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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Znack Really? And they are?

You�re an idiot.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Arbiter No shit; the point is that there's no demonstrable increase, not that terrorism doesn't exist. I could find plenty of murders in the past few days by searching Google news, but there's a clear long-term downward trend in homicide rates.

I�m sure the shia / sunni parents of the next group of disassembled children, will rejoice that your statistical analysis proves that, actually, their children aren�t dead. And that the sunni / shia suicide bomber that statistically didn�t blow himself up, was acting out of non religious motivations.

And therefore, we should all stop criticising islam, and focus out ire on the terrorism of America and Israel. Have I got that right?

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Originally posted by Znack I�m sure the shia / sunni parents of the next group of disassembled children, will rejoice that your statistical analysis proves that, actually, their children aren�t dead.

For someone who professes to favor rational analysis, you lay the emotional appeals on pretty thick. Whatever the proper response to terrorism may be, I am pretty sure hysteria is not it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

I have to admit, though, the idea that Arbiter wants us to stop criticizing religion is rather amusing.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles For someone who professes to favor rational analysis, you lay the emotional appeals on pretty thick. Whatever the proper response to terrorism may be, I am pretty sure hysteria is not it.

Unless you're on the receiving end of course (which I've not been, I must add).

Sometimes, abstract arguments about the motivations of terrorists and statistical trends of violence, become divorced form the personal impact of these events on real people. Sometimes I think we need reminding exactly what terrorism actually means.

You seem to be thinking that the terrorist would have you look at it in some other way.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker You seem to be thinking that the terrorist would have you look at it in some other way.

The support for the I.R.A. from the American public. Putting dollars into a collection bucket is a far cry from putting body parts into a collection bucket.

Folk sitting in ivory towers, sheesh!

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Originally posted by Znack The support for the I.R.A. from the American public. Putting dollars into a collection bucket is a far cry from putting body parts into a collection bucket. Folk sitting in ivory towers, sheesh!

You're not getting what I'm pointing to. I'm talking about the psychological effect of terror - the fundamental goal of terror without which it would have no efficacy - and the impact it's had on you. In terms of having achieved that goal, regarding your thinking, I can think of two words your arch enemy would use to describe you:

Mission Accomplished

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Sheesh. It's called an analogy. I guess this just goes to show that there's nothing like a little fear-mongering to turn otherwise right thinking people into a pack of slavering neanderthals.

You've grown soft, old man. Here is one of your minions, daring to even question your decree, and all you do is call him a slavering neanderthal?! The old Arbiter would've cudgeled him for his insolence!

I say that we commence with plans to temporarily allocate enormous swaths of our own land toward the fostering of pigs. A few million would probably do just fine. Then, in an unprecedented humanitarian effort, we will deploy said pigs via airdrops or great cargo ships to be safely expedited to the crag and the dune of the middle east, thereby giving millions upon millions of people the ability to cultivate a reliable source of protein to keep their families alive and well for generations to come. Famine will be a thing of the past. We will be lauded as saviours in the region; Fighting a so-called war with the boon of porcine bounty, an unheard of charity event sure to be spearheaded by Kanye West and maybe John Stamos. Nothing can go wrong.

We have a pig in our apartment complex. Every now and then I see it out on walkies with its owner. It's really quite adorable.

Same. Her name is Brenda and I believe she lives in 322.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker You're not getting what I'm pointing to. I'm talking about the psychological effect of terror - the fundamental goal of terror without which it would have no efficacy - and the impact it's had on you.

Whereas you prefer to view terrorism in a cold, dethatched and analytical way? The sort of view that reduces the human drama of, say, a battlefield to nothing more than pins on a map? Given the choice, I know where I prefer my perceptions, and human sympathies, to lie.

If that sounds unreasoned, then so be it.

So you're a terrorist sympathizer who supports the emotional resonance of jihad?

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Originally posted by Znack Whereas you prefer to view terrorism in a cold, dethatched and analytical way? The sort of view that reduces the human drama of, say, a battlefield to nothing more than pins on a map? Given the choice, I know where I prefer my perceptions, and human sympathies, to lie. If that sounds unreasoned, then so be it.

I would state that I prefer to view almost any conflict in an analytical fashion. Almost invariably, conflict is layered with a haphazard mythology which comprises a narrative either party is subject to, provided they let their emotions ensnare their better judgment. In your instance, regarding terrorism, you're ensnared in the terrorist's mythology. You are dutifully playing the part of the unwitting dupe and therefor the godless infidel who fulfills his role in this perversion with the allegiance of the over-eager Broadway Musical prima donna.

