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quote:

Originally posted by chewy dragee I play purely for myself and have a job that pays for all my equipment. But if it was my job I definately would play anything that was required to keep my employer happy.

Pretty much it.

That was a great post David.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael I've been greatly inspired by the rooftop parties that the Culprit guys have been throwing in L.A. and that's not something that has happened around here, to my knowledge. I'm currently working with someone on getting a good rooftop spot to give this a shot here, with the idea that maybe we can start something where there are no preconceived notions about the venue in particular as to what you "should" be hearing.

I feel exactly the same way here. Those guys have been a great inspiration to me and they made me want to do the same thing they are doing for their scene in LA for the scene here in Guatemala. I have some plans and have made some acquaintances with people that might be able to finance what I want to do, but it's been hard to convince them. These are people that work in companies that represent certain liquor brands like Grey Goose, Bacardi, Absolut, etc. and have big budgets for promoting and events but they either prefer to spend it on tacky events with Salsa, Reggeton, and semi-naked dancing girls or work with some of the existing promoters that pretty much only book trance acts, David Guetta, and the likes.

There is a small joint (and it's really small...100 people, tops) that is filled to the brim every day (they open from Tuesday to Saturday) with local DJs that play EDM ranging from trance to house to techno, albeit within what makes the Beatport Top 10 charts. This shows that people are open-minded about EDM in general and that there is a market waiting for someone to really exploit it. It's just that it's more profitable to book Armin van Buuren for an outdoor party with 5,000 people than to book Droog for a smaller party in a more intimate club.

I want to start playing at that club maybe once or twice a month to put my music out there and get people to know me. That way it would be easier to convince someone to spend the cash on booking acts that otherwise would never be booked to play here. One of the reasons I want to play at that club is because it's a place where DJs are given creative freedom to do whatever the hell they want with their time behind the decks and they play there because they really love what they are doing, not for cash as they are not paid a dime for playing. People who go there are there because they want to have a great time in a place with people they know and dance to music they have probably never heard before. I already have an in, just have to lose the stage fright and tell my friend to get me a gig.

In the end, all I want to achieve is to add something new and fresh to the scene while playing the music I love for people who can appreciate it. If at any point I am confronted with a situation where I am told what to play, I am fully prepared to say "Thanks for the opportunity" and go somewhere else. I'm in this because I love the music, not for money, fame, girls, etc. If someone thinks I should be paid, that's awesome but it's only extra.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 WRONG First of all those guys got the power you're referring to by breaking molds not playing what the promoters/clubs tell them to. Aside from that it all comes down to business sense; which 99% of anyone in the industry is clueless about. Maybe you missed my statement that trance is not accepted at all here. So I'm in the same spot you THINK you're in. But difference is i'm smart enough to realize how to fix the problem; while you obviously are much more content playing on the patio and bitching. A few years ago that thought process may have been true but now it's very far from the case. You spin that stuff because you don't know who the talented producers are They listen to Tiesto et all; because he markets his brand better than anyone else to the USA. First of all; being easier doesn't always make it the best option; in fact usually it's the opposite. Second of all it's not a dj's job to decide who gets introduced and who doesn't to edm. Its the job of a dj to play the music they like and believe in to the people who enjoy that music. New listeners will come over time if you had a clue. I started posting sets last year and at first I was only getting 5-6 downloads and now I have been getting between 75-100 per episode of my mix series. You have to understand growth takes time. Playing what everyone else plays makes you a pawn and expendable. But it sounds like you're ok with that. You obviously don't know/understand that I am not just a dj but a top flight producer and also do a good bit of mastering for people as well as my own stuff. But even if I didn't have these other talents your approach is wrong. The best way I can get you to understand is by comparing promoters to women. You can worship them and do everything they want and have a small amount of success or you can be ultra picky and have a great deal of success working with people who want to work with you because they enjoy your music; not because you give a great blowjob and like to eat their ass Or it's because they market themselves better than everyone else. This is a business. Act like it or gtfo.

Answers.

1. Maybe you can Superman, but unfortunately I'm not at that level.

2. It has nothing to do with senses, maybe common sense. If your a newbie at a job, do actually think you can walk up to your boss and ask him for a pay raise. You have to prove to them that you are worthy.

3. Fixing the problem by, oh let me guess, doing your own parties correct. Done that, and I still do that, when my other work (you know my actual career doesn't get in the way. I don't where I play. Hell I'll set in the alley if I have too. Never once did I bitch about a patio. I prefer the outside.

