getting their groove on, while still managing to lead otherwise fulfilling and relatively successful lives. Since when does dancing and letting off some stream have some magical window of opportunity that closes once you reach a certain age?

My other query is to those who claim that electronic music has went and gone all mainstream in Toronto and whatnot. If that's the case, then why don't we have the same size parties as the ones that have been going on in most major European cities for ages, and why don't we have outdoor, multiple day electronic music festivals like they do?

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno It's this that pretty much renders the rest of what you're saying full of shit. The partiers I know (most of whom happen to be other DJs) have been at what they're doing for at least a decade, and most of them still love hitting the dancefloor and getting their groove on. Since when does dancing and letting off some stream have some magical window of opportunity that closes once you reach a certain age? My other query is to those who claim that electronic music has went and gone all mainstream in Toronto and whatnot. If that's the case, then why don't we have the same size parties as the ones that have been going on in most major European cities for ages, and why don't we have outdoor, multiple day electronic music festivals like they do?

To be fair, for the majority he is somewhat right. If he qualified his statement with hard-core partying, or era of peak attendance, it's not that outlandish a claim.

As to the 2nd point, I would argue that EDM isn't mainstream so much as the audience experiencing it is. Certainly EDM is more accepted thanks to commercial exposure, and you are as likely to hear a Deadmau5 track @ a generic top40 club as you are in a set.

It's kind of funny actually that a Top40 "Dj" with his laptop & itunes spins a cross-genre set that sounds like it came from Fly.

Part of the issue with the new audience is that they aren't walking in with a need or want to be educated. Not that a ton of people aren't grabbed by it and delve deeper, but that community has dwindled considerably which is why there isn't the new blood that people have moaned about as long as 6+yrs.

EDM for the most part is just another track in the popular soundscape now. I also do feel bad if those that are still carrying the flag with great local events feel disparaged, as I'm sure things aren't completely dead and they no doubt enjoy their community.

I've tried to stay out of the EDM in pop culture debate, as mostly my comments are about the community and ideals that used to set genuine EDM heads apart from the rest of "clubbers".

As for the large parties it's venue space + capital and the market.

With the political headaches and the stigma of raves in the bylaws it's hard to get an EDM only event treated fairly as a modern concert.

Unless a promoter/investor wants to fight all those battles in order to make a profit (if that's even possible) for what amounts to a big club night, you won't see one anytime soon. Risk/reward and all that.

i said it once and i'll say it again and again. when system closed the doors that was it !!

quote:

Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty i said it once and i'll say it again and again. when system closed the doors that was it !!

I would say after the last set of "renovations" about 6 months or so before hand.

The giant statue in the back room, the loss of the enclosed side lounge, and the front room with the red lights/white walls just gutted the vibe of the club.

Same mistake Industry made, you do not fuck with your lounge areas without replacing them.

The "Champagne Lounge" (before the Chris Rock joke) ruined that place.

To expand on the "big parties" debate, I would also point the finger of blame directly @ the Guvernment.

That place pulls thousands through it's doors twice a week minimum (or used too).

People don't realize that there are certain people that control the pool of bookings/talent, something that was a big part of the battles between The Guvernment & other major clubs which lead or contributed to the struggles and demise of places like System, Turbo, The Docks, Boa Redux, etc.

Certainly there were a host of other factors, but Guvy controls the scene with an iron pimp hand.

Mike Greco who used to promote those legendary System Fridays that Marc Scaife played said it best "The Guvernment is like the Death Star..they just point this giant laser of cash & boom, your club/event is gone."

They've thrown multiple events each month in this town for a long, long time, and since they control the majority of the $$$ they control the majority of the talent AND client base for EDM.

If someone other than them was to throw a large event, the fact Guv has long driven up the cost of name DJ talent means it would be expensive to bring name talent, if any was available as they used to having booking rights/exclusivity to a lot of names which is why you didn't see them playing elsewhere.

They also suck up the majority of the available cash from the people that would go to a big party, plus they would counter-program your event with their own.

As much as guys like Jayx freak out about the bylaws, politicians aren't the only Guvernment keeping the scene down.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno It's this that pretty much renders the rest of what you're saying full of shee-it. A good number of the partiers I know have been at what they're doing for at least a decade, and most of them still love hitting the dancefloor and getting their groove on, while still managing to lead otherwise fulfilling and relatively successful lives. Since when does dancing and letting off some stream have some magical window of opportunity that closes once you reach a certain age?

What CC said in regards to partying and attendance. To further elaborate the 5 years has nothing to do with age, you can start at 30 or 20, the end result is the same. However, DJs are a an exception to this rule lol.

@ CC - apologies for the tone of my comments, I wasn't out to prove you wrong, just had a little too much coffee and felt like going on a rant.

quote:

Originally posted by petro @ CC - apologies for the tone of my comments, I wasn't out to prove you wrong, just had a little too much coffee and felt like going on a rant.

Now worries, I knew you got the gist of what I was saying with the first half. (which is why I expanded on it to clarify)

Also the debate itself is a recurring one for each time the scene changes, although my main point isn't as simple as "my scene is better than your scene". It's a whole new melting pot of club culture that seems to have forgotten the variety of it's predecessor.

Besides, I'm too old for flame wars.

Well... This discussion has been going on for many hours...

I'm flying to Florida in the am so I can't participate anymore...

Speaking about old school, I'm pissed about missing Oakie on the 6th...

It's good to see a new (old) person who shares many of the same views as me on our little scene...

Hope to meet you someday...

Jaded much?

I think the problem lies more with the fact that you're all getting old! Kidding

Even after my five years of partying, I'm still enjoying it as much as I started. I'm too self absorbed in the life loving aspect to let annoying trends and "posers" really get to me. I do agree with the original post, and some of the stuff that has been said though. Unfortunately I don't think it'll get any better..

quote:

Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty i said it once and i'll say it again and again. when system closed the doors that was it !!

I'd say Industry closing down..and the last Luqid Adrenaline party..

Seriously though, people in the current scene who never got to experience it would probably give up their first born to be able to experience a connected party at the better living center or to be a part of an IDance rally...

Why is there even a debate? The people were nicer, the parties were bigger, better and epic. The music was out of this world...There was a sense of community and a something tangible to be a part of. There was a definite innocence to the whole thing...

We will never be able to experience anything like Woodstock in modern times and I'm not arrogant enough to say "Yes we can, we rule. We're the new generation and newer is ALWAYS better" PUHLEASE.

They were beautiful times and for those that experienced it, it was a treat. Now, the scene is what it is and you don't miss what you never had to begin with. Subsequently the new generation of partier is going to believe THIS is the best.

and a big LOL at people that are so entrenched in the current club culture and managements, who feel the need to defend everything. It just shows that you can't be impartial and realistic.

How can anyone that experienced Industry, System. etc argue that the scene has evolved in a positive way?

^^ I like.

I do feel lucky to have been around at the right time, especially to have been able to go to Stereo from 2000-2004, the best clubbing of my life.

Some of the people in the new school take it the wrong way when they think we're saying "ours was best, yours sucks". It's not like that at all. Make the best of what you have available to you. It's only when you don't that you're missing out.

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