You're validating their mythology simply by being you and holding the beliefs you cling to. You are the perfect enemy who is providing lavish justification, not simply because you are against Islam, but because you are so unreasonable; your intransigence playing the pivotal role as the unfaltering lynch pin attached to the Fresnel lamp of incandescent rage.

The lights come up, the curtain opens, and there you are, reciting your lines, verbatim, from the script they have written. Your harsh lighting is a visceral reminder of the mythology that terrorists cling to in order to justify their actions. I mean it's so bloody perfect, really.

In terms of a psychodrama, you are the embodiment of Projective Identification. Like the abused child, persistently reminded of how ugly and stupid they really are, you have adopted the traits your tormentors have attributed to you. You might believe in your individuality; your own humanity, but that humanity is the target of this remotely controlled inquisition.

In order for someone to kill someone else, it takes a certain degree of an ability to dehumanize one's target; to turn them into less of a human being and more of a monster worthy of destruction. This is something that occurs with relative ease to serial killers, who have no empathy and cannot imagine that there is a living, breathing entity comprising one of Oppenheimer's worlds, suffocating under the duress of ligature strangulation. The victim is little more than an object, to them.

Serial killers, like their terrorist counter-parts, have their own psycho-dramas unfolding in their crime. Their neglectful, promiscuous mother is the subject of transference found in the drug-addled prostitute hidden in a drainage ditch. While there are stark differences, the dehumanizing aspect is the same but one has to reckon with the difference between the garden variety sexual psychopath and the terrorist is the nature of specificity. The serial killer's target is his victim. The terrorist's target is your humanity.

It's therefore no surprise to find you so amenable to your own dehumanization.


Edit:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

~Friedrich Nietzsche


And the abyss has gazed into you, now hasn't it?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam is a Religion of Peace?

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Originally posted by Znack Have I got that right?

No; sadly, you got it wrong. Again.

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I�m sure the shia / sunni parents of the next group of disassembled children, will rejoice that your statistical analysis proves that, actually, their children aren�t dead. And that the sunni / shia suicide bomber that statistically didn�t blow himself up, was acting out of non religious motivations.

Here's a tip: your lame straw man arguments work better if they're at least superficially similar to the argument you're trying to rebut.

I usually charge for lessons, you know.

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And therefore, we should all stop criticising islam, and focus out ire on the terrorism of America and Israel.

The problem with criticizing Islam is that Islam is so internally diverse that your claims are likely to be over-inclusive and/or run straight into the gaping maw of a "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize Islam, though. Rather, it means that when we criticize Islam, we should do it intelligently. The corollary would then of course be that you should avoid criticizing Islam because you're not capable of doing so intelligently.

As for the "terrorism of America and Israel," don't make me laugh. America engages in lame ground invasions of countries they could level without ever setting foot inside their borders, all in an inane effort to avoid killing even one more person than "necessary." Israel is a little more aggressive, and good for them. But trying to equivocate their tactics with strapping a bomb to your chest and detonating it in a crowd of women and children is nothing more than a puerile attempt at confusing the issues.

If we're going to focus "out ire [sic]" on the terrorism of America and Israel, then surely we should focus it on their lack of "terrorism," and how it's needlessly dragging out armed conflicts because they don't have the gonads to go for the throat when they already have a decisive advantage.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I say that we commence with plans to temporarily allocate enormous swaths of our own land toward the fostering of pigs. A few million would probably do just fine. Then, in an unprecedented humanitarian effort, we will deploy said pigs via airdrops or great cargo ships to be safely expedited to the crag and the dune of the middle east, thereby giving millions upon millions of people the ability to cultivate a reliable source of protein to keep their families alive and well for generations to come. Famine will be a thing of the past. We will be lauded as saviours in the region; Fighting a so-called war with the boon of porcine bounty, an unheard of charity event sure to be spearheaded by Kanye West and maybe John Stamos. Nothing can go wrong.

Best post of the thread.

Maybe we could throw in a few thousand crates of whiskey and vodka, too. Operation Pork and Booze.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker I would state that I prefer to view almost any conflict in an analytical fashion.

I'm sure you do, it gives you all the answers, and the chance to express your incredible insight into the human psyche. Thanks for pointing out that anyone outraged by terrorist activity, is little more than a grown up abused child, striking back at their wicked step father, or paedophile uncle.

Despite you no doubt brilliant analysis, I think I prefer my participative role in the "psycho-drama", to that of the sneering critic in the third row. The one who sits well away from any unpleasant spittle that might fly his way from the stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Znack Thanks for pointing out that anyone outraged by terrorist activity, is little more than a grown up abused child, striking back at their wicked step father, or paedophile uncle.

Straw-man Logical Fallacy

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