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-- Lowlife MP3 illegal downloaders!!!!
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quote:

Originally posted by BigTongue that is exactly right no? you test drive a car, and if you like it you buy it? i don't see ford bitching & complaining...

maybe that is because its not somthing that you can just copy and give to a friend.. you have to physically go out and buy a ford to have one you cant just download one off the internet..

and i think we can all agree that p2p is evil

what i think is funny is that so many release groups think that they are leet because they rip it first. but really...wouldn't you just be a selfish bastard and feel more leet by being the only one to have it? that's what i would do hehehe

quote:

Originally posted by basd Please stop spreading this kind of 'facts' about europe when you clearly don't know anything about it.. Have you ever even been here? Big festivals and raves sold out over here, and clubs were packed long before that MP3 shit came up. Radio shows, exchanging mix tapes and good old 'spreading the word around' did the job back then over here, why wouldn't it continue to do so nowadays?

Well I'm sure that was the case in Europe... and I'll hesitate to speak for Asia and other parts of the world, but I can tell you my personal experience.

I live in Bumfuck. There is a farm with cows 100 yards from my house. There's not a vinyl shop for 100s of miles. EDM gets absolutely zero exposure here. I heard sandstorm once on the radio a few years ago, as well as DJ Sammy once or twice. That's it.

I first heard electronica when a friend loaned me a burned CD with some big Quake patches on it (I was on dialup at the time - he had cable). This CD also had some mp3s on it from artists I've never heard of. So I grabbed them, and the rest is history. I started downloading every track I could get my little hands on. Then I started mixing them in MixMeister and Traktor, and giving the mixes to friends. That was five years ago - I was 13. Does the industry really expect a 13 year old middle class kid to be buying records at 10 bucks a pop? Where do they expect me to find them, let alone get the money for them?

The record labels may have "taken a hit" from me back then, but now that I have a steady income, I'm spending hundreds a month on records. They wouldn't be getting any money from me today if I hadn't been downloading my heart out back then.

quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer Well I'm sure that was the case in Europe... and I'll hesitate to speak for Asia and other parts of the world, but I can tell you my personal experience. I live in Bumfuck. There is a farm with cows 100 yards from my house. There's not a vinyl shop for 100s of miles. EDM gets absolutely zero exposure here. I heard sandstorm once on the radio a few years ago, as well as DJ Sammy once or twice. That's it. I first heard electronica when a friend loaned me a burned CD with some big Quake patches on it (I was on dialup at the time - he had cable). This CD also had some mp3s on it from artists I've never heard of. So I grabbed them, and the rest is history. I started downloading every track I could get my little hands on. Then I started mixing them in MixMeister and Traktor, and giving the mixes to friends. That was five years ago - I was 13. Does the industry really expect a 13 year old middle class kid to be buying records at 10 bucks a pop? Where do they expect me to find them, let alone get the money for them? The record labels may have "taken a hit" from me back then, but now that I have a steady income, I'm spending hundreds a month on records. They wouldn't be getting any money from me today if I hadn't been downloading my heart out back then.

Our scene and this very site reached its size and popularity due to mp3's..i fail to see otherwise..nuff said

Artists making money

in the end this isn't about whether or not CD DJs are legit, or whether MP3s and P2P are evil. ultimately this is about getting the artists the money they deserve for the art they are sharing with us.

artists make their money DJing, at festivals, and concerts, and even on radio shows (ASOT, GDJB, TAW). but they should also be making money off the singles and albums they're releasing, right? well they do, on the album bit at least. compilation albums and artist albums do fairly well when compared to singles.

so artists are losing money in the singles department. who cares? they can make enough money DJing and on albums, singles should be, and usually are, for PROMO purposes.

so if artists get ripped off on the singles they release it shouldn't be crippling them too much, they have other venues where they can make money.

i say that singles are for promo and DJing/producing CDs is for bringing about profits. for example, i love G&D. i'll purchase Bloom when it comes out. On the other hand i've already downloaded the Original, Extended, and Edit versions of their latest mix and will never buy that single.

the author of this thread is bitching about 1 single? you wanna make money pal? get your artists out there DJing and they'll make tons of cash.

