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-- Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away!
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yeah well...the day before, this article states quite the opposite:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...d=1085998564760

owners have reported few problems enforcing the ban, which was introduced March 29 in a country where around 30 per cent of adults smoke.

The Office of Tobacco Control report said that the number of non-smokers visiting pubs and bars has increased slightly since the introduction of the new law, while the number of smokers visiting has remained the same.

I doubt people are staying for less time and therefore possibly spending less just because they can't smoke...so this article suggests business should be the same, if not greater, no?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ive highlighted the sections that prove my case... I rest my case.....

You do know the Sun isn't technically a newspaper... I think it was last year, or a couple years ago that they could no longer be technically considered a "newspaper" like, The Toronto Star, The Globe and Mail, The National Post... (Mind you the star is pushing it these days) If you compare them to the Sun it's a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by PartyHarlequin You do know the Sun isn't technically a newspaper... I think it was last year, or a couple years ago that they could no longer be technically considered a "newspaper" like, The Toronto Star, The Globe and Mail, The National Post... (Mind you the star is pushing it these days) If you compare them to the Sun it's a joke.

ahhhhahahahaha.

that is what i was thinking. obviously you got this shit from the Sun. now it all makes sense. only the readers of the Sun would give a crap about semantics of how you can get charged. what does the Inquirer say about this?

LOL

its funny how the only way you can critisize what i have put now is attacking the newspaper. Very weak rebuttle id say. Semantics? the law is ALL ABOUT SEMANTICS! Thats where technicalities and loopholes like this come from.

And the article about Ireland was the Associated Press which appeared in the Sun. AP is a well recognized global news service.

As for the star article, how does the health dept know that business is up? At least the Associated Press went and spoke to the business owners themselves. After all, they would know best wouldnt they?

.

Normally newspaper journalists are supposed to research hard facts, like for example; the public disclosures that all public companies must produce. Along with a number of other tax surveys etc... These are all handled by the gov't and available for review. That is where the numbers are supposed to come from, in a live interview a small business owner can say whatever they want without an objective comparison to other businesses and companies. Furthermore, no one uses the term rebuttle in conversation unless they are specifically talking about something in a structured debate, it's just freakish and excessive. And what is wrong with attacking the credibility of your resources to disprove your point? It is a very common and viable tactic used in court.

One must disrupt the rhythm of the opponent.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 its funny how the only way you can critisize what i have put now is attacking the newspaper. Very weak rebuttle id say. Semantics? the law is ALL ABOUT SEMANTICS! Thats where technicalities and loopholes like this come from. And the article about Ireland was the Associated Press which appeared in the Sun. AP is a well recognized global news service. As for the star article, how does the health dept know that business is up? At least the Associated Press went and spoke to the business owners themselves. After all, they would know best wouldnt they? .

...and business owners not in favour of the ban are going to be 100% honest and up front with AP reporters? suuuuuure they are

my point is that there's conflicting "evidence", so neither article can be taken as gospel. The office of Tobacco Control has it's agenda, so do pub owners.

So what you gonna do....GO TO A HUGE PATIO!

I am a non-smoker,but I must admit as a bartender and a promoter...this could hurt clubs as the club owners are going to get hit!

Just go to a huge Patio (like the DOCKS), or just wait until you get the chance to go outside! Everyone has to supply designated smoking areas..or risk the chance of getting ticketed!

For our sake and yours...please DON'T light up in the clubs...we are going to be hit first!

Peace

Styles

Amen!

Who wants to guess who he promotes for???? Anyone????

the onus is on the clubs... the patron cant get fined...

period...


As for asking the businesses. If this had no effect or a positive effect on business then business owners wouldnt be against it would they?

so how are we supposed to blaze the chronic during tiesto? has guvernment been enforcing the ban -- i wonder what theyll do come to big djs or even when a rock band comes through -- EVERYONE SMOKES

correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, the police are ABLE to enfore bylaws (parking on the street illegally is a bylaw infraction, is it not?), but in this case they simply are not mandated to do so...

sure business owners are against it regardless of whether or not it's impacting business:

1. It's reasonably safe to say business isn't going to boom as a result of the ban, so why would a business owner support something they *may* hurt business?

