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damn, nice. i remember this one from years ago...

holy shit... this thing's a stock-bodied street-legal vette running 7 second quarter miles with a 208 mph trap speed

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews I will agree that the corvette isn't in the least a refined car, but it's not supposed to be. Its a performance bargain for those who love raw power, and lots of people love the feeling of a raw power sports car.

That is a ridiculous statement. Experiencing 'raw power' doesn't mean you need to sacrifice refinement or quality of interior. That's just an excuse for the consistently poor interiors of most American cars.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH how is the corvette not mechanically refined when it has literally perfected all the technologies it employs.

It's pretty easy to perfect technology that is old. Did you hear that New York are going to dump their electric trains for steam trains? It's an old technology, but the steam trains are going to be the most efficient of their kind ever. Perfection!

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Originally posted by R!CH 15/24 epa is a pretty impressive fuel economy for a 7 liter 427 big block that turns out 505 hp and 470 tq. find me another sports car that does the same or better. 75 mph avg on the slalom, 1.1 lateral gs on the skid, enough said about the chassis. people have been doubting the technological limits of the corvette for decades and yet it manages to make performance gains in every iteration without impacting the sticker price significantly.

I didn't say anything about it further up the thread, but your statement that American cars can afford to be gas guzzlers because fuel is cheap and your roads are wide is nonsense. I'm very surprised that someone who is so passionate about global warming could make such a statement. It shows your desperation to defend a car which clearly contradicts something you believe in. Just because you can use more resources doesn't mean you should. It is this attitude of Western wastefulness which is depleting the world at such a rapid rate. For no change in price or performance, gas guzzlers like the Corvette could easily reduce their impact on the environment. Such an example would be the implementation of VCM (link). However, most American auto manufacturers wouldn't currently bother to implement such a technology as standard. As you said, they operate on the basis of 'we don't really need to', rather than 'we don't really need to but we know we should'.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH the vette is a simple, raw and honest driving machine. it has never pretended to be anything else. it's pure lasting performance for the performance-minded customer. maybe the leather in the lamborghini feels better against your gucci slacks, but a real driver of performance cars doesn't give a shit about that. you can own a monster corvette and a fully loaded mercedes sedan for less the 'ultra-plush supercars'. the corvette has more aftermarket than any other production car so its stock refinements are not really an issue. the bottom line is if you like the performance of cars like the porsche gt2 and ferrari 599, but aren't a millionaire and value every dollar you make, then the corvette is the de facto sports car for your money. that applies to the 99% of us that like and talk about fast cars. none of the gt1 cars are anything like their production counterparts. by regulation they are all spec'd within very tight tolerances of each other, thus their suspension dynamics are all close and drastically different from production. you're basically pitting chassis and engine block against chassis and engine block. not even the engine is mounted at the same spot. none of this means the coilover they use is better. it could cost 1000% more, offer 10% stiffness gain and ruin the ride quality on city streets.

When did this thread discussion become about the merits of a Corvette versus super cars? I merely stated that American cars are awful. In retrospect, this was silly. I'm sure there are boutique manufacturers making decent products that I'm unaware of. However, no mainstream cars from the big groups are worth owning when compared to those available from elsewhere.

On the cost of a Corvette (Z06) versus power; there are cars with similar performance for the same price. Admittedly, Europe doesn't do this well. However, if you step back to passenger cars rather than performance vehicles, European models are price competitive and deliver a far better product. However, for sheer sports usage, Asian cars are better than a Corvette. A Nissan GT-R is only about $5,000 more and is a far superior car. The Subaru WRX STi Spec C. is $40,000 (almost half the price of a Corvette), but rates almost as well on a track. The Mitshubishi Lancer Evo X GSR performs similarly to the Corvette with a similar price tag. Hell, if you want to be completely stupid and eschew quality, interior and looks as the Corvette does, buy an Ariel Atom for $70,000, or a Caterham CSR for $46,000. All the cars I've named employ superior technology and design.

I've pandered to you by going so far into the discussion on price. Although the overall attractiveness of a car no doubt includes its cost, that is just one element and is fairly insignificant when discussing whether the car is 'good' or not in terms of how it actually drives and operates after it's been purchased.

where to begin.... jesus...

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated That is a ridiculous statement. Experiencing 'raw power' doesn't mean you need to sacrifice refinement or quality of interior. That's just an excuse for the consistently poor interiors of most American cars.

Believe it or not, a lot of people just want performance and don�t want to pay for interior refinement. Refined interiors cost a lot of MONEY. So if i want the same power, and refinement, what are my choices? A Ferrari? A Lamborghini? Those cars cost over double what even the most expensive Corvettes cost. I love that you brought up the Evo and STI. Both of those cars are SHIT BOXES with good engines. I've driven both and the interior refinement is simply awful, the Evo in particular. You act as if every single car has to be excellent at everything. It must have a good interior, it must have good performance, it must be comfortable, it must employ ground breaking technology. Get real, different cars appeal to different people at different price points and in different configurations.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated I didn't say anything about it further up the thread, but your statement that American cars can afford to be gas guzzlers because fuel is cheap and your roads are wide is nonsense. I'm very surprised that someone who is so passionate about global warming could make such a statement. It shows your desperation to defend a car which clearly contradicts something you believe in. Just because you can use more resources doesn't mean you should. It is this attitude of Western wastefulness which is depleting the world at such a rapid rate. For no change in price or performance, gas guzzlers like the Corvette could easily reduce their impact on the environment. Such an example would be the implementation of VCM (link). However, most American auto manufacturers wouldn't currently bother to implement such a technology as standard. As you said, they operate on the basis of 'we don't really need to', rather than 'we don't really need to but we know we should'.

