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-- Yet Another Suicide Bombing
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BTW, Israel has just killed a VERY VERY senior Hamas official. No innocent people were killed in that case. Don't know what will that accomplish, but at least you can see that Israely military indeed tries to only kill those directly responsible for suicide bombings.(I do realize that innocent people still die on Palestinian side, having said that, Israely military does try to avoid that)

Though I'm sure you pro-palestinians will cry again that Israel shouldn't target terrorists.

I tried talking to a wall the other day. i must admit it was easier than arguing with "pro-palestinian" people on this board.

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Originally posted by tathi Ahh, you have a PhD in Political Science? I thought the government's primary objective is to "govern" its citizens.

Actually, I think the ideal objective for a government is to serve its citizens rather than govern or rule over them. What's that saying in the US constitution, A Government of the People, by the People, and for the People?

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The Israeli authority are doing everything they can to undermine the Palestinian authority, the Palestinian people have lost faith in their government and taken "justice" into their own hands.

Here's where you kind of lose me, if the Palestinian people have lost faith in their government and fully support the actions of Hamas then they should elect representatives of Hamas to represent their cause, and officially support the methods with which they will achieve a resolution of their plight. The fact of the matter is that they elected Mazen, and the PLO to represent them. If they desire a more radical approach then they can't have the government on one side negotiating with Israel and seeking a diplomatic approach to the probelm while on the other side they actively support Hamas using violent means to achieve resolution. Who's it going to be? You can't have the Israeli government brokering deals with Hamas, the PLO, Al-Fatah, etc., in order to resolve the crisis. There can only be one representative of the Palestinian people and they must have complete control over the Palestinians and the ability to dictate its terms to Israel. Now I know you can say something like "oh but Israel isn't let the PLO police the Palestinians, they can't do anything, etc." but the fact of the matter is that even when Israel has been completely withdrawn from all the Palestinian territories, the PLO has been ineffective in controlling the militants. Mazen must take a harder stance against them if he wants to succeed diplomatically with the Israelis.

That being said, I would be careful characterizing Hamas's actions as "Palestinian's taking justice into their own hands." The fact of the matter is that the majority of the Palestinian people DO NOT support Hamas's actions and their role in the entire crisis.

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2003/p8a.html

You cannot have 20% of the population speaking for the other 80% of the people. Additionally, many Palestinians do not support Hamas's hardline stance on many issues:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3065299.stm

Hamas is in effect attempting to impose its hardline stance on the rest of the population on such issues such as the refugee right of return. Even if the majority of the refugees don't want such a right, it still fights for that right, without any compromise, based upon ideaological principles. It all boils down to the simple fact that the Palestinians elected officials to represent them. They must let THEM and not anyone else represent them.

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Originally posted by tathi Ahh, you have a PhD in Political Science? I thought the government's primary objective is to "govern" its citizens.

No I simply have a Bachelor in Political Science, but I don't see what my education level has to do when I say something to the point. I have had professors with which I both disagreed and agreed with, and often times I see their arguments are not any stronger then many on these forums.

And yes, current rational logic tells us that a government only came to be because people needed to come together to defend themselves against others. You don't even have to believe that the government is good for the people (alla Hobbes) to believe and follow it. However it is quiet necessary that once you agree to live under a government you follows its rule wether you disagree or agree with its actions. There can be no government if people on every decision follow their emotions and obey it or not. Imagine for yourself what life would be like if ALL people chose to obey whatever law they wanted, and neglect the others. What type of world would that be?

I'll tell you what world that would be, it would be the world of the extremist Palestinian groups...

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You would be right if the military staged a coup and maintained a totalitarian state

No it doesn't matter.. even a bad government such as North Korea takes responsibility for its actions and makes sure there is not rival group with in the nation speaking on its behalf.

The Palestinian problem in this sense is similar to Columbia which has in de facto many goverments over one country, creating an uneasy anarchy.

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The Israeli authority are doing everything they can to undermine the Palestinian authority, the Palestinian people have lost faith in their government and taken "justice" into their own hands.