2. Many businesses don't have patios, smoking rooms, etc. and don't want to have to modify their space to accomodate the new regulations.

3. Many bars/clubs sell cigarettes. If people smoke less while they're at bars/clubs, less cigarettes will be sold too.

Those three points alone would be reason enough for most business owners to prefer the status quo.

quote:

Originally posted by Superstar heh.. alright there "grow up", talk away!

Hahaha, thats so good! your a funny guy, I have a tear coming from my eye because of your post...

Well, I guess I cant match the intelligence of a 17 year old clubber (as everyone knows is wise and thoughtful). You see, when Superfag adds an arguement that bouncers could possibly take away cigarette packs because they did so to a shitload of moron "MINORS", who werent suppose to be smoking to begin with, at shitty all ages clubs that nobody ever cares about (unless your into girls with training bra's and Diesel wearing homos with spikey hair and braces in their teeth), it kinda makes me wonder the brain capacity this kid is equivilant to, hmm maybe a fuckin shoelace? Why dont you do me a favor and stop using that dippidy-do Gel because I think its seeping slowly into your brain you loser gino. So before posting back to me, do a little thing called thinking, and maybe you might get people to take you a tad bit more seriously, including me.

quote:

Originally posted by abort416 so how are we supposed to blaze the chronic during tiesto? has guvernment been enforcing the ban -- i wonder what theyll do come to big djs or even when a rock band comes through -- EVERYONE SMOKES

Smoke with some of the bouncers, they are well known for doing that in the hidden hallways of the Guv alot. As for rock bands, unless your seeing some pansies on stage, most hard rocking bands and their fans prolly wont give to shits if you stick to the doorways or away from the main crowd. I wouldn't try it at Tiesto though.

You know what Jayx1.....this is what it will all come down too. Once you light a smoke up, people are either going to tell on you right then and there, drinks will be thrown at you, people will tell you to fuck off, bouncers are going to harrass you and all this will, in the end, cause you to look like a big loser who thinks he can get away with these loop holes.

Just try lighting up, im sure trouble will come your way. You will never get your way now. Even if you have these things to prove your point, you think a bouncer is going to listen to your rambling?

Youre only getting yourself into shit by doing it.

get real

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, the police are ABLE to enfore bylaws (parking on the street illegally is a bylaw infraction, is it not?), but in this case they simply are not mandated to do so...

You are wrong. The police are not able to enforce bylaws as it does not fall under their juridiction. The Toronto police takes care of bylaws when it comes to parking and traffic because they have set up a special division to handle bylaw services. If you notice they have special cars, special uniforms and dont carry guns. They are not cops. They are bylaw enforcement officers run by the Toronto Police. They are 2 completely different entities under the law. A bylaw officer is not much of a step above a civilian in the eyes of the law.

As for the other persons point about drinks being thrown etc etc. Im sure security wont stand for that kind of unruley behaviour so if anyone feels the need to start trouble with a cig smoker their ass will get dealt with. As for smoking itself. Thats up to the club, if they decide to enforce it they will instruct security to ask you to put it out. If they dont you can smoke away knowing you wont be charged unless you are dumb enough to provide ID.

Hallow threats and attitude from others wont stop me. Im know to start dancing at snobby martini bars if im drunk enough and the music is good and trust me, youll get plenty of hairy eyeballs and attitude if you show any signs of having fun in Yorkville!

quote:

Originally posted by PartyHarlequin Who wants to guess who he promotes for???? Anyone????

