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Originally posted by George Smiley Just as an aside, lets assume that Iran does want nuclear weapons... Do you think Iran's desire for nuclear weapons is for defensive or offensive purposes?

If it even is for military purposes i would say Defensive. Look at it from thier point of view. In the last 5 years, neighbor coutires on either side have been invaded by the USA. I dont blame em for wanting nukes.

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Originally posted by jonSun If it even is for military purposes i would say Defensive. Look at it from thier point of view. In the last 5 years, neighbor coutires on either side have been invaded by the USA. I dont blame em for wanting nukes.

Iam glad there are some sane people that understand the situation and really do see the reason why a country like Iran would want to go nuclear.

Iran has no reason to attack anyone unless they are attacked first.

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Originally posted by jonSun I dont blame em for wanting nukes.

Neither do I, but ultimatley we are left with two options.

The suvival of our civilisation or the complete destruction of both!

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Originally posted by George Smiley And where does MAD enter your theory? In fact, can you give me the pros and cons for Iran, assuming your theory is correct?

Oh I dunno, maybe you missed the part about them wanting to blow Isreal off the map and their ongoing proxy war using Hizbullah?

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Sorry I forgot you might read that. How exactly can I simplify that quote so that even you can understand it? Hmmmm...ok... What problems would Iran encounter if they launched nuclear bombs at Israel...and do you think those problems (assuming you think there are any?) would deter Iran from pursuing such an act? (note the word "deter")

Now that its actually coherent...

Where exactly have you been lately?
Iran has until the end of this month to comply with the U.N. on these issues.
Why put the onus on me to point something that blatant out?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Iran has no reason to attack anyone unless they are attacked first.

Minus a handful of hawkish statements about wiping Israel off the map and some "death to America" chants...

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Iran has no reason to attack anyone unless they are attacked first.

Wow.
Just wow.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Minus a handful of hawkish statements about wiping Israel off the map and some "death to America" chants...

Well look at it from Irans point of view. They see the USA bombing and/or invading a new country every 5 years or less. If another coutry was doing that to allies of the States, Bush would be saying a heck of alot worse. Plus Iran has only made statements & thats all, while the USA makes statements & then a year later theres action, while as always thousands of innocent civilians die. Irans behavior has been good compared to the USA & Israel.

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Originally posted by jonSun Plus Iran has only made statements & thats all, while the USA makes statements & then a year later theres action, while as always thousands of innocent civilians die.

Well, you are right, the USA does tell everyone what they're doing, unlike Iran which tries to be sneaky about their goals.

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Irans behavior has been good compared to the USA & Israel.

You mean like their ongoing proxy war with Israel?
Or their continuing non-compliance with the U.N.?
Or going to rallies...



Yea, they've been quite the angel.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Oh I dunno, maybe you missed the part about them wanting to blow Isreal off the map and their ongoing proxy war using Hizbullah?

Any chance of you answering my questions and not skirting round the issue?

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Now that its actually coherent...

I thought you were being sarcastic! Maybe you're not as smart as I thought!

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Where exactly have you been lately? Iran has until the end of this month to comply with the U.N. on these issues. Why put the onus on me to point something that blatant out?

Not quite sure why you are dodging the question (ok so I guess cos it will go against your beliefs) but...

What problems will Iran face if it launches nukes at Israel...

An answer please

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Any chance of you answering my questions and not skirting round the issue? I thought you were being sarcastic! Maybe you're not as smart as I thought! Not quite sure why you are dodging the question (ok so I guess cos it will go against your beliefs) but... What problems will Iran face if it launches nukes at Israel... An answer please

Sorry, did forget that even if the answer is quite obvious.

We all go to hell in a handbasket essentially...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r You mean like their ongoing proxy war with Israel? Or their continuing non-compliance with the U.N.? Or going to rallies... Yea, they've been quite the angel.

I agree Iran is no angel. Thier president has just fueled the fire with some of his crazy statements. Thier govt is very prejudice & opressing to alot of people. But... its obviously what the majority of people want since he was voted in democratically. The States say they are all for democracy but the last time they had influence over Iran they installed a military dictator. And even though Iran is no angel, compared to the States they have been behaving great. A heck of alot more civlilians have died because of the States & a heck of alot more families have been destroyed because of the States.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Sorry, did forget that even if the answer is quite obvious. We all go to hell in a handbasket essentially...

You're still avoiding the question - Iran would be wiped off the face of the earth if it attempted to do the same to Israel so why would Iran do it?

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Originally posted by jonSun I agree Iran is no angel. Thier president has just fueled the fire with some of his crazy statements. Thier govt is very prejudice & opressing to alot of people. But... its obviously what the majority of people want since he was voted in democratically. The States say they are all for democracy but the last time they had influence over Iran they installed a military dictator. And even though Iran is no angel, compared to the States they have been behaving great. A heck of alot more civlilians have died because of the States & a heck of alot more families have been destroyed because of the States.

