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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Yes 134 60.09%
No 89 39.91%

Stomping the majority huh? LOL.

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Originally posted by culorut Yes 134 60.09% No 89 39.91% Stomping the majority huh? LOL.

which meant thrashing the little children like you around on this topic, even if most of you are too dense to even realise you're being beaten in the argument. for instance, your continued reference to what an internet poll on a music website says, like this somehow has some meaning? well it probably does for you, because you'll just store this piece of information away, and use it as "evidence" just like the scholars use and twist everything.

keep it up child.

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wrong. no peer review = you got nothing.

No you are not doing a good job. Take a peak at my previous post.

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somehow im gonna listen to the musings of one of the world's great intellects over an under-educated child like yourself.

Great intellects are not perfect and do make false notions. Try not so hard to place so much faith in others and use your own thick skull for a second if that's remotely possible.

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it was hardly perfectly symmetrical. that's about as bad as your people's contention that WTC1&2 fell on their own "footprint". yeah, coz their footprint was 400 feet in every direction.

It was symmetrical.



WTC 1 and 2 had debris shooting outwards over 400 feet because of bombs and not that crazy gravity driven official collapse story.

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and yet your side of the argument still hasn't produced anything near the complexity of the NIST report. you'v had six years too. what's keeping you?

The masses seem to disagree without the NIST report, it is not needed.

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Originally posted by culorut No you are not doing a good job. Take a peak at my previous post.

no peer review. thats all that counts mate.

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Originally posted by culorut Great intellects are not perfect and do make false notions. Try not so hard to place so much faith in others and use your own thick skull for a second if that's remotely possible.

but im not putting so much faith in chomsky (tho its interesting that you still like to point at the vote, as if that means a damned thing!

i do put a great deal of faith into the world's structural engineers however.

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Originally posted by culorut It was symmetrical.

not really. also, why do you keep posting that video instead of the full version? which shows the building took about 18 seconds to fall? why so disingenuous??

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Note just past building 7 is a small amount of debris on the white building behind it. (Building 7 is pile in the upper center-left of the photo. The white building is at the top center-left of the photo.) That building is to the north east corner of building 7. Note about 1/3rd of the east side of the building falling to the north in the photo below. Here is another photo from over Building 7. The white building is on the left. Note the debris from building 7 which crossed the street and landed on top of the white building. This suggests the building was split by the penthouse collapses most of the way down. One section went to the south-east while a smaller section went to the north. It wasn't that symmetrical. Below are snapshots from a video taken from the northeast of Building 7 just as it collapses. Note that it has just begun to collapse and it is already tilting to the south.

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Half way through and it's still tilted to the south. Note the west side of the building has come away from the west face around what used to be the 43rd floor. Light can be seen through the east face windows.

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Note the angle to the south has increased and so has the space between the west face and the rest of the building. The west face later lays on the Verizon building to the west. While it looks like it's about to hit the ground, it's still almost as high as the white building to the right. That makes it about 20 stories.

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If the majority of the building fell to the south-east based on the resulting debris locations, as conspiracy theorists point out, it is evidence for a normal collapse by fire. I think they're right.

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Originally posted by culorut WTC 1 and 2 had debris shooting outwards over 400 feet because of bombs and not that crazy gravity driven official collapse story.

serious LOL. so now its not really a controlled demolition at all- its really an explosion. could you PLEASE (im in the mood for a good laugh) explain to me how thermite causes such explosions. wow, you kids will believe anything!

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Originally posted by culorut The masses seem to disagree without the NIST report, it is not needed.

what "masses"? coz you my friend, are not nearly expert enough to contradict a single thing from NIST. and the NIST reports are (more or less) supported by expert engineers.

im still waiting for your conspiracy, peer-reviewed or published paper. tick tock. where is it? if its all so obvious, why hasn't someone with the professional commitment to truth been published huh? man, id be pretty disappointed if i were you. 6 years is a long time to sit in the dark awaiting just ONE expert.

tick tock.

you can use your minds to analyze the political aspects of a cover up to your hearts content, because frankly i dont really give a shit.

just stop posting youtube videos and quotes from CT sites to show "conclusive evidence" to support your bullshit theories when this evidence has not been corroborated by an independent study, it has not had its results and conclusions peer reviewed by experts in the field of FMEA forensics (structural engineers)

another proper engineering investigation would take 2-5 years to do properly, cost millions of dollars (i would estimate between 15-20M) But even if it was done you would all just sit here and discredit it based on the fact that the monies to pay for such a study would no doubt somehow come from some government coffer....