Although I don't agree with you on this point.
Using the premise of war, it is usually an objective to destroy the other nation's goverment (as opposed to its people). Still you are crossing a VERY VERY dangerous line when you let people "take justice into their own hands". You know the KKK, the american terrorist group, took justice into their own hands when they lost faith in their government to protect them from black people who they believed would change the dynamics of their society, so they launced a terror campagin in the South and killed many innocent black people. But despite wide-popular support in the South the Federal government was able to crack-down and restore law and order, which only the US government after all shoudl administer.

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And Israel is acting legally under the UN?

This is a completely different question, and I can make a pretty good case that the Israel is actually acting in accordance with the baseless and collapsing organization we like to call the UN. On the othernote, I can't see anyone even making a halfass attempt at claiming the Palestinian terrorist groups are acting leagally under the UN.

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Think of the puppet government in Afghanistan, does it have the popular support of the Afghani people? Is it the Afghanistani army "protecting" it's people or is it UN peace keepers?

A government does not have to have popular support to commit its purpose. In fact the best governments are the one who can act without popular support to protect themselves (such as UK in Iraq).

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If everyone agreed in one philosophy why are there so many? I do not believe in your philosophy.

Look I'm not saying agree to one philosophy. I'm just saying PICK ONE. Because right now you have none, you are moving through life thinking appels and oranges can be equated, everything that is white can become black, and everything black can become white.

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You find terrorizing children funny? I'm glad i don't have your sense of humour.

Ya you know what, I do find it funny. I really do find it funny that someone had the idea of calling some pissed off soldiers wiping their asses with radicial elementy school drawings terrorism when you compare that act (which did not kill anyone) with some of the horrible tradegies that are going around in that area. How come you can't find the humor in that?

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Is it really a dumb point? To you it might be, but think about others on this forum..

I am thinking about others on this forum, and I still say IT IS A DUMB POINT. We know what terrorism is, and we know the Israelis are not conducted it as a matter of policy. Wether we supprot the Israelis are not, this SHOULD be indisputable...

In fact why are we disputing it. I have defended my claim very well, now its your turn to make your case. Equate Israel with terrorism. And when I mean terrorism I mean gun-ho, murder civilians in the street for the sake of murdering civilians in the street type terrorism.

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It is hard for me to understand why people force their collective opinion onto others

Ya I don't get this either.. its obviously a big waste of time. I think it is beause people like to feel smart when they think in their own mind they have made superior arguments to others...
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Originally posted by Yoepus A government does not have to have popular support to commit its purpose. In fact the best governments are the one who can act without popular support to protect themselves (such as UK in Iraq).

And this is actually a very good and important point.

Before some fool jumps on it saying "this is undemocratic" I'd like to explain it.

Every sane nation understands that its people as a whole are not qualified to charter its course, because the general people lack (1) information and (2) professional skills to make decisions. In a democracy, what people do is elect leaders who have the qualifications and judgment to advance the nation's causes.

That's why we have Congress and Parliament and whatever, as well as executive leaders, in every democratized country. Great point Yoepus!

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Originally posted by Eugene And this is actually a very good and important point. Before some fool jumps on it saying "this is undemocratic" I'd like to explain it. Every sane nation understands that its people as a whole are not qualified to charter its course, because the general people lack (1) information and (2) professional skills to make decisions. In a democracy, what people do is elect leaders who have the qualifications and judgment to advance the nation's causes. That's why we have Congress and Parliament and whatever, as well as executive leaders, in every democratized country. Great point Yoepus!

Case in point: FDR vs. the American people in WW2. Now I laugh at anybody who says FDR LET pearl harbor happen in order to bring america into the war, but FDR was a staunch supporter of aiding Britain with the lend-lease program and manipulating the American public to support britain when most wanted to remain neutral in the face of another "european" conflict.

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Durafei BTW, Israel has just killed a VERY VERY senior Hamas official. No innocent people were killed in that case.

