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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp the truth is (as proven by nasa recently) that einstein was right, and newton was wrong. gravity is a phenomenon caused by large masses distorting the space time fabric.......

I didn't hear that, but it's cool to see his work validated finally.

As far as my argument goes, my point was that things tend to fall at 9.8 M/S ^2 on Earth. I'll have to see if I can find how fast something would on other planets.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Your a loser.

Debate over. He wins.

quote:

Originally posted by WM2 This is hilarious to me. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you think only explosives would make concrete or more likely cement turn into dust. Did you know that the higher the floor is in a building the more air pockets engineers allow in the mixture to make it lighter. Cement is also a ceramic which does not react well to any kind of sudden shock. It's also made using this interesting dust like material called sand.

dispite my disagreements with shaolin's views, he had it right... concrete.

concrete is a mixture of portland cement, small aggregate (sand) and large aggregate (crushed stone) to form a non homogenus building material.

cement - ie portland cement is a binder, an ingrediant wich is hydrophobic and bonds together elements in a mixture. without the aggregates both fine and coarse, cement is very weak. its like glue. glue is great at bonding things, but if you were to pour a slab of white glue, its brittle and weak.....


ps fuck spelling im hammered...... i just got hired at NCE engineering and im celebrating with poutine, labatt 5o and a whole brisket of montreal smoked meat

quote:

Originally posted by WM2 This is hilarious to me. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you think only explosives would make concrete or more likely cement turn into dust. Did you know that the higher the floor is in a building the more air pockets engineers allow in the mixture to make it lighter. Cement is also a ceramic which does not react well to any kind of sudden shock. It's also made using this interesting dust like material called sand.

furthermore, what you are speaking about is called air entrainment. and the amount of air entrained into concrete is negligible. more commonly for light weight concrete applications they employ modifiers such as VMA and Super P (viscosity modifying agent and super plasticizer) to reduce the ammount of water required in teh mixture. as well as using less dense agregate such as limestone, which is pretty common as it is. but for non weight critical applications, they commonly use slag (byproduct of smelting). fly ash from coal fired power plants may also be used as a substitue for portland cement up to a certain percentage as portland is quite pricy. the shock isnt what causes concrete to pulverize. when it fails in flexture it literally blows apart. ive done some lab work iwth one of my proffs on high strength concrete beam design (80 MPA mix) and when those things fail in bending. or compression the concrete grenades.... concrete also spalls wehn it is heated... spalling is when the water in the concrete vaporizes and causes heated gas pockets to form. these blow small pieces of concrete off the surface.

Okay. I figured I was probably a little off, but I've not messed with a whole lot of concrete yet. That's flipping sweet though that it blows apart. I want to try that sometime, but I doubt I'll get to as I'm pretty much playing with metals and polymers since we don't use a whole lot of ceramics in cars.

quote:

Originally posted by WM2 Okay. I figured I was probably a little off, but I've not messed with a whole lot of concrete yet. That's flipping sweet though that it blows apart. I want to try that sometime, but I doubt I'll get to as I'm pretty much playing with metals and polymers since we don't use a whole lot of ceramics in cars.

well clutch packs and brake pads....... but ya other than that not much ceramic in cars. i worked for ford motor company for 5 years as an engineering intern.....

Then you have spark plugs and the tips of diesel engine fuel injectors, and that's about it unless you count after market exhaust systems. Not a whole lot going on until we figure out a way to make them more elastic.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers My point being, is if it wasn't the same building design, it's not a valid comparison.

How many drowning victims do you need as proof that a ship sank at sea?

9/11 truth conspiracies are nothing but garbage. Plain and simple.

The handling of the aftermath isn't a prerequisite to blame the actual event on the government.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 How many drowning victims do you need as proof that a ship sank at sea?

all you are doing is over simplifying things in a vain attempt to prove your point. no two buildings are built alike and no two buildings will fail in the same manner.... just give it up with your drowning sailors

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp all you are doing is over simplifying things in a vain attempt to prove your point. no two buildings are built alike and no two buildings will fail in the same manner.... just give it up with your drowning sailors

yeah, its funny when you try and nail down a single topic of contention with these fruitcakes. they love to move the goalposts, dance around the issues, or make poor fallacious analogies.

everytime you try and engage them, things get awfully vague from their end

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, its funny when you try and nail down a single topic of contention with these fruitcakes. they love to move the goalposts, dance around the issues, or make poor fallacious analogies. everytime you try and engage them, things get awfully vague from their end

ya sometimes it feels like im talking to myself......

Former EPA Chief Refuses to Testify on Post-9/11 Air Quality


Christine Todd Whitman, the former administrator at the Environmental Protection Agency, has refused to testify before a congressional subcommittee, regarding the government's handling of the air quality at the World Trade Center site following the 9/11 attacks.

In refusing to testify, Whitman's attorney cited that the former New Jersey governor is named as a defendant in two lawsuits involving her statements on air quality following the attacks.

Her attorney, Joel Kobert, also said in a letter to the subcommittee that Whitman "would be unlikely to assist the Subcommittee on this subject" because she is not a lawyer.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., the chairman of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties, said today he will continue to "strongly urge her to cooperate" and to appear at the hearing. He added he hoped he would not have to resort to the "compulsory process."

"I would strongly urge the Administration to encourage her appearance, given her absolutely central role in these matters, so that the American people may finally hear her direct answers to lingering, unanswered questions about the federal government's failed response to the environmental aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks," said Rep. Nadler.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter...r_epa_chie.html

Get your VCR's ready.....


