TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- Cars you Love
Pages (53): « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 [51] 52 53 »

vipers are whatever. ok a shit ton of torque delivered pretty low in the powerband, that's the main appeal, but for as much displacement in that v10, it's actually quite an engineering joke. if you want to know where all the drivetrain efficiency goes, it's lost as heat, noise and vibration. and what about the price tag? you're paying 15k more than a vette for the emblem and higher maintenance costs basically. what i find especially disappointing about the viper is how little it's been improved in the last decade. a face lift and new motor that's worse than what it replaced. great. but viper owners don't really give a shit about value or efficiency, they're all about revving at lights and taking off on mustangs just to get noticed.

i'll stick with the corvette, which is the fastest sports car for the money whether you're talking about the 49k base model or the 107k big mama. and they continue to do it with a good ole pushrod v8 and leaf springs! i haven't even began on the z06 or the new zr1 either. talk about some serious balls to the wall bang for the buck. no one makes an aluminum-framed composite-bodied sports car that performs as well across the board and pushes the envelope in every iteration while remaining essentially the same price like the corvette does. $107k buys you a 3300 pound car with 638 hp and 604 ft/lb torque, a top speed of 205 mph, 1.06 lateral gs of cornering grip, 60-0 in 96 ft and 0-60 in close to 3 flat with a low 11 qm. and how sexy that it manages all this on 19x10 and 20x12 inch staggered wheels placed around massive carbon-ceramic brakes.




i'll say again, the best thing that ever came out of detroit...



fuck a viper

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose just how many drugs do you carry around on a daily basis that the boot in the EVO is too small?

Honestly, more than I'm actually allowed to

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH no i already have a job. you made the claim therefore the preponderance of evidence is upon you. but wait, you obviously don't know a damn thing about the corvette otherwise you would have something to say about it. clearly what has transpired here is that an imbecile such as yourself made a sweeping generalization based on extremely limited first-hand knowledge and when challenged to expound upon such a broad statement, you've folded like a paper tiger. thank you for making this about as easy as possible for me. you may now return to jacking off to poster cars that you will never own.

I can see how you could make that assessment, but in reality I have no desire to argue with such an obvious Corvette fanboy who will never see the light. My issue with American cars is not so much their actual physicalities as the ethos behind the design, manifacture and operation of them. These are ethos that permeate nearly all aspects of American society in general and that people situated within said culture will forever fail to appreciate the mediocrity and crassness of.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I can see how you could make that assessment, but in reality I have no desire to argue with such an obvious Corvette fanboy who will never see the light. My issue with American cars is not so much their actual physicalities as the ethos behind the design, manifacture and operation of them. These are ethos that permeate nearly all aspects of American society in general and that people situated within said culture will forever fail to appreciate the mediocrity and crassness of.

more nebulous generalizations in place of an actual specific fault against the corvette. thanks for your utter waste of a post. i'm not talking about all american cars, i'm talking about the chevrolet corvette. a car you have absolutely no knowledge or first-hand experience with. like listening to a virgin talk about how lame sex is

i merely said the corvette was better than the mustang, i wasn't even talking to you, and yet you confidently interjected with the assertion that the corvette is a shit car. just tell me what about the corvette's engineering design or function makes it shit? can you even answer such a simple question?

ffffuuuuuuuuuu

I almost bought my buddies X, looks very similar to this one:



I am glad i didn't though, i would put off school even longer

Well, I've officially gone from this:



to this:



It's okay, it's a welcome change (is what I keep trying to convince myself of).

just to drive the point home, i just found this vid on youtube...

Looks cool. We don't get too many Yank cars in Australia, other than the folks trying to be show-ponies.

Aside from the Corvette, what are the other good American cars? I don't know much about them, other than (internationally) they're regarded as rubbish.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk Looks cool. We don't get too many Yank cars in Australia, other than the folks trying to be show-ponies. Aside from the Corvette, what are the other good American cars? I don't know much about them, other than (internationally) they're regarded as rubbish.

imo the vette is the only modern sports car america can really brag about. i don't even really like american cars other than 60's era classics, but the corvette is in a class of its own. i mean there's the ford gt of course, and the viper, but neither are as impeccable as the c5/c6 generation z06 and zr1 corvettes.