4. I spin everyone's stuff. You have something, send it to me and I'll spin it. He does market himself well, and that is why so many request his stuff.

5. I play what the people want while mixing in off the wall tracks.

6. Producer. Ok now we're getting somewhere. Read one my last posts. I am NOT a producer yet. Therefore without any of my own material I don't have the edge you and other's do.

7. Promoters are more like politicians than women. In the state I'm currently in, I don't have the backing to fire off my mouth to them.

8. Once again, I simply spin.

Wow...

Thanks to Paddy's day I missed this beauty!

You all seem to have calmed down a little but it's good to see a good solid argument which in fairness has actually been pretty tame in terms of abuse.

Glad you lads haven't just stooped to the level of what's sometimes seen in the c0r.

To throw my hat in the ring though. I personally think there are various factors. I am lucky enough to be able to play the music i love (Tech-House, Techno, a sneaky prog track here and there) in the venue i play in. But I also work at a few Silent (headphone) discos where i have played everything from top 40 to old school classics you wouldn't touch with a barge pole!

My point is depending on where and nearly more important who i play in front of I'll change things up. If I'm offered work to play top 40 i'll play top 40. Why, because i need the money and know there are 100 monkeys behind me that will take the job if i don't.

Until i/you make a name for yourself you're pretty restricted on what you can play as let's face it the majority of the public don't have a clue about good EDM. Fact.

If you're an elitest and wont stray from the music you want to play that's completely fine. End of the day though who's going to get paid more money? The top 40 dj will most likely as he's not the one trying to make it big in a niche market.

Anyway i could go on and on.

It's quite simple. We'll always need top 40 dj's. Someone has to do it because it's what the public want. IMO I'm glad someone like TM would be banging out the tunes as from knowing him on here for quite a few years now he seems like a genuinely nice guy. Who cares if he earns his money through playing more mainstream tracks.

I don't, and you shouldn't either.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 W T F Understands his role as a dj? That thought process is what makes it so hard for edm to gain traction globally. It's not the d's role to be a disposable pawn that sucks cock for 200 bucks. Your idea of a dj is extremely flawed and I now understand why currently the market is so overinflated with shat ass untalented people trying to make a quick buck and to get laid.

Wow you sure told me. Here I was thinking that egotistical jerkoff DJ's thinking they were the most important people at the party were the exact opposite of what was needed to help EDM "gain traction globally," but I guess I was wrong. I mean, just look at Portland, the EDM capitol of North America! Clearly we have lots to learn from you guys...

quote:

Originally posted by Sadface Wow you sure told me. Here I was thinking that egotistical jerkoff DJ's thinking they were the most important people at the party were the exact opposite of what was needed to help EDM "gain traction globally," but I guess I was wrong. I mean, just look at Portland, the EDM capitol of North America! Clearly we have lots to learn from you guys...

It's not one or the other. You can play music you like and bend your sound towards yourself without being an egotistical jerkoff. And regardless of what you'd like, a DJ, at a dance party, really is the most important person there. They are in charge of the music and without the music there isn't much else to the party. They can single handedly create a vibe, or kill one.

quote:

Originally posted by bas You know absolutely nothing about the Los Angeles club/dance scene and these posts just reek of it. Passport? I fucking live here you doucher.

fuck

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis It's not one or the other. You can play music you like and bend your sound towards yourself without being an egotistical jerkoff. And regardless of what you'd like, a DJ, at a dance party, really is the most important person there. They are in charge of the music and without the music there isn't much else to the party. They can single handedly create a vibe, or kill one.

You're right about the importance of the DJ. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant to say "egotistical DJ's thinking they're the only person whose taste matters at the party."

Of course you can and should put your own influence on the direction of sound, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the party itself. Mr Fitt seems to think that the party doesn't matter and that its all about what he wants to play, which is obviously a philosophy that I soundly disagree with. My #1 goal when i'm spinning (rarely as that happens these days) is to have people grooving and enjoying themselves. I'm not by myself, i'm with a bunch of other people with their own expectations and its my responsibility to meet them as well as I can. I get WAY more satisfaction from the "great set" comments at the end then from playing some track only I like to an empty or non-moving floor.

As you said, if I didn't want to play a style of music I wouldn't take the gig (never happened cause I like a lot of EDM, but I'd probably refuse to play top 40 lol). I wouldn't show up to the party and start playing something nobody wants to hear.

quote:

Originally posted by Sadface I get WAY more satisfaction from the "great set" comments at the end then from playing some track only I like to an empty or non-moving floor.