Good to see extrajudicial "justice" has been served

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Don't know what will that accomplish,

Someone got a promotion

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TranceGiant I tried talking to a wall the other day. i must admit it was easier than arguing with "pro-palestinian" people on this board.

I also talked with a wall yesterday, i must admit it was harder than arguing with the "pro-israeli" people on this board

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occrider Actually, I think the ideal objective for a government is to serve its citizens rather than govern or rule over them. What's that saying in the US constitution, A Government of the People, by the People, and for the People?

The act of governance is to exercise authority, and yes, this means it is serving the people, for better or for worse, the government decides whether it is going to war or not, it is partitioned into departments, the army being a department, the government controls the army, not the other way around.

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That being said, I would be careful characterizing Hamas's actions as "Palestinian's taking justice into their own hands."

You will notice that i always emphasize "justice" It is an intangible concept, "justice" can't be measured, an eye for an eye, so to speak, it is subject to perception, what we are seeing in Israel is an infinite loop of revenge. Fighting fire with fire in Israel does not work now and will not work in the future.

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but I don't see what my education level has to do when I say something to the point. I have had professors with which I both disagreed and agreed with

That is because humans have different opinions

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And yes, current rational logic tells us that a government only came to be because people needed to come together to defend themselves against others.

No. Government has evolved, from primitive communal gatherings of our archaic ancestors, to rudimentary forms of despotism and absolutism, it came to be to so the powerful can subjugate the weak

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You don't even have to believe that the government is good for the people (alla Hobbes) to believe and follow it.

This is true, think of the alternative, Anarchy. Anarchy empowers authority

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However it is quiet necessary that once you agree to live under a government you follows its rule wether you disagree or agree with its actions. There can be no government if people on every decision follow their emotions and obey it or not.

If this is true, how have the forms of government evolved throughout history? Modern government has been developed through a process called trial and error, hopefully a few hundred years in the future humanity can look back on todays government as being violent and primitive.

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There can be no government if people on every decision follow their emotions and obey it or not. Imagine for yourself what life would be like if ALL people chose to obey whatever law they wanted, and neglect the others. What type of world would that be? I'll tell you what world that would be, it would be the world of the extremist Palestinian groups...

I'd suggest you rent a movie called �Equilibrium� Christian Bale is in it (American Psycho, Breath of Fire) excellent actor, i can see how you would agree with the form of government demonstrated in that movie
Until then ponder this:

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Friedrich Nietzsche Morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose.

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The Palestinian problem in this sense is similar to Columbia which has in de facto many goverments over one country, creating an uneasy anarchy.

Palestine was fine until 1948

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Using the premise of war, it is usually an objective to destroy the other nation's goverment (as opposed to its people). Still you are crossing a VERY VERY dangerous line when you let people "take justice into their own hands".

I agree with you, but then again, i didn't grow up in Palestine.

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You know the KKK, the american terrorist group, took justice into their own hands when they lost faith in their government to protect them from black people who they believed would change the dynamics of their society, so they launced a terror campagin in the South and killed many innocent black people. But despite wide-popular support in the South the Federal government was able to crack-down and restore law and order, which only the US government after all shoudl administer.

It's sad isn't it ;\

Just curious, is the ELF still up there with the top internal American terrorist groups? I saw a documentary on it a few years ago, they were rated the number 1 terrorist threat to the USA before 9/11 if memory serves.

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This is a completely different question, and I can make a pretty good case that the Israel is actually acting in accordance with the baseless and collapsing organization we like to call the UN. On the othernote, I can't see anyone even making a halfass attempt at claiming the Palestinian terrorist groups are acting leagally under the UN.

I never claimed the Palestinian terrorist groups are acting legally, as i have stated before, I do not condone terrorism of any kind.

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Look I'm not saying agree to one philosophy. I'm just saying PICK ONE. Because right now you have none, you are moving through life thinking appels and oranges can be equated, everything that is white can become black, and everything black can become white.