:/
My opinion is that the US government had no part in organizing the 9/11 attacks, although they seemed to be very happy that an event like this would occur as to begin fulfilling their own agenda. I think it was just absolute sheer "luck" of the draw that in a time of critical reform, this ominous administration just happened to be in place.

also, my bandwidth is completely fucked (so i can't watch all these videos), but the video of that engineer who led his presentation with the "explosions" coming from lower floors of the collapsing WTC buildings was completely full of shit.
also, the fact that all these truth websites seem to be run on a .COMmercial domain as well as FILLED with AdSense, makes it seem that even if someone were to come out with an absolute definitive answer to 9/11 that disproves the theories of whatever these half assed engineers/Youtube college drop-outs can fathom next, they will keep their mouths shut and continue to ask for "donations"
Shit there are still people in secluded areas of America that reject the ideas of the sun's position in our galaxy or 'witchcraft' of batteries.

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp just stop posting youtube videos and quotes from CT sites to show "conclusive evidence" to support your bullshit theories when this evidence has not been corroborated by an independent study, it has not had its results and conclusions peer reviewed by experts in the field of FMEA forensics (structural engineers) another proper engineering investigation would take 2-5 years to do properly, cost millions of dollars (i would estimate between 15-20M) But even if it was done you would all just sit here and discredit it based on the fact that the monies to pay for such a study would no doubt somehow come from some government coffer....

This is my major complaint about any truth movement material. I've even read a paper by physics prof. that didn't have one equation in it.

I disagree with the engineering analysis costs though. A simple model would take 2 graduate level students a year to make and would require office space + computers.

Say 100,000 / year for grad students, 5,000 per computer, 50,000 for office space, 10,000 for travel, 5,000 for office supplies.

That's 275,000 for a primary analysis of the problem by non-partisan experts. Why has the truth movement been spending on publicity when it could get this done?

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Originally posted by culorut The government should have spent more money on studying the collapses in the first place. If they say the towers fell the way they did they could have spent more then they did on investigating Clinton over a blow job. If all you have read on the issue seems "grade 9ish" you need to start looking a little harder, there is plenty of solid material available.

Please feel free to post all of the equations you've had the chance to scrutinize and I would be happy to offer my professional opinion.

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Originally posted by atbell This is my major complaint about any truth movement material. I've even read a paper by physics prof. that didn't have one equation in it. I disagree with the engineering analysis costs though. A simple model would take 2 graduate level students a year to make and would require office space + computers. Say 100,000 / year for grad students, 5,000 per computer, 50,000 for office space, 10,000 for travel, 5,000 for office supplies. That's 275,000 for a primary analysis of the problem by non-partisan experts. Why has the truth movement been spending on publicity when it could get this done?

while i appreciate our shared view of professional analysis.....


you have no idea how much it costs for engineering analysis. im currently working on a project here in ottawa, designing a bridge spanning about 900m. project scope is that it will take 2 years to complete the design at a cost of 2 million CDN.


it would better suit society if it were post grad, engineers with years of field experience doing the study. No offense to grad students..... but in cases like this practical knowledge is key in these types of analysis

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp you can use your minds to analyze the political aspects of a cover up to your hearts content, because frankly i dont really give a shit. just stop posting youtube videos and quotes from CT sites to show "conclusive evidence" to support your bullshit theories when this evidence has not been corroborated by an independent study, it has not had its results and conclusions peer reviewed by experts in the field of FMEA forensics (structural engineers) another proper engineering investigation would take 2-5 years to do properly, cost millions of dollars (i would estimate between 15-20M) But even if it was done you would all just sit here and discredit it based on the fact that the monies to pay for such a study would no doubt somehow come from some government coffer....

Yeah, so much for any real investigation - I'd be happy just to get a non-partisan, independent study!!! I think that we American's deserve at least that much!!!

No more cover-up reports! We need civilians who aren't in the pockets of big-business and government who are actually dedicated to seeking the truth as opposed to just serving corporate interests by "doing their jobs" (i.e. - looking the other way.)