You know you can get the same comments by playing only music you like?

lol, everyone in this thread is acting like it's just one way or the other, you have to chose a side, you either play crap that stupid people want to hear and get booked or you play obscure shit in your basement by yourself. That simply isn't the case in the real world and in practice. You can satisfy both, and there is PLENTY of leeway in either direction, lots of in-betweens and compromise to be had.

Another thing I've learned over the years is to never doubt people's intelligence or willingness to be introduced to something new. I try not to 'dumb down' my DJ sets and play what I would consider 'more accessible' music just because I feel like thats what people might prefer. More often than not people are interested and happy to hear something different and fresh.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I try not to 'dumb down' my DJ sets and play what I would consider 'more accessible' music just because I feel like thats what people might prefer. More often than not people are interested and happy to hear something different and fresh.

I wish I could get that feeling when playing out, instead of always feeling like I'm already probably pushing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis You know you can get the same comments by playing only music you like?

Of course, lol. It wouldn't be on my HD if I didn't like it. The key in my sentence was "stuff ONLY I like," which is the wrong attitude. The crowd has to like it too or I'm doing it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael I wish I could get that feeling when playing out, instead of always feeling like I'm already probably pushing it.

Of course, it must be much harder for you in Ohio man, respect! Like I said, everything here is relative to where/who/what.

I've had my fair share of shitty reactions and people just going wtf at the music I play, but you minimize them by understanding whatever audience you are playing for and by avoiding situations where they would not be receptive to what you do.

The bottom line with all that has been said is...
Know the event that you are playing and read the crowd.

Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Of course, it must be much harder for you in Ohio man, respect!

merci beaucoup

quote:

I've had my fair share of shitty reactions and people just going wtf at the music I play, but you minimize them by understanding whatever audience you are playing for and by avoiding situations where they would not be receptive to what you do.

Indeed! It's something I've gotten better at in the past few years, but something that is always actively on my mind when I'm playing. The best thing I've done to minimize that sort of situation is by running my own damn nights.

Bas and/or Clovis, I have a question since you're both in the same area I am. When you guys first started out, were you guys doing it the way you do it now back then? What I mean is before you became established and created a following, was there ever time you had to do it their way? Serious question here, because for all I know I could be going about it the wrong way. At what point did you guys change it up, and say this is what we want to do?

Here's how I'm viewing things, as the new guy. Clovis, let's say for an example you're a club owner. And in your club the music is Hip Hop, Top 40, Kiss FM stuff. Now let's say I frequent your establishment quite often, but in my mind I think your place could benefit with say one night of edm. Any or all genres of edm. I sent you demos, I bugged you about it everytime. Then one day, you decided to bring me in for a try out and see what happens. Now, would you let me get creative or would you Insist on Top 40, or some other form of mainstream? in other words, would you tell me what to play? Remember Clovis, you're an average club owner who really knows nothing about the dance world. Here you an individual myself, no established name, a very small following, would you let me do my own thing?

These are the kind of issues which I deal with when looking for a gig. Because I'm not established, or most of the time it's the stereotype. One place in particular. I'm sure you guys are familiar with V2O in Long Beach. Pretty nice club, which is mostly Hip Hop. A few years ago I noticed that they brought a pair of dance dj's for the patio. Not every night, but a few times a month. So I started sending demos, and talking to the club staff. Came to find out that the owners had placed a ban on us. Turns out the previous guys were more into drinking then doing their job. Make a long story short, that's how they portrayed the edm Dj. After some lobbying and free tickets to concerts they let me come in and prove we aren't that way. Of course they did give me some freedom, but they insisted that I play the mainstream too. I did exactly that, and have performed a few more gigs for them. I haven't been there in a while, so I really don't if someone else got in, or they simply don't do it.

The point I'm trying to make here is, because I'm not established or at the level you guys are at, I have to do the things to get there. If they want to play a certain way, with the potential of future gigs, then that's what I have to do. Maybe the next time around the reigns won't be as tight, and I can have freedom. I like to play different things, I don't like to play the chart stuff all the time, but if that's the way of paying your dues, then that's how I have to do it.

No matter what you play, whether you spin mainstream, house, trance, even hip hop, you're already promoting that genre. If they like it, they'll buy it.

Yes I know I should get out and explore the LA scene. But what is the ratio these days? What level do you look for? I for one don't feel I have what the scene wants. Yet. Soon enough that is the goal. Along with writing, and producing my own material.