Almost post*

ya but all i really want to know is after all you ppl who go to guv for tiesto make sure you let us know what they did in regard to smoking the ganja during tiestos set -- mainly cuz i want to know what the deal will be for pvd on the 24th
if they dont let us smoke weed theyr just encouraging the use of other drugs! (ecstasy doesnt cause any smoke, neither do shrooms, lsd, cocaine, heroin, etc) so really the smoking ban would be like a gateway drug -- its gonna force ppl to do harder longer lasting drugs at a club

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 You are wrong. The police are not able to enforce bylaws as it does not fall under their juridiction. The Toronto police takes care of bylaws when it comes to parking and TRAFFIC because they have set up a special division to handle bylaw services. If you notice they have special cars, special uniforms and dont carry guns. They are not cops. They are bylaw enforcement officers run by the Toronto Police. They are 2 completely different entities under the law. A bylaw officer is not much of a step above a civilian in the eyes of the law.

You do realize that traffic is fully under police jurisdiction and the highway traffic act contains real laws with indictable offenses? Can you please just shut up already and stop spouting your constantly incorrect and uninformed dribble. No one wants to hear any of your bloody opinions, haven't you figured that out yet? Notice that no one who has replied to any of your posts has agreed with you?

Please go find somewhere else to blabber, preferably somewhere where they might appreciate a font of uselesness like yourself.

I hear there's a village missing it's idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You know what Jayx1.....this is what it will all come down too. Once you light a smoke up, people are either going to tell on you right then and there, drinks will be thrown at you, people will tell you to fuck off, bouncers are going to harrass you and all this will, in the end, cause you to look like a big loser who thinks he can get away with these loop holes. Just try lighting up, im sure trouble will come your way. You will never get your way now. Even if you have these things to prove your point, you think a bouncer is going to listen to your rambling? Youre only getting yourself into shit by doing it. get real

well said

quote:

Originally posted by Rodrico Hahaha, thats so good! your a funny guy, I have a tear coming from my eye because of your post... Well, I guess I cant match the intelligence of a 17 year old clubber (as everyone knows is wise and thoughtful). You see, when Superfag adds an arguement that bouncers could possibly take away cigarette packs because they did so to a shitload of moron "MINORS", who werent suppose to be smoking to begin with, at shitty all ages clubs that nobody ever cares about (unless your into girls with training bra's and Diesel wearing homos with spikey hair and braces in their teeth), it kinda makes me wonder the brain capacity this kid is equivilant to, hmm maybe a fuckin shoelace? Why dont you do me a favor and stop using that dippidy-do Gel because I think its seeping slowly into your brain you loser gino. So before posting back to me, do a little thing called thinking, and maybe you might get people to take you a tad bit more seriously, including me.

Oh ok... so just because they "werent suppose" to be smoking means they can have their cigarettes confiscated? Really? "your" so smart!!!111

So why can 14 year olds smoke on the sidewalks of their schools and no one does anything about it? Where is the law that says minors cannot posess or smoke cigarettes? Oh shit, there isn't one... Damn, guess there goes your brilliant theory.

Hey guess what has a lower brain capacity than shoelace?

Hint: it starts with "R" and ends with "odrico"

who the fuck is this rodrico loser coming on and making fun of us youngsters

fuck you buddy

This forum has reached a new low...

quote:

Originally posted by abort416 its gonna force ppl to do harder longer lasting drugs at a club

I really like your choice of words

quote:

Originally posted by Superstar Oh ok... so just because they "werent suppose" to be smoking means they can have their cigarettes confiscated? Really? "your" so smart!!!111 So why can 14 year olds smoke on the sidewalks of their schools and no one does anything about it? Where is the law that says minors cannot posess or smoke cigarettes? Oh shit, there isn't one... Damn, guess there goes your brilliant theory.

dont know if its canadian law, or provincial law, but the police can take the cigarettes away from minors in Alberta, actually they can take them away from anybody who fails to produce ID saying you are 18+. Same way, if minors get caught with booze, they pour it out in front of you.

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