Remember writing this:

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but I don't see what my education level has to do when I say something to the point.

but i don't see what my philosophical preference has to do when i say something to the point..
From inferences i have made in the past, people that pick a certain philosophy as a guideline to which they want live life by, will follow this template even through aspects that they don't believe in. Of all the philosophies i have read, i don't agree with one exclusively. I'd prefer my own personal amalgamation of several philosophies.

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Ya you know what, I do find it funny. I really do find it funny that someone had the idea of calling some pissed off soldiers wiping their asses with radicial elementy school drawings terrorism when you compare that act (which did not kill anyone) with some of the horrible tradegies that are going around in that area.

Indeed, look at the deaths of civilians on both sides..

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How come you can't find the humor in that?

I'm not a sadist

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I am thinking about others on this forum, and I still say IT IS A DUMB POINT. We know what terrorism is, and we know the Israelis are not conducted it as a matter of policy. Wether we supprot the Israelis are not, this SHOULD be indisputable...

Hahaha, i definitely find the humour in that %D

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In fact why are we disputing it. I have defended my claim very well, now its your turn to make your case. Equate Israel with terrorism. And when I mean terrorism I mean gun-ho, murder civilians in the street for the sake of murdering civilians in the street type terrorism.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, I am assuming you would appreciate me giving this contentious issue its own post, rather than rushing it now, i will address this issue later tonight if I'm not busy, or tomorrow morning if i don't have a hangover. Note that I am not evading the question.

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No it doesn't matter.. even a bad government such as North Korea takes responsibility for its actions and makes sure there is not rival group with in the nation speaking on its behalf.

There is no such thing as a rival groups in North Korea, 400,000 prisoners have died in labor camps since 1972, for speaking out against the regime, any criticism of Kim Jong-Il, will result in imprisonment for a family of up to three generations, because these prisons are filling up, the prison guards are encouraged to destroy a generation, rewards are given if you force a pregnant female into an arbitrary abortion by kicking her in the stomach

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Ya I don't get this either.. its obviously a big waste of time. I think it is beause people like to feel smart when they think in their own mind they have made superior arguments to others...

I suffer from delusions of grandeur

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No I simply have a Bachelor in Political Science

I sense subtle self promotion in your posts also

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Maria Montessori A great deal of time and intellectual force are lost in the world, because the false seems great and the truth so small and insignificant."

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Originally posted by Durafei BTW, Israel has just killed a VERY VERY senior Hamas official. No innocent people were killed in that case. Don't know what will that accomplish, but at least you can see that Israely military indeed tries to only kill those directly responsible for suicide bombings.(I do realize that innocent people still die on Palestinian side, having said that, Israely military does try to avoid that) Though I'm sure you pro-palestinians will cry again that Israel shouldn't target terrorists.

Its very rare that innocent civilians are not killed during these operations to assasinate these terrorist leaders. Nevertheless, this killing will only dig deeper, more graves to put innocent isreali civilians into. The very fact that vengence is always declared when these leaders are killed and even when their own innocents are killed, shows to me that Israel, after repeatedly witnesseing a pattern of vengence, seems to dismiss these targeted attacks as something positive. In reality, although it may be great that the this leader is dead, a number of new "leaders" will form as a result of the martyre like perception that is embraced.

KNowing that vengence turns into terrorism after murdering these leaders, why would Israel add fuel to the already growing fire? How is this going to advance the peace process?

The last terrorist attack was executed by a relative of a militant leader who was killed

If he wasnt killed, and instead arrested and questioned by isreali authority, those 20 people on that bus would be living. But Israel seems to ignore patterns of vengence.