READIN THIS TOPIC I CANT HELP BUT LAUGH

I wonder how many of the people here mouthing off about downloading have bit torrent on their PC ?

How many have downloaded movies, DVDr's, Games, Software ??

How many producers that have downloaded reason, cubase ?

Point proven

Re: Artists making money

quote:

Originally posted by KidConscious in the end this isn't about whether or not CD DJs are legit, or whether MP3s and P2P are evil. ultimately this is about getting the artists the money they deserve for the art they are sharing with us. artists make their money DJing, at festivals, and concerts, and even on radio shows (ASOT, GDJB, TAW). but they should also be making money off the singles and albums they're releasing, right? well they do, on the album bit at least. compilation albums and artist albums do fairly well when compared to singles. so artists are losing money in the singles department. who cares? they can make enough money DJing and on albums, singles should be, and usually are, for PROMO purposes. so if artists get ripped off on the singles they release it shouldn't be crippling them too much, they have other venues where they can make money. i say that singles are for promo and DJing/producing CDs is for bringing about profits. for example, i love G&D. i'll purchase Bloom when it comes out. On the other hand i've already downloaded the Original, Extended, and Edit versions of their latest mix and will never buy that single. the author of this thread is bitching about 1 single? you wanna make money pal? get your artists out there DJing and they'll make tons of cash.

if a track is a good track..it will make money no matter how much it is downloaded..the ones who dont make money r the producers of crappy tracks because mp3's will expose it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Lowlife MP3 illegal downloaders!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Tranceguy1 So what your saying is...you wanted a free listen before spending your cash, meaning if you hadn't liked either CD, you wouldn't have gone out and bought them? Back in the day there were no "free listens" you had to buy the album THEN decide if it was trash. So I'm sorry but thats still part of the problem, not the solution.

I disagree, you had listening posts in stores, TV programs that aired the music and how can we forget the radio ? Either case, you could listen to the tunes before you bought you would decide whether you wanted to buy it or not. Not only that, back then you were forced to listen to the playlists set by Radio, TV etc but now you have the option to choose what you want to listen to first beoftre you purchase it.

You could also look at the history of vinyl stores that allowed buyers to play vinyl on their decks before they bought the tracks.

It was always a free listen.

ok .. i have read everything here.. just a few things to say ..

I was a metal head when i was younger. i spent everything i had on tapes (B4 cds). However, if i did not have money, i recorded the tape from someone else. I was doing the same thing but with tapes. Till this day, i still have loads of taped tapes. If i really like them i bought them for collector purposes. This has been going on forever. Nobody freaked out then. I know know it is more of a problem b/c it does not have to be the friend at school who had the tape. It just needs to be one person anywhere in the world.

Now i still spend loads of money, but i just cannot spend the money for everything i want. In all the genres especially. This stems from my love of music. CDs are overpriced too. The cost the companies a dollar or so then they jack up the price. They are in danger. The small companies will do well and they will find a way. It just happens. The law of nature. Things come and go. Look at HOOJ, i am sure it wasn't mp3s that made them go under. A few poor releases can distroy a company more so.

I got off topic. Sharing has been around for years. since tapes. people will still buy. Just today things are becoming overpriced.

I don't know. I am getting confused because i see both sides. One thing is for sure, i really thing it is only the big companies that are hurting and not the little ones. Look at Release Recoreds, in two years they went from being a small little store in TO to a major player. They just keep selling more, and more copies of their releases.

As for the people who thing preview with a downoad is wrong, fuck taht ... it is better than standing in a record shop for hours listening (it gets tiring) but for those that can they do. So preview all you want.

lastly , good tracks will always sell, the others won't...period.

hope this makes sense. i am really tired... but i just had to type something here...

m..

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lowlife MP3 illegal downloaders!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dancecritic I disagree, you had listening posts in stores, TV programs that aired the music and how can we forget the radio ? Either case, you could listen to the tunes before you bought you would decide whether you wanted to buy it or not. Not only that, back then you were forced to listen to the playlists set by Radio, TV etc but now you have the option to choose what you want to listen to first beoftre you purchase it. You could also look at the history of vinyl stores that allowed buyers to play vinyl on their decks before they bought the tracks. It was always a free listen.