That's exactly why you don't see many of them because most of them are rubbish.

for decades leading up to the early to mid 2000s, american car companies never really gave a damn about making good commuter cars because that was never really where the market was. the market demanded powerful trucks and quick-in-a-straight-line sports cars. even then the only thing the big 3 consistently got right were the trucks. and the corvette of course. the focus was never on longevity because most americans would get a new car every 3 years anyway. when the markets opened up in the 80s, competition picked up on the safety and comfort side of the equation, but the domestics never really suffered from their poor quality until the reputation took hold in the 90s. up until recently, the big 3 never understood the importance of toyota's just-in-time production, total quality management, or six sigma philosophy, and for that matter neither did the europeans. these were concepts pioneered by an american statistician named w edward deming, who was hired by toyota in the 1980s to develop methods of controlling their at the time piss poor manufacturing quality. toyota of the 70s were the laughing stock of the industy. through toyota deming applied his principles and refined it to the point where toyota through lexus became the highest quality auto manufacturer in the world. to this day deming is worshiped in japan like a prophet who showed them the light. when gm and ford began losing major market share in their home market to toyota as an obvious result of disparity between the companies' quality levels, they embarked on several joint venture projects, one of which is was the nummi plant here in sf bay area, a co-managed auto plant that developed toyota and gm branded vehicles under toyota manufacturing guidelines. gm and ford picked up on total quality management, six sigma, and just-in-time production quickly (abandoning their parts bin production process) from the early 2000s on and today you see ford leading the way in quality commuters, beginning with the ford focus. i haven't followed gm much, but i imagine they have gotten their shit together recently as well. to be fair vws, bmws and mercedes of the 90s and early 2000s were also pretty piss poor in quality after the 60-100k mark, but the europeans have also tightened their supply chains and every one of the major manufacturers seemed to have pulled it together.


edit: and now this post doesn't really make sense because the guy who posted before me deleted his post

Ahhh, I'll just put it here:

I think the unrelenting slew of disparaging remarks leveraged against American cars were far more relevant 10 or 15 years ago than they are today. The reality from the publications I regularly follow- and my own experiences- is that American cars have come an impressively long way in a relatively short amount of time (most likely in response to domestic consumers opting to select higher quality foreign alternatives).

The typical criticisms (many of which are echoed in Domestic's posts) run the usual gamut we've been hearing for decades now: American cars are unrefined, poorly produced, vulgar and mechanically deficient pieces of shit. If this were the mid 90's, I'd happily hop on board with these assessments (as I did for an extended period of time), but now, I've leveled off quite a bit in light of that which has been coming out by way of Ford and GM.

To respond to Domesticated's remarks concerning a valid reason to own an American car, the formula simply boils down to value for the money, at least in terms of the mid to high end American sportscars being produced. The Cadillac CTS-V is quite obviously intended to be an M5 competitor at a considerably reduced price, and yes, one way they accomplish this is to cut production costs by scaling back on certain materials and amenities you would find in their foreign counterparts. The same can be said of the Z06, the ZR1, and even the Cobalt SS (which, if memory serves me correctly, set a Nurburgring record for FWD vehicles).

It needs to be said, though, that the modern equivalent of American cars compromising on, say, interior quality is dramatically different than how it looked when they did it 20 years ago. In other words, a shitty GM interior actually manages to look pretty damn nice, and if you can forgive certain production decisions in these and other areas, I'd say you have a pretty damn good reason to pick up an American car over the competition.

/Neo-Patriotic rant.

quote:

Originally posted by Paradox Lost I think the unrelenting slew of disparaging remarks leveraged against American cars were far more relevant 10 or 15 years ago than they are today. The reality from the publications I regularly follow- and my own experiences- is that American cars have come an impressively long way in a relatively short amount of time (most likely in response to domestic consumers opting to select higher quality foreign alternatives). The typical criticisms (many of which are echoed in Domestic's posts) run the usual gamut we've been hearing for decades now: American cars are unrefined, poorly produced, vulgar and mechanically deficient pieces of shit. If this were the mid 90's, I'd happily hop on board with these assessments (as I did for an extended period of time), but now, I've leveled off quite a bit in light of that which has been coming out by way of Ford and GM. To respond to Domesticated's remarks concerning a valid reason to own an American car, the formula simply boils down to value for the money, at least in terms of the mid to high end American sportscars being produced. The Cadillac CTS-V is quite obviously intended to be an M5 competitor at a considerably reduced price, and yes, one way they accomplish this is to cut production costs by scaling back on certain materials and amenities you would find in their foreign counterparts. The same can be said of the Z06, the ZR1, and even the Cobalt SS (which, if memory serves me correctly, set a Nuremberg record for FWD vehicles). It needs to be said, though, that the modern equivalent of American cars compromising on, say, interior quality is dramatically different than how it looked when they did it 20 years ago. In other words, a shitty GM interior actually manages to look pretty damn nice, and if you can forgive certain production decisions in these and other areas, I'd say you have a pretty damn good reason to pick up an American car over the competition. /Neo-Patriotic rant.

It was a pretty cool rant, admittedly.