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp while i appreciate our shared view of professional analysis..... you have no idea how much it costs for engineering analysis. im currently working on a project here in ottawa, designing a bridge spanning about 900m. project scope is that it will take 2 years to complete the design at a cost of 2 million CDN. it would better suit society if it were post grad, engineers with years of field experience doing the study. No offense to grad students..... but in cases like this practical knowledge is key in these types of analysis

The cost is why a pre-analysis should be done by graduate level people before a 2 million dollar project is taken up. A cheap initial analysis would give a cursory understanding and basic numbers that could be used to determine if further study by seasoned P.Eng types should be carried out.

If the initial work done by the students is EXTREMLY confident that there is nothing questionable it would save considerable funds.

I'm not talking about a finite element analysis or anythign like that. Just a fact finding and primary research type of analysis.

That is the most explosive fire I have ever seen.

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Buildings do not do this spontaneously

LOL



I have always said that the evidence was in the steel that was carted off and eventually smelted down to make way for a new USN boat.

The non or pro explosives evidence in the steel would sort this demolition/fire collapse monkey business once and for all.

But since the steel is gone, people are relying on the swill the media and others are pouring on their plates.



Here come the boys from Langley and their nonsensical forum rantings...

Rudy's 9/11 Failures of Leadership Exposed by Fire Fighters

Wednesday July 11 2007




The International Association of Fire Fighters, headquartered in Washington, DC, represents more than 280,000 full-time professional fire fighters and paramedics in every state in the United States and in Canada. More information is available at www.iaff.org and at www.rudy-urbanlegend.com.

I guess the firefighters really do not agree with the official story after all.

great logic here.

firefighters think guiliani is incompetent

therefore

there was a government conspiracy.

woohoo!! fight the power!!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN great logic here. firefighters think guiliani is incompetent therefore there was a government conspiracy. woohoo!! fight the power!!

Yes because that 200 million in gold was more important then the 121 firefighters who lost their lives trying to save the victims on 9/11. Once the gold was found they got rid of the evidence which included the firefighters and victims bodies.

Deliberately incompetent is more like it, money and politics was the important thing here and you are the craziest motherfukin troll on the planet if you cannot see it.

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Originally posted by culorut Yes because that 200 million in gold was more important then the 121 firefighters who lost their lives trying to save the victims on 9/11. Once the gold was found they got rid of the evidence which included the firefighters and victims bodies.

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Noam Chompsky is recorded pointing out that if there was a cover up the amount of people involved and the massive scale of the operation suggest that there would be more concret evidence surfacing saying as much. I tend to agree with him on this point.

I think this is the best argument on the whole debate. I've been on either side of the fence these past few years I just can't see how they would pull it off. They wouldn't be able to cover up this up for this long, considering how many people and resources they would need. And after reading books on intelligence, I doubt they'd be able to find enough competent people to go through with this and cover their tracks this well.

Having said that, I do think the US government did have some knowledge of it and chose not to act on it. It IS a little suspicious that even after repeated emergency warnings about an imminent strike dating back all the way to January 2001, the Bush Administration chose to ignore the warnings.

Also, those asking the conspiracy theorists to form a group of "experts" to investigate this. Give me a break. Why don't you ask them to figure out whether there's life on other planets while you're at it. This cannot be recreated accurately. It will also never be properly investigated, with complete transparency. Ever.

To be honest, we'll never, ever know the complete truth on this. At least, not for a few decades and by then, nobody will care.

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To be honest, we'll never, ever know the complete truth on this. At least, not for a few decades and by then, nobody will care.

We might never know the complete truth I agree but people do care. The very reason I posted the video is to show that people do care, they do not want incompetent people in power or running for president.

Giuliani lied on the record as seen in the video regarding the communication between the firefighters. They left out testimonies from others in the 9/11 commission report and cherry picked their lies only to be later published in the white wash book.

Sounds like there was much more to hide then just warnings from other countries about the attacks to NY.

Their modo, lie and keep lying while suppressing the truth. It has worked wonders for many years, until now.