Also, the nature in which they killed this leader was irresponsible. By firing missiles into a crowded city street is pretty reckless. Do you honestly beleive that this method was in the interest of reducing as many innocent civilian lives? ALthough no one innocent was killed, it is clear to me that if they were trying to avoid innocent death, they would not have fired their missiles into the street with people walking about. But they do not care... as long as they get their terrorist, its all good......and the innocent people who die as a result...well they were there at the wrong place; at the worng time.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Its very rare that innocent civilians are not killed during these operations to assasinate these terrorist leaders. Nevertheless, this killing will only dig deeper, more graves to put innocent isreali civilians into. The very fact that vengence is always declared when these leaders are killed and even when their own innocents are killed, shows to me that Israel, after repeatedly witnesseing a pattern of vengence, seems to dismiss these targeted attacks as something positive. In reality, although it may be great that the this leader is dead, a number of new "leaders" will form as a result of the martyre like perception that is embraced. KNowing that vengence turns into terrorism after murdering these leaders, why would Israel add fuel to the already growing fire? How is this going to advance the peace process? The last terrorist attack was executed by a relative of a militant leader who was killed If he wasnt killed, and instead arrested and questioned by isreali authority, those 20 people on that bus would be living. But Israel seems to ignore patterns of vengence.

so all israel has to do is ignore that these terror groups exsist and sit back and do nothing, right?

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Also, the nature in which they killed this leader was irresponsible. By firing missiles into a crowded city street is pretty reckless. Do you honestly beleive that this method was in the interest of reducing as many innocent civilian lives? ALthough no one innocent was killed, it is clear to me that if they were trying to avoid innocent death, they would not have fired their missiles into the street with people walking about. But they do not care... as long as they get their terrorist, its all good......and the innocent people who die as a result...well they were there at the wrong place; at the worng time.

we are both not military experts, but to me if in fact the mission was to kill him, a precise missle attack from above seems like it would cause a lot less civilian casualties then sending in a convy of ground troops to do the same job. but then agian, i cant predict the future.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King The last terrorist attack was executed by a relative of a militant leader who was killed

btw just letting you know there is a big assumption on your part. although the militant who got killed (the one who's relative did the revenge) you have no clue to how this came about. maybe israeli soldiers went to his house wanting to interegate him or arrest him and then he shot at them causing a fire fight in which he died. maybe it didnt happen like that. point is you speculating that israel went out to kill him as a mission. this whole revenge on 20 innocent israelis may have been an excuse. maybe not. we dont know, unless maybe you do but you negelected to tell us?

it should be quiet for a week or two now, then the inevitable repeat all over again.....

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Also, the nature in which they killed this leader was irresponsible. By firing missiles into a crowded city street is pretty reckless. Do you honestly beleive that this method was in the interest of reducing as many innocent civilian lives? ALthough no one innocent was killed, it is clear to me that if they were trying to avoid innocent death, they would not have fired their missiles into the street with people walking about. But they do not care... as long as they get their terrorist, its all good......and the innocent people who die as a result...well they were there at the wrong place; at the worng time.

Tell me something, do you think Israeli military is *interested* in killing innocent palestinians?? If so - why ? Does it help their cause ? Does it help Israeli economy ?? The answer to all these questions is no. The reason because they killid him on the busy street (which is something neither you nor me can really confirm) was because leaders like him are not easy to track down. For the same reason it's not that easy to arrest him. Most of the time they are hiding. You have to seize the opportunity, otherwise it will escape you.

BTW, notice how all pro-palestinians on this board justify (like it's normal for that to happen) the latest suicide bombing, yet they condemn the last 2 killings of known terrorists.

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Originally posted by Izzy so all israel has to do is ignore that these terror groups exsist and sit back and do nothing, right?

Izzy, I know you could do better than this. I did not say that they should ignore them, instead, take a more responisble approach in dealing with them. Why do these terror groups exist. To rid ISrael? Its never going to happen.. this is something they know. They have repeatedly said that this is their way of 'defense'. That it is a 'war' in their eyes. They should look further into the root of the problem instead of "sitting back and doing nothing" like you think i assume.

Terrorists fighting state terrorists....im not surprised.

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we are both not military experts, but to me if in fact the mission was to kill him, a precise missle attack from above seems like it would cause a lot less civilian casualties then sending in a convy of ground troops to do the same job. but then agian, i cant predict the future.

But these missile attacks are far from precise....many times...if not always, civilians die as a result of these missile attaks. Im glad in this case..no one died, but i did read there were seriously injured people around the car. A convoy of trucks surrounding the car and arresting the man would be more reasonable.