All of that said though, if America's cars were really good, you'd see a lot more of them in other [non-north American] countries. But you don't. What you DO SEE is a whole lot of people in north America driving imported cars though.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk It was a pretty cool rant, admittedly. All of that said though, if America's cars were really good, you'd see a lot more of them in other [non-north American] countries. But you don't. What you DO SEE is a whole lot of people in north America driving imported cars though.

eh it's more complicated than that. you can't really sell a car that flies by america's fuel economy standards in europe and expect to be competitive like the europeans can do with their cars here. gm and ford actually do have decent market share in asia and europe, have a strong presence in australia and they dominate mexico and central america, but like i said they don't specialize in tiny cars with tiny motors, so for decades they've been focusing on their highly profitable star and cash cow products in their primary markets, which were up until recently big-engine suvs, trucks and sports cars in north america. no point in dumping huge money into europe anyway when the growth market is in asia's four tigers economies.

quote:

Originally posted by Paradox Lost Blah blah blah... The same can be said of the Z06, the ZR1, and even the Cobalt SS (which, if memory serves me correctly, set a Nuremberg record for FWD vehicles). It needs to be said, though, that the modern equivalent of American cars compromising on, say, interior quality is dramatically different than how it looked when they did it 20 years ago. In other words, a shitty GM interior actually manages to look pretty damn nice, and if you can forgive certain production decisions in these and other areas, I'd say you have a pretty damn good reason to pick up an American car over the competition. /Neo-Patriotic rant.

1. Nuremberg, seriously

2. Ive done some wor for the local Cadillac dealership (he sells vettes and hummers as well) so ive had the "pleasure" of testing out some of the new vehicles...talking about cutting costs, some of the materials on ym old fiat felt like they were better quality that in the CTS. Also the one thing that ive heard everybody complaining that owns one is something thats very important to us europeans. Brakes. On a CTS they are rubbish and on the Chrysler 300C for example they are downright dangerous.


Oh and the owner did get a Z06 for himself...he used it for about a month i think, then he put it in the shop up for sale (the car hasnt been sold yet) and instead he bought himself a new Lmborghini Gallardo

Oh man, my mistake! Fixed, immediately.

Anyway, I worked at a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealership for a while, and yes, I can vouch for the absolute and utter mechanical ridiculousness that is the 300 lineup. I once took an SRT-8 out, and a block away from the dealership, the power steering went out. Apparently, that was a recurring problem with the 300's, so much so that the service technicians were used to it by now. Oh, and the interior felt like I was riding in a glorified bicycle.

Still, though, compared to the 'luxury interiors' of American cars from the mid to late 90's, I will gleefully roll around in one of their 2009 offerings.

As for the Cadillac you drove, did you drive the base model CTS or CTS-V? I can't verify this at the moment, but I'm fairly confident that the CTS doesn't have the 6 and 4 piston Brembo's that the CTS-V comes equipped with, which will most certainly produce a difference in stopping power between the two cars. There are also some blatant differences in interior materials.

the corvette zr1 set a new lap record on the nurburgring: 7:26.4--1 second over the ferrari enzo, which costs more than six times as much

oh and it comes with the enzo ferrari brakes



the top 10 cars it did beat cost anywhere from 60k more to 11 times more than the zr1

what a piece of shit, huh domesticated?

domesticated is a piece of shit dont mind him.

ya i'll give it a rest i guess. i doubt he'll ever say a damn thing to me about the vette. he probably did some google research and realized he was full of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH the corvette zr1 set a new lap record on the nurburgring: 7:26.4--1 second over the ferrari enzo, which costs more than six times as much oh and it comes with the enzo ferrari brakes the top 10 cars it did beat cost anywhere from 60k more to 11 times more than the zr1 what a piece of shit, huh domesticated?

Were both cars stock, or tweaked for circuit racing?

" Except for some communications and safety gear the ZR1 was totally stock and setup exactly like the ones that will be going on sale. "

according to: http://www.corvettefever.com/featur...ring/index.html

wiki says the same: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B...uction_vehicles

subaru concept, perhaps already b posted


<3 top gear

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated America has never produced a car worth owning. End of story. Ugly, technologically backward, poorly made.

Kind of reminds me of something Jeremy Clarkson said when he was testing the Viper SRT-10: "It's internal combustion, with a hint of spontaneous combustion. It's wayward, it's backward, and I just don't care."

He ultimately walks away with favorable impressions, despite spending the largest percentage of his airtime with it listing grievance after grievance. I think it's the 'raw simplicity' (which he alludes to) of some American cars that endow them with so much appeal.

Hilarious episode, by the way:


Dodge+Viper+SRT10+Top+Gear+Road+Test+and+Review

the best top gear was when jeremy reviewed the chrysler crossfire...hilarious!

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.