Don't get me wrong, I may come across as a US yes-man but I don't necessarily agree with everything they do; especially when it comes to us (Canada).
Happily we now have a government that can at least compromise with them unlike our last government which didn't appear to give a rats ass.

As far as the States being the brunt of everyone's whoes, I'd hardly be blaming just them; that's too easy

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley You're still avoiding the question - Iran would be wiped off the face of the earth if it attempted to do the same to Israel so why would Iran do it?

I agree. There is no reason why they would attack Israel. If Iran did launch a nuke at Israel, Irans nieghbors would also be wiped off the planet along with Iran. Even if Iran decided to launch conventional non nuclear missles or bomb Israel, they would still be wiped off the planet or conquered by force. They know that & all thier neighbors know it too.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley You're still avoiding the question - Iran would be wiped off the face of the earth if it attempted to do the same to Israel so why would Iran do it?

What would they care?
They would all become martyrs in their holy Jihad anyways right?

quote:

Originally posted by jonSun I agree. There is no reason why they would attack Israel. If Iran did launch a nuke at Israel, Irans nieghbors would also be wiped off the planet along with Iran. Even if Iran decided to launch conventional non nuclear missles or bomb Israel, they would still be wiped off the planet or conquered by force. They know that & all thier neighbors know it too.

But their actions and words certainly don't support your arguement.
Their continued support of Hizbullah, constant U.N. infractions and speaches of impending doom certainly doesn't sit well with the rest of the world.
You're alright with it?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What would they care? They would all become martyrs in their holy Jihad anyways right?

Regardless of how much you may want to believe the contrary, Iranians aren't hell bend on suicide.

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Originally posted by jonSun I agree. There is no reason why they would attack Israel. If Iran did launch a nuke at Israel, Irans nieghbors would also be wiped off the planet along with Iran.

I guess that is somewhat dependent on where the strike is. Nuclear fallout would be widespread, but the initial blast radius might not be as massive as your statement would imply. Does anyone have any good data on the geographic consequences of a nuke? I think the real end-game theory comes into play when you start talking about multiple nukes being lobbed around in the region. That would probably kill a few million in a heartbeat.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Regardless of how much you may want to believe the contrary, Iranians aren't hell bend on suicide.

It ain't so much your every day Iranians that are the issue. I think that much has been conveyed ad nauseum.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r What would they care? They would all become martyrs in their holy Jihad anyways right?

I thought their aim was to spread Islam around the world?

That's what I am constantly told on here.

They're not gonna be able to do that while they are toast are they?

And what exactly is the difference between the religious fundamentalists in the White House (and half of America) and those in Iran???

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r But their actions and words certainly don't support your arguement. Their continued support of Hizbullah, constant U.N. infractions and speaches of impending doom certainly doesn't sit well with the rest of the world. You're alright with it?

The PLO came out with similar rhetoric during the 70s/80s...now look at them...

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Originally posted by George Smiley I thought their aim was to spread Islam around the world? That's what I am constantly told on here.

That's with any religious agenda though.
Try and find me a church/mosque/temple who's goal doesn't include evangelism.

quote:

They're not gonna be able to do that while they are toast are they?

Definately not, but that doesn't mean they certainly wouldn't try given the chance and their rantings.
That's the whole confusing issue, they don't have the conventional forces to pull anything off (they know that) so the shortcut is nukes which again doesn't make any sense because as you pointed out, it'll be a cold war all over again.

quote:

And what exactly is the difference between the religious fundamentalists in the White House (and half of America) and those in Iran???

The ones over here don't publically call for the distruction of another country constantly...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r That's with any religious agenda though. Try and find me a church/mosque/temple who's goal doesn't include evangelism. Definately not, but that doesn't mean they certainly wouldn't try given the chance and their rantings. That's the whole confusing issue, they don't have the conventional forces to pull anything off (they know that) so the shortcut is nukes which again doesn't make any sense because as you pointed out, it'll be a cold war all over again. The ones over here don't publically call for the distruction of another country constantly...

Can I ask you what you think Iran's motives/plans are in the grand scheme of things?

What does Iran want???

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The PLO came out with similar rhetoric during the 70s/80s...now look at them...

and thankfully they're old news...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Can I ask you what you think Iran's motives/plans are in the grand scheme of things? What does Iran want???

One would hope the Iranian government would want to help it's people but their actions simply aren't reflecting that.

If I could read their minds, believe me I'd love to, but that's the million dollar question isn't it? - What does Iran want?

Until then, all we have to go on is their actions and words which haven't been exactly encouraging.
I'd love to be wrong but it's up to them to prove that now.

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