Buying a performance car and caring about mileage is simply hilarious to me. I made a point of illustrating that engine size does not correlate directly to how fuel efficient a car is. That was my only point. Anyone who's buying a car they intend to drive fast, or on a race track, or get performance out of, should not be worried about mileage. My old Golf GTI got great mileage, over 32mpg on the highway, but when I tracked it, it got 5mpg. Again, performance cars all get shitty mileage if they are used like intended. End of story.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated On the cost of a Corvette (Z06) versus power; there are cars with similar performance for the same price. Admittedly, Europe doesn't do this well. However, if you step back to passenger cars rather than performance vehicles, European models are price competitive and deliver a far better product. However, for sheer sports usage, Asian cars are better than a Corvette. A Nissan GT-R is only about $5,000 more and is a far superior car. The Subaru WRX STi Spec C. is $40,000 (almost half the price of a Corvette), but rates almost as well on a track. The Mitshubishi Lancer Evo X GSR performs similarly to the Corvette with a similar price tag. Hell, if you want to be completely stupid and eschew quality, interior and looks as the Corvette does, buy an Ariel Atom for $70,000, or a Caterham CSR for $46,000. All the cars I've named employ superior technology and design.

The GTR costs almost as much as the Corvette, but its service costs are outrageous. Service intervals cost thousands of dollars. Tracking the car (and all I've heard about people tracking them is the car going into limp mode, or the transmission overheating after a few laps) requires a mandatory service otherwise your warranty gets voided. It also has poor support from its producing company, IE illustrating an ability the car has and then proclaiming to its owners "yeah but if you use this feature, we won�t warranty the car. They even went so far as to remov the launch control entirely from the next production year. Also, if anything goes wrong its catastrophically expensive to fix. There was a thread on a UK GTR owner�s forum about a tiny rear end impact that cost the owner 10,000 pounds to fix. ONE FIFTH of the cars value, there goes your price advantage on the GTR. The Evo and STI are great cars to drive, but as I explained earlier, they are GARBAGE to sit in.

There are even European automotive journalists who like American cars. Take Jeremy Clarkson, a man who takes almost any opportunity to berate the Americans for their cars. He LOVES the Ford Mondeo. He has even gone so far as to say "Every time I drive one of these things, I always get out wondering why we buy anything else". Jeremy Clarkson�s opinion obviously isn't gospel, but if a man that typically lampoons everything American can even admit that sometimes they get it right, maybe you can realise you're being ridiculous. Newsflash, the Japanese don't always make the best car, neither do the Americans, neither do the Euros. That's because NO ONE IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME. EVER.

Fine we get it, your anti American Fanboisism knows no bounds. We�re not going to convince you that the Americans make some good cars, and you're not going to convince us that only the Japanese and Europeans make good cars. This thread is about cars you love, so take your ridiculous hate elsewhere. It's boring.

I probably shouldn't have even responded to that post.

Let's stop the hate and get this shit back on track.

I just picked up this to be my new project/daily driver



I've always loved these things. They're great to sit in and drive and the VR6 power plant does very well when boosted. My plan over the next year or so is to build a custom GT35R turbo kit for it. I'm shooting for 450AWHP.

Very Nice. I've always liked the R32's

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH where to begin.... jesus...

Funny, you've spent the better part of the weekend typing extensive posts rebutting my points and all of a sudden you haven't got anything to say. I suppose it's kind of hard when you've contradicted yourself into a corner.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews Believe it or not, a lot of people just want performance and don�t want to pay for interior refinement. Refined interiors cost a lot of MONEY. So if i want the same power, and refinement, what are my choices? A Ferrari? A Lamborghini? Those cars cost over double what even the most expensive Corvettes cost. I love that you brought up the Evo and STI. Both of those cars are SHIT BOXES with good engines. I've driven both and the interior refinement is simply awful, the Evo in particular. You act as if every single car has to be excellent at everything. It must have a good interior, it must have good performance, it must be comfortable, it must employ ground breaking technology. Get real, different cars appeal to different people at different price points and in different configurations.

I wasn't hanging my hat on interiors. I agree, Japanese interiors are generally woeful. Their top performance cars are still better than a Corvette though.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews Buying a performance car and caring about mileage is simply hilarious to me. I made a point of illustrating that engine size does not correlate directly to how fuel efficient a car is. That was my only point. Anyone who's buying a car they intend to drive fast, or on a race track, or get performance out of, should not be worried about mileage. My old Golf GTI got great mileage, over 32mpg on the highway, but when I tracked it, it got 5mpg. Again, performance cars all get shitty mileage if they are used like intended. End of story.

