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But think of all the hooker scandals you could be publicly ousted for! The airport bathroom stalls one could footsy around in! So much wasted potential in you.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit right. Next thing you know your going to blame visa for not being able to pay your credit card. Give me a break. Sure the banks are responsible, but also the "homeowners" who purchased these absurd mortgages. its always easy to blame the big fish, the guy with alot of money. Its the easy thing to do. Anways i dont mind. This market pullback gives cheaper prices for buying opportunities. Continue on with this sensless goldman sachs bashing. Institutional investors are racking in on their short positions.

This is the sort of response, right here, which poses a singular narrative mythology that attempts to justify the financial calamity. I saw the Fareed Zakaria interview with Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein and while he echoed, in much more familiar terms, the same mythology you're purporting, he left out a few details that make his and your arguments incredulous.

The fact of the matter is that the financial calamity was caused by so many complex mechanisms operated by multiple companies that your reduction of my argument to a singular straw-man logical fallacy belies an ignorance so impermeable, I would have a better chance of having a fruitful conversation with a dog about why he should refrain from eating as much as he wanted to, in spite of his biological compulsion to eat whenever food is made available to him.

You either have an unsatisfied narrative with which you are insecure enough to require validation for or you are simply trolling. In either case, you're clearly not interested in the truth.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker This is the sort of response, right here, which poses a singular narrative mythology that attempts to justify the financial calamity. I saw the Fareed Zakaria interview with Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein and while he echoed, in much more familiar terms, the same mythology you're purporting, he left out a few details that make his and your arguments incredulous.

Again, I ask you, as you seem to avoid everything which i said in my previous post, who went in over there head to purchase these outlandish mortgages knowing they were high risk?

Who defaulted on their mortgages?

If i am going to lend you money, i will lend it on terms that I decide, not you since it is my money. If you don't follow the rules to my loan, i take your assets. This is the premise here. If you don't want a loan, then work, rent and save until you can afford what you want.
The customer is equally as responsible as the bank here and you seem to neglect this fact and go on to say "complex mechanisms run by companies are at fault". I suggest, instead of wasting time with your thesaurus, that you read up on these "complex mechanisms" and you'll find that they are simply statistical models with cost beneifit outcomes that give a profitable outcome towards the company. Whats wrong with that? I lend you money, i expect some sort of return on it. Isn't that the merit of lending money or am i living under a rock here?

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The fact of the matter is that the financial calamity was caused by so many complex mechanisms operated by multiple companies that your reduction of my argument to a singular straw-man logical fallacy belies an ignorance so impermeable, I would have a better chance of having a fruitful conversation with a dog about why he should refrain from eating as much as he wanted to, in spite of his biological compulsion to eat whenever food is made available to him.

no, actually its quite simple. I make a mortgage that is high risk so i can cash in on interest payments quickly and make money to have a good bottom line, while you're owning a million dollar house with your 30,000 dollar a year salary hoping that your mortgage rates don't go up while you foolishly live on loads of credit paying credit card with credit card etc. Both parties are equally at fault. This is a classic case of greed vs stupidity. Haven't you heard the sayings, "if its too good to be true, it probably is?" "If you can't afford it don't buy it?" Are you defending the idiot consumer? or are you just one of them who found a nice thesaurus in the pawn shop. I suggest you use it on your dog to communicate with him as he will give you the satisfying response you are looking for. "ruff ruff"

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You either have an unsatisfied narrative with which you are insecure enough to require validation for or you are simply trolling. In either case, you're clearly not interested in the truth.

please tell me what the truth is michael moore. Goldman sachs is guilty of nothing Except non disclosure of fund mechanics to its investors. Something that is VERY VERY VERY VERY common in the market today, especially with etfs (which i heavily trade). The fact of the matter is the following. You are investing in a product which caries certain risks to it. Do you really need to know what the net asset value is comprised of and how it is determined at the end of each day? apparently the investors didn't care until they found their portfolio value degraded. If you see that your net asset value is flopping, perhaps you should take another position instead of holding long.

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Originally posted by The17sss Tell me what I said in that box you quoted that makes me such an offbase imbecile. Reducing drilling would make us have to buy more from overseas. A dropoff in production would lead to increasted energy/transportation costs. There's less risk for environmental disaster by drilling on dry land than 20 miles out to sea. We drill so far off land because we are massively restricted ON land. All facts. So, what about those statements is idiotic? Tell me, or just shut your fucking mouth... you offer no alternative ideas or thoughts to any conversation... just a bunch of "you're an idiot! you're stupid! you're a right wing extremist!" Fucking douchebag.

You're an imbecile because you insist on depending on fossil fuels as energy sources, you favor drilling on your country's untapped oil deposits as opposed to spending on developing green technologies and seem to be more concerned about how this is going to affect your "drill baby, drill" mantra and how you are going to wipe the egg off your face rather than the disastrous environmental implications. This is a wake-up call, and all you care about are your politics and your wallet.

People attempting to downplay this in anyway are fucking retarded.