There's not always a free listen. Maybe for you, in London, which was pretty much ground zero when this whole rave thing started. You've got Radio 1, and probably no shortage of vinyl shops.

It's ignorant to assume that everyone has some legal means to preview a track before they buy it. There hasn't been a CD store with a listening post around here for at least 10 years. Not to mention their selection consists of 95% dime-a-dozen protools compiliations and recycled Ibiza anthem CDs.

EDM got zero radio and TV exposure. There wasn't a vinyl shop anywhere close - I didn't even own a turntable.

I've bought a couple of tunes on TRR its had a great start as a label, really bad to see you losing business in this way and I hope you guys find a way round.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic Our scene and this very site reached its size and popularity due to mp3's..i fail to see otherwise..nuff said

Thats breeze.

Please account for why in the UK and other European countries trance and the EDM scene in general is on the decline despite PC ownership and internet access rocketing at the same time.

Large events aren't proof or indicative of a prosperous scene over here, they're put on more frequently because the weekly nights that used to thrive can't afford to stay open any more.

And in terms of superstar trance DJ's recogniton I'd say Oakey had a bigger commercial status in the days before mp3 got big than Tiesto has today.

quote:

Originally posted by TJM I've bought a couple of tunes on TRR its had a great start as a label, really bad to see you losing business in this way and I hope you guys find a way round. Thats breeze. Please account for why in the UK and other European countries trance and the EDM scene in general is on the decline despite PC ownership and internet access rocketing at the same time. Large events aren't proof or indicative of a prosperous scene over here, they're put on more frequently because the weekly nights that used to thrive can't afford to stay open any more. And in terms of superstar trance DJ's recogniton I'd say Oakey had a bigger commercial status in the days before mp3 got big than Tiesto has today.

well i cant answer that because i dont live in the UK..how bout you account for why the scene in the US and canada became huge? yup u guessed it mp3s..u cant deny that the scene as a whole is alot bigger.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=35271

this topic should silence the industry is going down discussion .

and remember TA is a small ammmount of people, but this a good example.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lowlife MP3 illegal downloaders!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dancecritic I disagree, you had listening posts in stores, TV programs that aired the music and how can we forget the radio ? Either case, you could listen to the tunes before you bought you would decide whether you wanted to buy it or not. Not only that, back then you were forced to listen to the playlists set by Radio, TV etc but now you have the option to choose what you want to listen to first beoftre you purchase it. You could also look at the history of vinyl stores that allowed buyers to play vinyl on their decks before they bought the tracks. It was always a free listen.

I agree with the point of radio, and recording a radio show, but listening posts in record shops and downloading mp3's off of a filesharing network (actually obtaining the mp3) are 2 different things.

Re: Artists making money

quote:

Originally posted by KidConscious in the end this isn't about whether or not CD DJs are legit, or whether MP3s and P2P are evil. ultimately this is about getting the artists the money they deserve for the art they are sharing with us. artists make their money DJing, at festivals, and concerts, and even on radio shows (ASOT, GDJB, TAW). but they should also be making money off the singles and albums they're releasing, right? well they do, on the album bit at least. compilation albums and artist albums do fairly well when compared to singles. so artists are losing money in the singles department. who cares? they can make enough money DJing and on albums, singles should be, and usually are, for PROMO purposes. so if artists get ripped off on the singles they release it shouldn't be crippling them too much, they have other venues where they can make money. i say that singles are for promo and DJing/producing CDs is for bringing about profits. for example, i love G&D. i'll purchase Bloom when it comes out. On the other hand i've already downloaded the Original, Extended, and Edit versions of their latest mix and will never buy that single. the author of this thread is bitching about 1 single? you wanna make money pal? get your artists out there DJing and they'll make tons of cash.

i have to add a few cents to this. Armin doesn't earn anything by playing on ASOT . he has devoted 2 hours of his life every Thursday for free. ID&T doesn't pay him anything, and doesn't even reimburse him for the gas he uses to drive from his place to the studio. It does however, give him alot of exposure though.

but you are right...artists make grips of money on concerts, provided it's priced high enough and enough tickets sell.

