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-- Armin van Buuren's downfall
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Originally posted by UWM Blah blah 'boring prog drivel' ... Who are the elitists ?

An elitist looks down on people for their tastes and thinks he is better than them. That's not the case here is it?

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Originally posted by UWM I used to think that until I saw PvD this weekend - His technical and musical abilities put Armin to shame. If you want me to go into depth and argue why I believe that, I will.

totally, anyone who thinks armin is a better dj that pvd has no clue whatsoever. pvd can get any tune and make it sound amazing in a set his sets make u wanna dance, whereas armins are just boring, slow and predictable. armin is nowhere near as techinically good as pvd.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance The bad thing about Armin is that his style has been rotting into McProg Kraft in order to appeal to the American mp3 kiddies.

so true, dance music is newer to the usa than anywhere in europe, yet all the americans are suddenly experts, but hey, they are the best at everything rite? or so they think

hey man

you're absolutely right. armin rulez
but pvd, tiesto and corsten are good also.

peace,

quote:

Originally posted by Fresh Prince I think you got it all wrong, Armin is on his way up to be #1 DJ, maybe not this year, but next for sure. You say he plays cheese, well it's the tunes most people in the clubs around the world like, so if that's cheese fuck it just look at anywhere he goes, people know the tunes he plays because they listen to ASOT and his sets, and not because they're played on local radio. Personally I don't like what happens to #1 DJs, they get bashed all the time, heck even now when he's #3 you start this thread I fear to think what people will write when he's #1 but it's his dream so be it. ... His label and tunes he's signing and promoting on ASOT is great opportunity for new talents to make a career for themselves. And finally, Armin himself said "trance sound" is changing, so you can't expect him to play same old tunes he played 5 years ago, they were brilliant sure, but we 'heard that' and now you gotta move on. Just look at how many non-vocal tunes he plays during his gigs, if that's not trance I don't know what is. I think all of you negative posting people are just too bored as guy before me wrote. All respect to Armin and his work, whether he becomes #1 or not he's a true trance DJ and isn't ashamed to admit it in today's world when trance music is still making a break for itself around the world.

hey

I guess it is not all about business. If you consider that lost of people cannot afford to buy a even a vinyl (and vinyl player for that), you can understand what I mean. Lots of DJs in the world can thank mp3 and Internet for being so popular.
So it is about music. But you're right : GO LISTEN WHATEVER YOU WANT !

music is life,

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Originally posted by Luke We are just spoiled. And for everyone who says Armin is self promoting his label on ASOT, WELL YA OF COURSE HE IS. He is making a living producing tracks, djing, and running a label. We would all do the same. In the end it is up to the public to buy the records, if tehy are poor, they wotn sell. Its business.

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Originally posted by UWM What the fuck?

That quote was made within the context of the cheese + fast food analogies.

Yeah right... I do had a laugh on most of your reactions...
Always flaming the populair dj's of the moment... If you don't like, just find another favourite dj.. No one forces you to listen or visit Armin van Buuren.

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Originally posted by Robert As for Armin, I don't think it's quite fair to judge too much on what you hear on ASOT. The idea of ASOT is to play new (unreleased) stuff, which is what he does. If the tracks aren't what they used to be anymore, that's not really up to him then is it? He just plays what's new... Not liking his own stuff (anymore) is up to you. Some people enjoy it, others don't... Of course my opinion is biased as Armada has brainwashed me and I must step in once something "bad" has been said about Armada or Armin...

100% true, and I'm not brainwashed by Armada

Your just spoiled with ASOT, and maybe some of you see him live once in a while (or not) and judge him just about a track which he has played 2 months ago in ASOT and think it's old now...

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Originally posted by sandstorm03 7 hours of exactly the same style.....great job armin...

ROFL... i'm just wondering in what world you live in???

If I could call one set diverse, than it would the Ocean Diva one. I was there and it was an amazing set full of progressive, uplifting and techy oriented trance. And besides this some tunez were very fresh, some were 0,5-1,5 years old but still great and some classics like Carte Blanche and Cloud Walking... What do you want more???

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Originally posted by trancestar_uk totally, anyone who thinks armin is a better dj that pvd has no clue whatsoever.

TOR has already given the answer about Armin...

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Originally posted by TOR IMO his track selection, his transitions (harmonically impeccable), his interaction with the crowd.. in short: the energy he releases on to the dancefloor i don't think he's better or anything, that's not important. music is not about "better" and "worse". he's just my favourite of the bunch

It's a combination of factors which makes him so good. Any idiot dj could play some tunez, but that's far from enough! And I dunno why, but I've never liked PvD, but I'm not going to flame him...

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Originally posted by YaleTrance I thought it was rather crap too because of the vocals, until I heard it live at the club (spun by Armin ironically) and noticed how effective it was on the dancefloor. Even prog elitists like Fr0st in this forum said the track was great. Why? Because it is a dancefloor stormer, unlike most of the stuff Armin produces.