Loose Change Creators on The View May 24th

According to a release from ABC, Korey Rowe and Dylan Avery, creators of the 9/11 conspiracy documentary Loose Change will appear on the May 24th show. Also listed is William Rodriguez, who was a janitor at the North Tower of the World Trade Center, who has since become part of the 9/11 truth movement. The only other guests listed for that date are the winners of Dancing With the Stars, so it appears that the show will not have representatives from both sides of the topic. Rosie O�Donnell has said before that we have been hearing the other side for years, so maybe the show will only cover the topic from one angle. However, since the show line-up often goes through changes before the show is taped, it is possible that they might be adding additional guests. It is also possible that they might have the other side in another segment on a different day.

If you are unfamiliar with the documentary, it is available on YouTube.

http://www.watchingtheview.com/loose-change-creators-on-the-view-may-24th/

Word is Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin will appear on a separate show to counter the f**kers over at Popular Mechanics, if they bother to show up for the shit kicking they will receive.

Loose Change Final Cut narrated by Charlie Sheen and backed by Mark Cuban is due to hit theaters nation wide this coming September 11.

The truth always comes out.

dylan avery is an ignorant little child, with no capacity to debate the issue. not dissimilar from our friend cretinrot.

i'd still like to know why steven jones STILL hasn't had his paper receive rigorous peer review. if he's so sure of his science, what is he afraid of? the only people dumb enough to be swayed by a scientific article that hasn't received peer review, are the juvenile internet detectives that don't know how to research properly.

oh yeah, my VCR is just itching!

that would actually be a episode of the view worth watching, just to see who sounds more retarded, those two douchebags or that fat fuck odonnel

Those last two posts is the best you guys can come up with?

Figures, attack the messenger and not the message.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Those last two posts is the best you guys can come up with? Figures, attack the messenger and not the message.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Your a loser.

Err?

I was referring to the attacks on the legitimate people that will be on The View next week.

How come these assholes do not make fun of William Rodriguez who was a janitor at the World Trade Center? This guy heard explosions going off before one of the planes even hit the tower he was in and carried out victims missing their skin due to basement explosions.

Let them tell you that it was the jet fuel that caused these explosions while keeping in mind the plane did not hit the tower yet.

Seems these official conspiracy nuts are the ones who like moving the goal posts around making assumptions from watching CNN, reading bullshit reports from NIST and screwloosechange.

The people who where actually there on 911 are singing a very different tune, the rescue workers, families of victims and victims who survived including William Rodriguez.

These people in the minds of these official conspiracy dicks must all be "fruitcakes" as well considering they believe in a very different story then what the rest of the world was told.

You can sit here all day and debate how concrete turns into dust, building collapses defying laws of physics, molten metal present under all three towers and military stand downs if you want.

Take the word from the people who where there and not some dicks that think because they have a university diploma and a loud mouth they can freely offend the people who speak the truth about 9/11.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut I was referring to the attacks on the legitimate people that will be on The View next week. How come these assholes do not make fun of William Rodriguez who was a janitor at the World Trade Center? This guy heard explosions going off before one of the planes even hit the tower he was in and carried out victims missing their skin due to basement explosions. Let them tell you that it was the jet fuel that caused these explosions while keeping in mind the plane did not hit the tower yet. Seems these official conspiracy nuts are the ones who like moving the goal posts around making assumptions from watching CNN, reading bullshit reports from NIST and screwloosechange. The people who where actually there on 911 are singing a very different tune, the rescue workers, families of victims and victims who survived including William Rodriguez. These people in the minds of these official conspiracy dicks must all be "fruitcakes" as well considering they believe in a very different story then what the rest of the world was told. You can sit here all day and debate how concrete turns into dust, building collapses defying laws of physics, molten metal present under all three towers and military stand downs if you want. Take the word from the people who where there and not some dicks that think because they have a university diploma and a loud mouth they can freely offend the people who speak the truth about 9/11.

do you know why i discredit the "eye witness" testimony of a janitor? because he heard something..... if your in the woods and you hear a loud bang can you honestly say it was a gunshot or maybe it was a firecracker. my point is alot of the time people will fill in the blanks to make some stimulus make sense to them. ie they heard a bang, it was an explosion.... not only that but janitors dont have the best track record for being the sharpest tools in the shed.....

and further more, weather or not there were or were not basement explosions, the buildings collapsed from the top down not the bottom up.

your out of your league on this one. loose change is about as factually acurate as a michael moore film... they show the footage and interviews that support their weak conclusions... its not objective at all.

frankly a bunch of web dorks armed with youtube and google videos is a mere fart in the wind compared to the studies and findings of the ASCE (american society of civil engineers) their independant sudy came to the same conclusions as the FEMA report. and in my mind that satisfys the issue.

1. What is the melting point of steel?

2. How hot was thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning on a select few floors.

Answer: Steel alloys generally melt around 2500F. Jet fuel burns at its maximum at 1796F. With 10,000 gallons of fuels, tons of conbustable fuels (paper, fabrics, walls, etc.), and time, and already weakened structure could be much further weakened by a raging inferno hot enough to bend steel without cracking it.



A source

The 'melting point of steel' argument argument is so tired and so easy to debunk it is not even funny any more.



MrS

Please refer me to any crediable evidence that 9/11 was a secret conspiracy orchestrated by the US government.

Because it doesn't appear their plan for world-domination is working. So I guess in the conspiracy wackos minds, the secret plan backfired!

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Please refer me to any crediable evidence that 9/11 was a secret conspiracy orchestrated by the US government. Because it doesn't appear their plan for world-domination is working. So I guess in the conspiracy wackos minds, the secret plan backfired!

If that was aimed at me you misunderstood the aim of my comment.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. As a certified structural welder, I know a lot more about how steel reacts under different temperatures than your average "truther".


MrS

Then what caused the structural failure of the twin tower?

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