Let's write novels.

quote:

Originally posted by enydo Let's write novels.

You know what dude, I'm asking a simple question that is all. Picking the minds of those who have done it. That is all. I'm not asking for favors or anything of the such. Why be an ass.

i rarely browse the dj booth anymore, but this has been an entertaining read.

quote:

Originally posted by djkatmaus You know what dude, I'm asking a simple question that is all. Picking the minds of those who have done it. That is all. I'm not asking for favors or anything of the such. Why be an ass.

Way to overreact, novel-writer.

quote:

Originally posted by djkatmaus Bas and/or Clovis, I have a question since you're both in the same area I am. When you guys first started out, were you guys doing it the way you do it now back then? What I mean is before you became established and created a following, was there ever time you had to do it their way? Serious question here, because for all I know I could be going about it the wrong way. At what point did you guys change it up, and say this is what we want to do? Here's how I'm viewing things, as the new guy. Clovis, let's say for an example you're a club owner. And in your club the music is Hip Hop, Top 40, Kiss FM stuff. Now let's say I frequent your establishment quite often, but in my mind I think your place could benefit with say one night of edm. Any or all genres of edm. I sent you demos, I bugged you about it everytime. Then one day, you decided to bring me in for a try out and see what happens. Now, would you let me get creative or would you Insist on Top 40, or some other form of mainstream? in other words, would you tell me what to play? Remember Clovis, you're an average club owner who really knows nothing about the dance world. Here you an individual myself, no established name, a very small following, would you let me do my own thing? These are the kind of issues which I deal with when looking for a gig. Because I'm not established, or most of the time it's the stereotype. One place in particular. I'm sure you guys are familiar with V2O in Long Beach. Pretty nice club, which is mostly Hip Hop. A few years ago I noticed that they brought a pair of dance dj's for the patio. Not every night, but a few times a month. So I started sending demos, and talking to the club staff. Came to find out that the owners had placed a ban on us. Turns out the previous guys were more into drinking then doing their job. Make a long story short, that's how they portrayed the edm Dj. After some lobbying and free tickets to concerts they let me come in and prove we aren't that way. Of course they did give me some freedom, but they insisted that I play the mainstream too. I did exactly that, and have performed a few more gigs for them. I haven't been there in a while, so I really don't if someone else got in, or they simply don't do it. The point I'm trying to make here is, because I'm not established or at the level you guys are at, I have to do the things to get there. If they want to play a certain way, with the potential of future gigs, then that's what I have to do. Maybe the next time around the reigns won't be as tight, and I can have freedom. I like to play different things, I don't like to play the chart stuff all the time, but if that's the way of paying your dues, then that's how I have to do it. No matter what you play, whether you spin mainstream, house, trance, even hip hop, you're already promoting that genre. If they like it, they'll buy it. Yes I know I should get out and explore the LA scene. But what is the ratio these days? What level do you look for? I for one don't feel I have what the scene wants. Yet. Soon enough that is the goal. Along with writing, and producing my own material.

Am I seriously supposed to answer all these hypotheticals?

quote:

Originally posted by djkatmaus You know what dude, I'm asking a simple question that is all. Picking the minds of those who have done it. That is all. I'm not asking for favors or anything of the such. Why be an ass.

I think he's just saying it was a long way of writing a simple question. There's no simple or short answer though.

However, My first bit of advice (and honestly I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything), is change your DJ name). It just sounds like a rip off or piss take of that other guy and either way it won't have any longevity. As a promoter or label owner, I just wouldn't take it seriously, unless you were doing some form of parody act.

Back to the question: I've got friends who have made it high up the ranks based on their productions (even the ones who were mediocre at best at mixing) and others that have plugged away for ages, slowly bulding a fan base and really cornering or pioneering a niche sound.

Others I know have made it big from putting on their own night. Just look at Robtronik - I see him everywhere now (and not that being a good guy doesn't go far too) but his compression nights really built his own career.

You have figure out what you want to stand for and then how to go about bringing it to people. If you do something that everyone is doing then you obviously you'll only get as far as the next guy, unless he's better connected than you.

Oh and that's the last way. Be someone famous already, then take up DJ'ing. It worked for Sam Ronson and she's shit at DJ'ing.