That's why people who've never heard Love Comes Again in a club should be quite here...You can't judge a tune only if you hear it once as mp3...

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Originally posted by moogwai That's why people who've never heard Love Comes Again in a club should be quite here...You can't judge a tune only if you hear it once as mp3...

Why not?

Re: Armin van Buuren's downfall

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper I figured a bash Armin-thread was in order, just to even out the score. Since PvD and Tiesto have had their share for a while, the next one should be Armin, target of TA worship en masse as he is. Personally I find it sad to see that Armin has ditched his experimentalism and knack for mixing genres, just cos all the muppets in #armind start bawling their eyes out the minute Armin plays something that isn't their usual boring piece of ASOT drivel like Burned With Desire. Thus, we go from edgy and punchy sets like these.. (Yes I'm bored at work )

Progressive is boring?
You dumbass kidd, you still don't get it, do you
Trance is over, it's for mainstream people nowadays, forget about it
Progressive is more alive than ever.

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's downfall

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Originally posted by TranceSeeker Progressive is boring? You dumbass kidd, you still don't get it, do you Trance is over, it's for mainstream people nowadays, forget about it Progressive is more alive than ever.

You're lucky I'm not in a bad mood, otherwise I'd rip you apart for making personal attacks on my taste (of which you obviously have no clue whatsoever) and not having a longer attention span than 5 seconds, which is what you would have needed to scroll further down the page and read this:

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Not all prog is boring, just the majority of the prog that Armin plays Plus he played a lot better prog tunes earlier. Remy & Roland Klinkenberg - Till Ya Drop (Electronic Elements) and Sander van Doorn - Punk'd (Spinnin) are pretty damn good though.

Now please grow the fuck up and come back when you've learned to make a proper arguement.

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast Why not?

Cause not all tunez are only ment for home-use

Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's downfall

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Originally posted by TranceSeeker Progressive is boring? You dumbass kidd, you still don't get it, do you Trance is over, it's for mainstream people nowadays, forget about it Progressive is more alive than ever.

As a proghead, you should know that most of the "prog" that Armin plays is watered-down crap made for the masses as much, or even more so, than the mainstream trance you're talking about. The quintessential McProg example: Satellite.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance It can be explained by your taste and appreciation values. As simple as that.

yes, but what is 'taste'?

can you explain where your taste comes from?

nay!!

Re: Re: Re: Armin van Buuren's downfall

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Originally posted by YaleTrance The quintessential McProg example: Satellite.

indeed... and not only does he play this piece of crap... but he plays the watered-down, hands in the air, euphoric above and beyond mix of it...

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Originally posted by TOR yes, but what is 'taste'? can you explain where your taste comes from?

Yes, I can certainly explain where my taste and your taste comes from: cultural values, education, genetics, social background and meaningful experiences of access and exposure etc.

hmm I just started listening to ASOT and I really like it. So I see myself as a future fan of AVB.

i remember ages ago (about 2.5 yrs) listening to his set at the Zoom in Israel. It was immense, he played some stunning stuff back then. Now i belive he is also in decline, his productions are stale and his sets dont have that unf! anymore.

alas 1999.


later,

PSi

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance Yes, I can certainly explain where my taste and your taste comes from: cultural values, education, genetics, social background and meaningful experiences of access and exposure etc.

that's my point, there's so many things involved that there's no point in arguing if a track is good or bad.

all those aspects are different for each individual on this planet and contribute to the feeling a certain individual experiences when listening to a certain track. i repeat: it's a feeling, not an opinion he has formed about it after weighing up the pros and the contras.

all those aspects contribute subconsciously to somebody's taste. Satellite can mean the world to somebody, while somebody else thinks of it as being cheesy.

that's why it's impossible to debate about whether a track is good or bad, as you can't really explain why exactely you like a certain track.

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Originally posted by Radagast Why not?

Because you don't taste the atmosphere when you're sitting in front of your pc, that's why. I hate it when people judge dj's when they are just listening to sets they downloaded somewhere, but they never heard them in a real club.

The amazing thing about Armin is his interaction with the public, he always has a good time, he's always enjoying himself and he passes that feeling to the crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by TOR that's my point, there's so many things involved that there's no point in arguing if a track is good or bad. all those aspects are different for each individual on this planet and contribute to the feeling a certain individual experiences when listening to a certain track. i repeat: it's a feeling, not an opinion he has formed about it after weighing up the pros and the contras. all those aspects contribute subconsciously to somebody's taste. Satellite can mean the world to somebody, while somebody else thinks of it as being cheesy. that's why it's impossible to debate about whether a track is good or bad, as you can't really explain why exactely you like a certain track.

But taste is arguable and worth debating. If I have an opinion about something according to my own personal values, why is it wrong to express it?

i think it's impossible to have an opinion about a track, because the way you feel about it depends on your taste, which is formed subconsciously by all those internal and external influences.

and that's something extremely complexe, you can't really put your finger on why you like a certain track. you can definitely express the feelings you experience while listening to a track, but because of the complexity of someone's taste, i don't think it's possible to give an explanation for enjoying a certain track, and thus there's no point in having a debate on that track.