Im sure if terrorists were working within Israel, the IDF wouldnt bomb their cars as they drove through crowded Israeli streets!

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Originally posted by Izzy btw just letting you know there is a big assumption on your part. although the militant who got killed (the one who's relative did the revenge) you have no clue to how this came about. maybe israeli soldiers went to his house wanting to interegate him or arrest him and then he shot at them causing a fire fight in which he died. maybe it didnt happen like that. point is you speculating that israel went out to kill him as a mission. this whole revenge on 20 innocent israelis may have been an excuse. maybe not. we dont know, unless maybe you do but you negelected to tell us?

well....Hamas has publicly stated that it was a revenge attack.

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Hamas said it carried out the bus attack as retribution for the killing of members of the group, which is sworn to Israel's destruction, in Israeli army raids that have continued despite the truce.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm...storyID=3315377

I also heard on BBC news last night that i was a direct relative that blew up the bus. I will try to find out more on that.

With respect to the terrorist leaders that are killed, you are right.. we dont know the circumstances as to how they die...but dont you find it funny that they ALWAYS end up dying by getting killed in a fire fight?

In my eyes, Israel cant seem to arrest these top leaders, becuase they always end up dead. I really dont think they are spared their own lives.

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Originally posted by Durafei Tell me something, do you think Israeli military is *interested* in killing innocent palestinians?? If so - why ? Does it help their cause ? Does it help Israeli economy ?? The answer to all these questions is no. The reason because they killid him on the busy street (which is something neither you nor me can really confirm) was because leaders like him are not easy to track down. For the same reason it's not that easy to arrest him. Most of the time they are hiding. You have to seize the opportunity, otherwise it will escape you.

You cant deny that there is much hate toward palestinians fromt he Isreali military. Just as the pals hate the dsoldiers, soldies are not fond of them either...and this animosity is reflected by the violence that occurs on both peoples. You make it sound as though i think the IDF is out to just kill innocent civilians.. that its part of their job...
However, civilians do die becuase i honestly beleive that many IDF soldiers dont give a fuck about them... if they die.. they die..oh well..they shouldnt be in the way....

Its this reckless attitude that has me angered. When kids are shot as they play ball outside, is not an excuse. If they cared, they would hesitate to pull the trigger, but they are palestinians...who cares

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Originally posted by Durafei BTW, notice how all pro-palestinians on this board justify (like it's normal for that to happen) the latest suicide bombing, yet they condemn the last 2 killings of known terrorists.

I think that terrorism is one the most dispicable things ever, and that is why i condemn both the terror caused by palestinians and the state terror that is executed by Isreal against the pals. I condemn any killing.

Supporting the actions of any of the two in my eyes is justifying terror.

Read this to get another viewpoint, that from a Jew.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...sID=0&listSrc=Y

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Originally posted by Cyrus King but dont you find it funny that they ALWAYS end up dying by getting killed in a fire fight?

you know its not 'always'. problem is you never hear about the ones that are succesfully arrested, you only hear about the ones that ended up dying, whether they were targeted or they resisted arrest and fought till their death.

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Originally posted by Izzy you know its not 'always'. problem is you never hear about the ones that are succesfully arrested, you only hear about the ones that ended up dying, whether they were targeted or they resisted arrest and fought till their death.

case in point:

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MILITANTS CORNERED, KILLED In the West Bank city of Nablus, witnesses said three Palestinian militants being sought by Israel were sheltering in a small rooftop room of Rafidya hospital when Israeli forces stormed up and surrounded the building. They said a shoot-out ensued with soldiers firing into the room, killing two militants and wounding the third. All three were members of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed faction within the mainstream Fatah (news - web sites) national movement of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat (news - web sites). Israeli security sources said the troops targeted militants who had been hiding in the hospital for some time and were wanted for involvement in a suicide bombing in Israel on August 12 and some ambush shootings in the West Bank.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/nm/mideast_dc

You are forgetting to mention something here IZZY.. the KEY words in that paragragh is "THEY SAID", or in other words, the Israeli security forces said....