Re: Re: Re: Lowlife MP3 illegal downloaders!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by bruddahmanmatt Your experience is nice and all, but it is also total crap. The reason I downloaded them first, I wanted to sample some of the remixes from the UK Edition of IMM and RoW to see if the 2nd Disc on each warranted the extra cash I was spending.

What an ignorant comment. How is my experience crap? Its my experience not yours. So STFU and only comment on something relevant. I know over a dozen people who NEVER buy music. They download songs and if they can't download them they don't listen to them.

So let me get this straight, you steal the music first and then if its good enough you go out and buy it and that makes you better than the average filesharer. Why dont you go into a record store, steal a CD, then come back a week later after you listen to it and tell them you stole it but now you want to pay and see what they do.

quote:

Originally posted by xmotleyx I got off topic. Sharing has been around for years. since tapes. people will still buy. Just today things are becoming overpriced.

Man you are dead on about this.

File sharing is a consumer revolt brought on by years of excessive prices charged for CDs along with forcing you to buy an album of 15 crap-ass tracks to get the one good one you wanted.

The music industry is against file sharing because they walk around with their eyes closed refusing to admit that the rules of the game have changed and hoping they can use the courts to sue things back to the way they used to be.

Its not gonna happen so the sooner they wake up and realize that

1. People are no longer willing to pay $17 for a CD. They need to come up with some kind of reasonable price
2. People want only the good tracks, not the 10 crap filler tracks they normally put on the CD

the sooner they will be able to get their prices and distribution methods back in line with what consumers want.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the big record companies. I have over 500 CDs in my basement that I paid a mint for, most times to get one or two good tracks off of it. Its unfortunate that smaller labels are going to suffer from this because its mainly the big labels that have cheated us for years.

Trance is a fickle type of music it's very often a case of newest is best!

Record labels need to get releases out faster not wait 4 months (ie into September to release the 'Big' Ibiza tune everyone hears in June) and to learn, as they seem to be starting to realise, there is a market for CHEAP LEAGAL downloadable music. Average Vinyl with 1 or 2 mixes cost what �4-7?? Used to be that when I bought loads a few years back in my student days!!

Accept that many songs dont get much airplay (ie most dance / trance releases never make it to major radio airplay) so the only way some people can ever hear it is if they download!!

Certainly also in my years of using MP3s and livesets I find many sharers are from background / countires that they simply couldnt afford it in the first place!!



A person cannot afford to buy every track they want to hear.

Not every track you hear is availables when a person wants to buy.


Catch 22

Andy I can sympathise with you wholeheartedly on this one - the MPFS guys had this exact same issue and that was from SIX cd-rs sent out to the big names (and I can name the guys it was sent to and we're talking serious top djs).

The sad thing is many of the big names have pickers who sort thru the vinyls/cdrs cos the djs get sent so many and it's very easy for these people to then hand them over to the release groups.

I do agree though that the little wankers who download them and use them to DJ out should be shot. I've had words with more than one up and coming DJ playing at events with me who've been obviously playing downloaded mp3s. One asked 'but I can't afford to buy many tunes - how else am I going to play all the new tracks?'

Unfortunately that's an all too common misconception from people so used to having all their music for free - there's already next to no money in running a label.

I know you guys are just dying to hear what i have to say


in my opinion, mp3 filesharing is inevitable. ESPECIALLY if someone gives out a "most wanted" single on vinyl before release. If you are giving a promo out, YOU are responsible for the consequences (ie: getting it ripped and shared all over the internet).

I am just one of probably 5000+ people who have a copy of "Whirlpool vs Octagen - Alaska". and this is BECAUSE of a select group of people (they know who they are) who have ripped this promo vinyl that was given to them, and made it available all over the internet.

Personally, i HAVE received promo music from a few well known artists (i will not mention who they are for privacy reasons). If one of them sends me an exclusive track that isnt to be made public, I WILL keep my word on that. If i get a track from somewhere else that i know any other person has access to, i treat it the same way as i found it (ie if its easily accessable to me, than its gonna be easily accessable to anyone else searching for it). If someone wants me to NOT share a tune then fine i wont. But, if its easily accessable to anyone else who wants it, then me removing it from my share WILL NOT effect the amount of times it gets downloaded by anyone else...this IS the age of mp3s (blah blah blah) and all in all its the same story over and over.

the moral pretty much is if you dont want a track to become readily available to everyone on the internet, then be aware of where the promos are going before release or just dont give any out at all...better safe than sorry!