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Originally posted by culorut We might never know the complete truth I agree but people do care. The very reason I posted the video is to show that people do care, they do not want incompetent people in power or running for president. Giuliani lied on the record as seen in the video regarding the communication between the firefighters. They left out testimonies from others in the 9/11 commission report and cherry picked their lies only to be later published in the white wash book. Sounds like there was much more to hide then just warnings from other countries about the attacks to NY. Their modo, lie and keep lying while suppressing the truth. It has worked wonders for many years, until now.

I'm reading "The Secret History of the CIA" right now. You're right. Lying has worked for years. Just like the "family jewels" that were released last month (which, btw, all of which were mentioned in this book a year before).

They lie to save face. Then release the truth at a time when it doesn't matter because most of the people involved are already dead. Just like with 9/11, we'll know so much more about it in 2020 than we do now.

Castro Suggests Washington Fails To Stop Attacks On US Soil To Justify War On Terror


Havana: Fidel Castro suggested that Washington has deliberately failed to stop terrorist attacks against Americans because it needed to "deliver a bang" that would justify its war on terror.

In the latest in a series of essays that Cuba's 80-year-old Maximum leader has begun writing every few days, Castro on Sunday seized on U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff's comments this past week expressing a "gut feeling" that the United States faces an increased risk of attack this summer.

"The government of the United States sees and hears all, with or without legal authority," Castro wrote. "They can prevent any attack on their people, unless there is some imperial need to deliver a bang so that they can carry on with and justify the brutal war which has been declared against the culture, religion, economy and independence of other peoples."

The accusation came at the end of an essay titled "Bush, Health and Education," in which Castro claimed Cubans are better cared for than Americans, and that his poor island nation and its legions of doctors working around Latin America have done more for the region than the U.S. ever will.

Published in the Communist Party youth newspaper Juventud Rebelde, the essay criticized U.S. President George W. Bush for suggesting that recent U.S. initiatives have provided quality medical care to Latin Americans.

"In Cuba, where health care is not a commodity, we can do things that Bush cannot even dream of," he wrote.

Castro singled out the USNS Comfort, a Navy medical ship staffed by hundreds of American doctors and nurses dispatched to treat the poor in Central America.

"Bush knows that he is lying and that his tall tales are hard to swallow, but he doesn't care," Castro wrote. "He is confident that if he repeats it a thousand times, many will finally believe him."

Castro said "The Comfort, with more than 800 people on board, that is, medical staff and crew, will not be able to look after great numbers of people." He added that despite Washington's 45-year-old trade embargo, "Bush is discovering that the economic and political system of his empire cannot compete with Cuba in vital services, such as health care and education."

Castro did not mention the recent U.S. movie "Sicko," in which filmmaker Michael Moore compares Cuba's health care system favorably to the United States'.

Recuperating in an undisclosed location, Castro has not been seen in public since announcing last July 31 that emergency intestinal surgery had forced him to cede power to a provisional government headed by his 75-year-old brother Raul.

For weeks he has published the frequent essays, known as "Reflections of the Commander in Chief," in which he has touched on issues ranging from U.S.-backed plans to use food crops for biofuels to complaints about Cuba's economy and hints about why his recovery is taking so long. Castro's writings seem to show he is in no hurry to return to power.

On Sunday, he also accused Washington of causing an international brain drain, saying that nearly half the foreigners who receive advanced schooling in the United States later opt to stay there.

"Third World countries do not have the resources to set up scientific research centers, while Cuba has created these even if its own professionals have often been enticed and encouraged to defect," Castro wrote.

The U.S. embargo prohibits American tourists from visiting Cuba while severely limiting trade between both countries. Castro claimed Washington uses the policy to discourage international medical equipment manufacturers from selling replacement parts to Cuban hospitals.

"It is disgusting," he wrote.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007...Cuba-Castro.php

Even my aquaintances in the OTO, Golden Dawn, and the handful of masons I know admit 9-11 was an inside job. LOL, you guys are fucking retarded.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Even my aquaintances in the OTO, Golden Dawn, and the handful of masons I know admit 9-11 was an inside job. LOL, you guys are fucking retarded.

How dare you say something like that?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer How dare you say something like that?

LOL, what do you mean? Not everyone in a secret order is evil you know, although they are pretty deluded as to what their "fraternal brotherhood" is all about. One of the nicest guys I know is a gnostic hedonist in the Golden Dawn.

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