"they" were the only ones that came out alive from this ambush.."they" are the only ones that can say what they "saw"

On the other hand, the report does not ask another person what happened from their view, if they had survuved the ambush.

A Lesson In English

English 101

Example Number 1:

Terrorism: The (1.)systematic use of (2.)violence as a means to (3.)intimidate or (4.)coerce societies or governments

(1.)Systematic: Characterized by order and planning
Is there any plan to the IDFs trips into Palestine, or is it just a fun melee?

(2.)Violence, Fairly self explanatory?
Violence:A turbulent state resulting in injuries and destruction
There is not a lot of room to argue on this one
As*sas`si*na"tion\, n. The act of assassinating; a killing by treacherous violence.

(3.)Intimidation: The act of intimidating a weaker person to make them do something.

(4.)Coerce: To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.
Societies:An extended social group having a distinctive cultural and economic organization

Example Number 2:

Terrorism: The (1)unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an (2)organized group against (3)people or property with the intention of (4)intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

(1.)Unlawful: Not morally right or permissible
Unlawful: Not conforming to legality, moral law, or social convention
Are there laws in Israel to prevent the theft of land, to preclude the occupation of foriegn military forces, to uphold human rights?
And what of Palestines laws?
Is Israel justly acting in accoradance of International Law, and the Geneva Convention?

Extrajudicial: Beyond the usual course of legal proceedings; legally unwarranted
Assassination equates well with extrajudicial, justice outside of the law

(2.)Organized: Arrange by systematic planning and united effort

Compare this with example 1: the (1)systematic use of (2)violence

Government:The organization that is the governing authority of a political unit

Army: An organization of military land forces

(3.)People:(plural) any group of human beings (men or women or children) collectively
Civilians would be classified under People

Property: Any tangible possession that is owned by someone

(4.)intimidating or coercing societies or governments
Remember the words Intimidating, Coercing, Societies and Government?

Third time lucky

\Ter"ror*ism\ n. The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation

Apply your new found English skills to this denotation, it's quite concise

To recap what we have learnt today:

Unlawful

The Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) is a cornerstone of international humanitarian law that ensures minimum protections for civilians in armed conflict and occupation. It forbids, among other things: the construction of settlements on occupied land (Article 49), unilateral annexation (Article 47), willful killing of civilians (Articles 146-147), collective punishment (33), torture (Articles 31-32, 146-147), and the destruction of property without a compelling military reason (Articles 53, 146-147). It also requires judicial accountability for those who commit war crimes (defined as �grave breaches� listed in Article 147 of the Convention). The Convention fully takes into account military necessity and cannot be violated for �security� reasons.

Israel is one of 189 states that have signed the Convention (�High Contracting Parties�) and is legally bound to it.

Violence:



The burned remains of a Palestinian boy lay amidst toys in a house
destroyed by Israeli soldiers in the Jenin refugee camp
Saturday, April 13, 2002. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay)

Intimidation:



A Palestinian boy intimidating an IDF Tank

Property:



A view from the top of the Hawashin district of the Jenin refugee camp. Armored Israeli bulldozers flattened the entire Hawashin district, completely demolishing more than 100 multi-story homes in this area of the camp. The destruction in Jenin refugee camp left some 4,000 persons homeless, more than a quarter of the population of the camp. (c) 2002 Peter Bouckaert/Human Rights Watch

People:



Immorality:



A neighbor holds the white flag that was attached to the wheelchair of fifty-seven-year-old Kamal Zghair. On April 10, Kamal Zghair was attempting to reach the gas station where he slept when he was shot and killed by an Israeli tank. His body and wheelchair were then run over by the tank. (c) 2002 Peter Bouckaert/Human Rights Watch