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Originally posted by TOR i think it's impossible to have an opinion about a track, because the way you feel about it depends on your taste, which is formed subconsciously by all those internal and external influences.

Man, in a free country, you can have an opinion about absolutely anything. An opinion is simply a personal appreciation, so saying "this track rules" or "this track sucks" is an opinion even if it's a half-assed attempt of expressing one's thoughts.

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and that's something extremely complexe, you can't really put your finger on why you like a certain track.

Yes, I can put my finger on WHY I like or not like a certain track. Feelings and appreciation values can be rationalized.

For example, I hate Burned with Desire because the singer cannot sing in tune (a fact), the lyrics are superficial and the production is in the cookie-cutter generic style that has been exploited to death for the last 5 years.

^That's an opinion, whether you like it or not. It's personal and subjective, so it qualifies as an opinion.

quote:

you can definitely express the feelings you experience while listening to a track, but because of the complexity of someone's taste, i don't think it's possible to give an explanation for enjoying a certain track, and thus there's no point in having a debate on that track.

I just gave you an explanation about why I don't like a certain track, making your argument moot. Maybe there's no point in having a debate because you won't change someone else's opinion, but in this world of bandwagons and trends you definitely CAN influence someone else's opinion. But the main point of debating appreciation values (opinions) is simply having an intelligent discussion, that's it.

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance Man, in a free country, you can have an opinion about absolutely anything. An opinion is simply a personal appreciation, so saying "this track rules" or "this track sucks" is an opinion even if it's a half-assed attempt of expressing one's thoughts.

that's an appreciation or a feeling, not an opinion. an opinion is based on a logical thinking process, ratio. that's different than emotion. liking a track is usually based on a feeling, which comes spontaneously. although it is possible to appreciate the technical aspects of a piece of music. but enjoying a track is usually the result of experiencing emotions.

quote:

Yes, I can put my finger on WHY I like or not like a certain track. Feelings and appreciation values can be rationalized. For example, I hate Burned with Desire because the singer cannot sing in tune (a fact), the lyrics are superficial and the production is in the cookie-cutter generic style that has been exploited to death for the last 5 years. ^That's an opinion, whether you like it or not. It's personal and subjective, so it qualifies as an opinion.

those are technical aspects of a track, which also contribute to liking a track. i agree with you there. but from my own experience, i can tell that those technical aspects do not play the biggest role in the aprreciation process. i adore the G&D Remix of No One On Earth for example. when analysing the track objectively, i can see that the lyrics mean nothing, that the track is actually a very simple production, etc. but there's something about the harmonies, as a result of which i completely forget about the technical flaws. that's why i think liking a track is mainly caused by chords progression. and that's where my theory comes in. it's impossible to explain why a certain melody sends the shivers down my spine, whilst somebody else doesn't feel anything at all.

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I just gave you an explanation about why I don't like a certain track, making your argument moot. Maybe there's no point in having a debate because you won't change someone else's opinion, but in this world of bandwagons and trends you definitely CAN influence someone else's opinion. But the main point of debating appreciation values (opinions) is simply having an intelligent discussion, that's it.

i noticed the bandwagon 'problem'. however i think it's all in the mind. being influenced by other people makes some people blind to their true feelings, or makes them refuse to acknowledge them. like saying Justin Timberlake sucks because all your friends say that, while you actually like (even moderately) a track of his. you can influence the way somebody thinks about something, but not their true feelings.

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Originally posted by TOR that's an appreciation or a feeling, not an opinion. an opinion is based on a logical thinking process, ratio. that's different than emotion. liking a track is usually based on a feeling, which comes spontaneously. although it is possible to appreciate the technical aspects of a piece of music. but enjoying a track is usually the result of experiencing emotions.

No, it is an opinion. Any belief based on your own appreciation, feeling or whatever can be defined as an opinion. Check a dictionary:

Opinion:A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

quote:

those are technical aspects of a track, which also contribute to liking a track. i agree with you there. but from my own experience, i can tell that those technical aspects do not play the biggest role in the aprreciation process. i adore the G&D Remix of No One On Earth for example. when analysing the track objectively, i can see that the lyrics mean nothing, that the track is actually a very simple production, etc. but there's something about the harmonies, as a result of which i completely forget about the technical flaws. that's why i think liking a track is mainly caused by chords progression. and that's where my theory comes in. it's impossible to explain why a certain melody sends the shivers down my spine, whilst somebody else doesn't feel anything at all.

I like that remix too, but only the dub vocal-less remix that PvD spins.

quote:

i noticed the bandwagon 'problem'. however i think it's all in the mind. being influenced by other people makes some people blind to their true feelings, or makes them refuse to acknowledge them. like saying Justin Timberlake sucks because all your friends say that, while you actually like (even moderately) a track of his. you can influence the way somebody thinks about something, but not their true feelings.

Education is also a principal factor of how taste is molded. Feelings are subjective and not static.

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