Profit before people: BP successfully lobbied against precautionary safety measures which could have prevented Gulf of Mexico disaster.

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Originally posted by woscar You're an imbecile because you insist on depending on fossil fuels as energy sources, you favor drilling on your country's untapped oil deposits as opposed to spending on developing green technologies and seem to be more concerned about how this is going to affect your "drill baby, drill" mantra and how you are going to wipe the egg off your face rather than the disastrous environmental implications. This is a wake-up call, and all you care about are your politics and your wallet.

quit with the ad hominem attacks. Everyone knows that the free market will dictate when its time to switch to alternative energy sources. Its already shown with the Increase in market capitilization of Alternative energy source companies. The best transition that could happen is by putting sanctions on drilling and excavation to drive up the commodity price of fossil fuels to the point that they are unreasonable and money will instead flow towards the cheaper source (alternatives).

Everyone cares about politics and their wallet which is why the change should be driven by smart marketing and economics, not tree hugging hippies lying and telling us the Himalayas will melt in 10 years or so.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Words

Do you really need to win this argument? I mean, really - that's what it's come down to? I've seen all these arguments but they never contend with the bottom line. The bottom line is that even though a small percentage of people did knowingly get in over their heads in the mortgage crisis, the net result was an epic failure of monumental consequences and millions of people, including my family, are paying the price.

The ethics you're applying are that of the psychopathic con-man. They justify themselves by projecting their own greed onto their victims. Like Timothy McVeigh, they callously disregard the impact they've had with three simple words, "Get over it."

Nrg2Nfinit, can you please show me a picture of this "Free Market"? Terrible name for a person if you ask me, but if this individual is indeed the saviour of the world as you profess, then I'd like to look upon their visage, even just for a moment.

edit: Nevermind, found one:



Oh look, here's another one!



Here's another:



Wow, this "Free Market" person seems to have endless faces. Which one are you looking at, aside from your own profit-at-any-cost based one?

lol really. get real

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Do you really need to win this argument? I mean, really - that's what it's come down to? I've seen all these arguments but they never contend with the bottom line. The bottom line is that even though a small percentage of people did knowingly get in over their heads in the mortgage crisis, the net result was an epic failure of monumental consequences and millions of people, including my family, are paying the price.

So am I. but im not going to just sit here and blame the big boys who drive our economy and create liquidity in our markets when the cosumers are equally responsible for its downfall.

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The ethics you're applying are that of the psychopathic con-man. They justify themselves by projecting their own greed onto their victims. Like Timothy McVeigh, they callously disregard the impact they've had with three simple words, "Get over it."

Forgive me, The baby boomers didn't build our society on credit, they did it with hard work. There is no such thing as a free lunch, this should be a good lesson to those who defaulted on their loans.
Its money. You work hard, you earn it. You save you spend you invest wisely, learn from your mistakes.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit So am I. but im not going to just sit here and blame the big boys who drive our economy and create liquidity in our markets when the cosumers are equally responsible for its downfall.

Most consumers aren't responsible for the downfall. A few, knowingly got in over their heads. And the big boys are accountable. They created complex equations which showed long-term profits without ever considering that they were simply building a distended pyramid scheme. They would not have been able to do so without deregulation.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Forgive me, The baby boomers didn't build our society on credit, they did it with hard work. There is no such thing as a free lunch, this should be a good lesson to those who defaulted on their loans. Its money. You work hard, you earn it. You save you spend you invest wisely, learn from your mistakes.

So, you justify everything with a hard morality lesson and a convenient 'teachable moment'. That's precious.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Most consumers aren't responsible for the downfall. A few, knowingly got in over their heads. And the big boys are accountable. They created complex equations which showed long-term profits without ever considering that they were simply building a distended pyramid scheme. They would not have been able to do so without deregulation.

You just pulled that statistic out of your ass. The fact is that most consumers ARE responsible, otherwise they would have not gone in with the subprime mortgages, they would have went with regular ones.

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Subprime borrowers typically have weakened credit histories and reduced repayment capacity. Subprime loans have a higher risk of default than loans to prime borrowers.[16] If a borrower is delinquent in making timely mortgage payments to the loan servicer (a bank or other financial firm), the lender may take possession of the property, in a process called foreclosure. The value of USA subprime mortgages was estimated at $1.3 trillion as of March 2007, [17] with over 7.5 million first-lien subprime mortgages outstanding.[18] Between 2004-2006 the share of subprime mortgages relative to total originations ranged from 18%-21%, versus less than 10% in 2001-2003 and during 2007.[19][20] In the third quarter of 2007, subprime ARMs making up only 6.8% of USA mortgages outstanding also accounted for 43% of the foreclosures which began during that quarter.[21] By October 2007, approximately 16% of subprime adjustable rate mortgages (ARM) were either 90-days delinquent or the lender had begun foreclosure proceedings, roughly triple the rate of 2005.[22] By January 2008, the delinquency rate had risen to 21%[23] and by May 2008 it was 25%.[24]

there you go some statistics you can look up the references to verify with wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpri...Mortgage_market

again ill repeat. The consumer is responsible as they are the ones who defaulted. THE BANKS are responsible for giving the consumers the option. 2 parties equally responsible to be fair. Its a case of stupidity vs greed.