I personally thought �State Sponsored� terrorism is easy to apprehend

EDIT: Either some people on this forum are incapable of deductive reasoning, are illiterate, or refute to acknowledge anything they don't agree with

dogmatic hypothetical analogies are sure to follow

edit: stupid typo

Re: A Lesson In English

quote:

Originally posted by tathi English 101 Example Number 1: Terrorism: The (1.)systematic use of (2.)violence as a means to (3.)intimidate or (4.)coerce societies or governments (1.)Systematic: Characterized by order and planning Is there any plan to the IDFs trips into Palestine, or is it just a fun melee? (2.)Violence, Fairly self explanatory? Violence:A turbulent state resulting in injuries and destruction There is not a lot of room to argue on this one As*sas`si*na"tion\, n. The act of assassinating; a killing by treacherous violence. (3.)Intimidation: The act of intimidating a weaker person to make them do something. (4.)Coerce: To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. Societies:An extended social group having a distinctive cultural and economic organization Example Number 2: Terrorism: The (1)unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an (2)organized group against (3)people or property with the intention of (4)intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. (1.)Unlawful: Not morally right or permissible Unlawful: Not conforming to legality, moral law, or social convention Are there laws in Israel to prevent the theft of land, to preclude the occupation of foriegn military forces, to uphold human rights? And what of Palestines laws? Is Israel justly acting in accoradance of International Law, and the Geneva Convention? Extrajudicial: Beyond the usual course of legal proceedings; legally unwarranted Assassination equates well with extrajudicial, justice outside of the law (2.)Organized: Arrange by systematic planning and united effort Compare this with example 1: the (1)systematic use of (2)violence Government:The organization that is the governing authority of a political unit Army: An organization of military land forces (3.)People:(plural) any group of human beings (men or women or children) collectively Civilians would be classified under People Property: Any tangible possession that is owned by someone (4.)intimidating or coercing societies or governments Remember the words Intimidating, Coercing, Societies and Government? Third time lucky \Ter"ror*ism\ n. The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation Apply your new found English skills to this denotation, it's quite concise To recap what we have learnt today: Unlawful The Fourth Geneva Convention (1949) is a cornerstone of international humanitarian law that ensures minimum protections for civilians in armed conflict and occupation. It forbids, among other things: the construction of settlements on occupied land (Article 49), unilateral annexation (Article 47), willful killing of civilians (Articles 146-147), collective punishment (33), torture (Articles 31-32, 146-147), and the destruction of property without a compelling military reason (Articles 53, 146-147). It also requires judicial accountability for those who commit war crimes (defined as �grave breaches� listed in Article 147 of the Convention). The Convention fully takes into account military necessity and cannot be violated for �security� reasons. Israel is one of 189 states that have signed the Convention (�High Contracting Parties�) and is legally bound to it. Violence: The burned remains of a Palestinian boy lay amidst toys in a house destroyed by Israeli soldiers in the Jenin refugee camp Saturday, April 13, 2002. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay) Intimidation: A Palestinian boy intimidating an IDF Tank Property: A view from the top of the Hawashin district of the Jenin refugee camp. Armored Israeli bulldozers flattened the entire Hawashin district, completely demolishing more than 100 multi-story homes in this area of the camp. The destruction in Jenin refugee camp left some 4,000 persons homeless, more than a quarter of the population of the camp. (c) 2002 Peter Bouckaert/Human Rights Watch People: Immorality: A neighbor holds the white flag that was attached to the wheelchair of fifty-seven-year-old Kamal Zghair. On April 10, Kamal Zghair was attempting to reach the gas station where he slept when he was shot and killed by an Israeli tank. His body and wheelchair were then run over by the tank. (c) 2002 Peter Bouckaert/Human Rights Watch I personally thought �State Sponsored� terrorism is easy to apprehend Either the some people on this forum are incapable of deductive reasoning, are illiterate, or refute to acknowledge anything they don't agree with dogmatic hypothetical analogies are sure to follow

*Claps* very nice .. its great to show the other side of things.. TV is littered with palestinian terrorism.. (which is HORRID and needs to stop) but no one ever see's the israeli state sponsored terrorism

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