I came up with the Katmaus name after watching a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I didn't take it Deadmau5 or anything like that. I ran the name by a few people and they thought it was kinda cool. So I just kinda stuck with it for now, until I find something better. Unfortunately, I can't use my real name because someone has it trademarked. Along with the DJ title in front of it.

quote:

Originally posted by djkatmaus I came up with the Katmaus name after watching a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I didn't take it Deadmau5 or anything like that. I ran the name by a few people and they thought it was kinda cool. So I just kinda stuck with it for now, until I find something better. Unfortunately, I can't use my real name because someone has it trademarked. Along with the DJ title in front of it.

Fair enough, and I want you to know I wasn't having a go. Just that's what it natrally appeared to me when I saw the same. Also, probably becuase there's a few people on here that have done pisstake names of that same person.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Fair enough, and I want you to know I wasn't having a go. Just that's what it natrally appeared to me when I saw the same. Also, probably becuase there's a few people on here that have done pisstake names of that same person.

No not all. I never took it that way. Fact is, anything that was said in this thread or in other threads for that matter, I never took personally or anything like that. Hopefully the others wouldn't take it personally either. If there's one thing I've learned about the music business is, you can't take comments seriously. Well unless it is something serious which could jeopardize a relationship with a client or something of similar nature. I look at the threads as an advice tool.

LOL. When I DJ, I don't walk out with a mouse or a cat helmet on my head. Funny thing is, when I came up with the name, I never knew Deadmau5 existed until I was at a gig and some girl came up to the booth and asked me if I was related to Deadmau5. I had to ask her who's that, what's that? For a second, I thought she was telling me she saw a dead mouse on the floor or something, and maybe I should tell management. Oops.

Anywho, I really don't have a problem changing the name. My concern right now is finding my niche.

quote:

Originally posted by djkatmaus Bas and/or Clovis, I have a question since you're both in the same area I am. When you guys first started out, were you guys doing it the way you do it now back then? What I mean is before you became established and created a following, was there ever time you had to do it their way? Serious question here, because for all I know I could be going about it the wrong way. At what point did you guys change it up, and say this is what we want to do? Here's how I'm viewing things, as the new guy. Clovis, let's say for an example you're a club owner. And in your club the music is Hip Hop, Top 40, Kiss FM stuff. Now let's say I frequent your establishment quite often, but in my mind I think your place could benefit with say one night of edm. Any or all genres of edm. I sent you demos, I bugged you about it everytime. Then one day, you decided to bring me in for a try out and see what happens. Now, would you let me get creative or would you Insist on Top 40, or some other form of mainstream? in other words, would you tell me what to play? Remember Clovis, you're an average club owner who really knows nothing about the dance world. Here you an individual myself, no established name, a very small following, would you let me do my own thing? These are the kind of issues which I deal with when looking for a gig. Because I'm not established, or most of the time it's the stereotype. One place in particular. I'm sure you guys are familiar with V2O in Long Beach. Pretty nice club, which is mostly Hip Hop. A few years ago I noticed that they brought a pair of dance dj's for the patio. Not every night, but a few times a month. So I started sending demos, and talking to the club staff. Came to find out that the owners had placed a ban on us. Turns out the previous guys were more into drinking then doing their job. Make a long story short, that's how they portrayed the edm Dj. After some lobbying and free tickets to concerts they let me come in and prove we aren't that way. Of course they did give me some freedom, but they insisted that I play the mainstream too. I did exactly that, and have performed a few more gigs for them. I haven't been there in a while, so I really don't if someone else got in, or they simply don't do it. The point I'm trying to make here is, because I'm not established or at the level you guys are at, I have to do the things to get there. If they want to play a certain way, with the potential of future gigs, then that's what I have to do. Maybe the next time around the reigns won't be as tight, and I can have freedom. I like to play different things, I don't like to play the chart stuff all the time, but if that's the way of paying your dues, then that's how I have to do it. No matter what you play, whether you spin mainstream, house, trance, even hip hop, you're already promoting that genre. If they like it, they'll buy it. Yes I know I should get out and explore the LA scene. But what is the ratio these days? What level do you look for? I for one don't feel I have what the scene wants. Yet. Soon enough that is the goal. Along with writing, and producing my own material.

1. Stop thinking that you have to do any of these things in order to get somewhere.

2. You need to pick the parties and clubs you play at better. Why would you go offer your services to a club that only plays hip-hop and top 40 shit? It's obvious that your music won't be well received. I'm sure you can find a small place with people that go there precisely because it doesn't play hip-hop or top 40 shit. That's the place and audience you want to play for.

3. Stop trying to cater to "what the scene wants" and start doing what YOU want.

Just my personal opinion.

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