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So, you justify everything with a hard morality lesson and a convenient 'teachable moment'. That's precious.

no, im just saying that you have to also hold the consumer accountable for their decisions. This has been my premise the whole time. I just hate to hear idiots galavant on how evil goldman sachs are when they don't even understand their business model or what they are at fault for.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail lol really. get real

You seem to enjoy using the word real a lot. What, is there something not real about those photos?

What's real? Your Nintendo DS? Your Nikes?

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Originally posted by PivotTechno You seem to enjoy using the word real a lot. What, is there something not real about those photos? What's real? Your Nintendo DS? Your Nikes?

He was probably not even talking to you. Calm down.

The computer neatly tucked away in your safe home in Toronto that you use to preach to others that they don't do enough to solve the world's problems?

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Wikipedia

$125 billion of $859 billion total mortgage dollars were subprime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_lending


the few, a special, limited number; the minority: That music appeals to the few.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/few


Do you get it or do you need a lesson in ratios?



Do you understand, also, that I am arguing against deregulation and have read more Ayn Rand - an author who Alan Greenspan was a disciple of - than you?

Do you even know who Alan Greenspan is, let alone what it was that he supported?

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On The computer neatly tucked away in your safe home in Toronto that you use to preach to others that they don't do enough to solve the world's problems?

Comes in handy, it does .

(and the computer has some wonderful word processing and image editing capabilities that help to balance out the seemingly relentless preachy stuff)

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Originally posted by enydo He was probably not even talking to you. Calm down.

Fair enough.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail lol really. get real

That is real. Who is to blame when a multinational steps into a poor country, covets their resources and cheap labor, destroys their environment, and lobbies against regulations that would change all those things? Indonesia or the Philippines aren't invested in by huge companies because they have pretty beaches. Companies have been doing this for decades, and continue to do it, even as it's blatantly obvious that their investment does little to nothing to actually help the country they're in. Export-oriented development has failed in pretty much every case. It's clear that the wealth gap has only increased, the rich only get richer and the poor and benighted only get more shit thrown at them, for $6.50 a week mind you

But it's a mentality of taking care of your own HERE before considering those that are out of sight and mind. I think it's barbaric, even if curbing it is an extremely lofty goal.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit quit with the ad hominem attacks. Everyone knows that the free market will dictate when its time to switch to alternative energy sources. Its already shown with the Increase in market capitilization of Alternative energy source companies. The best transition that could happen is by putting sanctions on drilling and excavation to drive up the commodity price of fossil fuels to the point that they are unreasonable and money will instead flow towards the cheaper source (alternatives). Everyone cares about politics and their wallet which is why the change should be driven by smart marketing and economics, not tree hugging hippies lying and telling us the Himalayas will melt in 10 years or so.

And you, sir, are an imbecile for thinking that what has to "dictate when it's time to switch to alternative energy sources" is the "free market" as opposed to scientific research and the reality of the situation on Earth. Do you really think that the best way to "dictate" anything revolves around money?

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Originally posted by woscar And you, sir, are an imbecile for thinking that what has to "dictate when it's time to switch to alternative energy sources" is the "free market" as opposed to scientific research and the reality of the situation on Earth. Do you really think that the best way to "dictate" anything revolves around money?

You're an idiot if you don't think this world revolves around money. I'm thinking of plausible solutions while you're hugging your trees.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker $125 billion of $859 billion total mortgage dollars were subprime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_lending the few, a special, limited number; the minority: That music appeals to the few. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/few Do you get it or do you need a lesson in ratios? Do you understand, also, that I am arguing against deregulation and have read more Ayn Rand - an author who Alan Greenspan was a disciple of - than you? Do you even know who Alan Greenspan is, let alone what it was that he supported?

Please ask me more irrelevant questions. Its great that you can read I suggest you start by putting the letters together to spell out the premise of our economic recession "SUBPRIME MORTGAGE CRISIS".

I gave you the statistics and the percentage of defaults on mortgages. The delinquints were people living way beyond their means and got sucked into quick intrest cash grabs from the banks (Which i completely disagree with) but the fact of the matter is that they comitted to these loan terms knowing the risks of the VARIABLE rate.

2 partiest to blame here Its the middle to upper class that suffers the most as their already progressive tax rates get hiked even higher.

I do agree that we need some regulation but only SOME. The free market should always be free and liquid but the banks definatley need to tigheten their lending principles (just as we have it here in canada).

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit You're an idiot if you don't think this world revolves around money. I'm thinking of plausible solutions.

You're certifiably insane if you think it does and that we can continue to think that way for much longer.

And you're thinking of plausible solutions...that ensures that you don't have to give up any of your comfy space on the couch to anyone else.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno You're certifiably insane if you think it does and that we can continue to think that way for much longer. And you're thinking of plausible solutions...that ensures that you don't have to give up any of your comfy space on the couch to anyone else.

ok castro.

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