There is a difference between making a fast car and completely disregarding environmental impact and making a fast car then trying to limit it's environmental impact. Look at the gains Porsche has made over the past five years with emissions.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews The GTR costs almost as much as the Corvette, but its service costs are outrageous. Service intervals cost thousands of dollars. Tracking the car (and all I've heard about people tracking them is the car going into limp mode, or the transmission overheating after a few laps) requires a mandatory service otherwise your warranty gets voided. It also has poor support from its producing company, IE illustrating an ability the car has and then proclaiming to its owners "yeah but if you use this feature, we won�t warranty the car. They even went so far as to remov the launch control entirely from the next production year. Also, if anything goes wrong its catastrophically expensive to fix. There was a thread on a UK GTR owner�s forum about a tiny rear end impact that cost the owner 10,000 pounds to fix. ONE FIFTH of the cars value, there goes your price advantage on the GTR. The Evo and STI are great cars to drive, but as I explained earlier, they are GARBAGE to sit in.

Okay, I wasn't aware of that. Point taken. However, my original point remains that there are cars with similar performance that cost roughly the same as the Corvette; the WRX and the Evo X.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews I probably shouldn't have even responded to that post. Let's stop the hate and get this shit back on track. I just picked up this to be my new project/daily driver I've always loved these things. They're great to sit in and drive and the VR6 power plant does very well when boosted. My plan over the next year or so is to build a custom GT35R turbo kit for it. I'm shooting for 450AWHP.

Nice...you'll have fun with that!

My neighbor's got a last-gen R32 and loves it.

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Okay, I wasn't aware of that.

you aren't really aware of much apparently. yet you talk the loudest as if you do. your scatterbrained posts consist of straw man arguments, uninformed opinion, ambiguous assertions, reduction to the absurd, ad hominem and digression. when you aren't compartmentalizing your rationale, you're trying your hardest to make this an argument about me. at the same time you haven't made a single well-versed observation about the corvette. you're simply grasping for straws when the bottom line is that you have no first-hand knowledge or experience with the car you're so vehemently attacking. i've already made my point and you obviously aren't convincing anyone of anything here. for me to pick apart your posts would be waste of time because you are so patently unconvincing. i'll just let you keep making a fool of yourself on your own cause you clearly don't need my help.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Andrews I probably shouldn't have even responded to that post. Let's stop the hate and get this shit back on track. I just picked up this to be my new project/daily driver I've always loved these things. They're great to sit in and drive and the VR6 power plant does very well when boosted. My plan over the next year or so is to build a custom GT35R turbo kit for it. I'm shooting for 450AWHP.

Nice! You're in Canada and coming to my neck of the woods (they look like VA plates) for an R32? Must be a good one!

My wife has a GTI (not an R32) in black a bit like that we both enjoy and my brother has the current Edition 30 that is a right laugh. He lives on an island with small roads and it is the perfect car for that environment.

Indeed I am coming down to VA to pick the car up. We never got them here in Canada, and when the government finally harmonized the bumper standards I decided to pick one up.

I`ll be coming down on the 30th of December and doing the drive back with a friend over the next four days. We are going to stop in Chicago for NYE. Hopefully we can find something awesome for that night. I have to say though, its difficult to find solid information on DJ`s playing in Chicago on NYE.

Back to cars.

I`m a huge wagon fan. If they weren`t so unreliable I would own a B5 Audi S4 Avant and I would have done a widebody RS4 conversion on it.



Or if they weren`t so slow, I would own a B7 A-line A4 Avant.

In the end and I mean at the finish line, Its me and RICH drinking and smoking some nice cigars cause in the end american muscle will always rule the streets of america and thats a fact bitches, now more pics of those sweet rides

My current daily driver.

493bhp, 590lb/ft of torque and she'll massage my bottom on the way to work. That's a car I can love.

Designed/manufactured/tested & raced by my friends/peers and I





You should see the rich teams...

quote:

Originally posted by mdamon7278 In the end and I mean at the finish line, Its me and RICH drinking and smoking some nice cigars cause in the end american muscle will always rule the streets of america and thats a fact bitches, now more pics of those sweet rides

time for more arguments

quote:

Originally posted by Leif Designed/manufactured/tested & raced by my friends/peers and I

Hey, i drove that once!



Not the real one obviously

http://www.lfs.net/?page=contents&car=mrt5

My dad bought this a few days ago. He's been wanting one of these forever.




Over 500 hp and torque. Car weights ~2000 lbs!

It is an absolute beast but one of the toughest cars he's ever driven he says (he won't let me touch it yet).

http://www.ambassadorautosales.com/...-COBRA-AVIS.htm

Cobra! Sick car

quote:

Originally posted by Leif Designed/manufactured/tested & raced by my friends/peers and I You should see the rich teams...

Nice!!! What engines are in those? 600's? 1000's?

New Ferrari 458 Italia

quote:

Originally posted by Simon_N New Ferrari 458 Italia

That to...

quote:

Originally posted by Simon_N New Ferrari 458 Italia

From the same people that give us Jersey Shore, give us rides like that

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