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Celica Personally, i HAVE received promo music from a few well known artists (i will not mention who they are for privacy reasons). If one of them sends me an exclusive track that isnt to be made public, I WILL keep my word on that.

So its one set of rules for the producers you know and another set for the unknowns. Fan-fucking-tastic

Shame you cant use that common sense approach to all producers. I would then take notice of your opinion

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Celica I know you guys are just dying to hear what i have to say in my opinion, mp3 filesharing is inevitable. ESPECIALLY if someone gives out a "most wanted" single on vinyl before release. If you are giving a promo out, YOU are responsible for the consequences (ie: getting it ripped and shared all over the internet). I am just one of probably 5000+ people who have a copy of "Whirlpool vs Octagen - Alaska". and this is BECAUSE of a select group of people (they know who they are) who have ripped this promo vinyl that was given to them, and made it available all over the internet. Personally, i HAVE received promo music from a few well known artists (i will not mention who they are for privacy reasons). If one of them sends me an exclusive track that isnt to be made public, I WILL keep my word on that. If i get a track from somewhere else that i know any other person has access to, i treat it the same way as i found it (ie if its easily accessable to me, than its gonna be easily accessable to anyone else searching for it). If someone wants me to NOT share a tune then fine i wont. But, if its easily accessable to anyone else who wants it, then me removing it from my share WILL NOT effect the amount of times it gets downloaded by anyone else...this IS the age of mp3s (blah blah blah) and all in all its the same story over and over. the moral pretty much is if you dont want a track to become readily available to everyone on the internet, then be aware of where the promos are going before release or just dont give any out at all...better safe than sorry! Aaron

Ditto... my thoughts exactly. Adaptability is the key word here, as mp3's are here to stay and there is no changing that. Producers and labels need to find some way to adapt to the changing times. This is why the RIAA is suing people. They did not embrace the internet and the new mediums thru which people get their music and look at the backlash.

I download mp3's constantly and think nothing of it. I also am a bedroom dj and have spent $3000+ on equipment and 95 records so far. I use p2p as a gateway to learn about new and different tracks. The ones I like, I will try to buy at some point. This leads me to another scenario, which is availability.

I live in the US, not England, so I don't have access to private record shops on every street corner. So, I have to buy everything online. Many online record stores are always out of stock of the tracks I'm looking for. So, how exactly am I supposed to buy some of these tracks if every store I look is out of stock? Also, another problem is that retail vinyls take too long to be released, if at all. I'm still waiting for Chris Fortier's single "Losing Wait" to be released after about 2 years. Looks like I'll have to stick with my mp3 rips of this song. CD's are another pain in my ass. Half of the compilations/artist albums I want are all imports, and are bitchin expensive, not to mention alot of these are out of stock as well. This leaves only one alternative, and that is p2p until I am able to find a record/cd available.

MP3's are not killing the scene, they are helping EDM to be heard and recognized.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Intrigue I live in the US, not England, so I don't have access to private record shops on every street corner. So, I have to buy everything online. Many online record stores are always out of stock of the tracks I'm looking for. So, how exactly am I supposed to buy some of these tracks if every store I look is out of stock? Also, another problem is that retail vinyls take too long to be released, if at all. I'm still waiting for Chris Fortier's single "Losing Wait" to be released after about 2 years. Looks like I'll have to stick with my mp3 rips of this song. CD's are another pain in my ass. Half of the compilations/artist albums I want are all imports, and are bitchin expensive, not to mention alot of these are out of stock as well. This leaves only one alternative, and that is p2p until I am able to find a record/cd available. MP3's are not killing the scene, they are helping EDM to be heard and recognized.

All i see is your blaming record stores for not having enough stock so your so called 'forced' to resort to mp3s.

If you wanted the track bad enough to order online you would get it the day it came in, as its out of stock your using that as an excuse.

This way labels can never win or prosper with individuals complaining.

If it isnt price, its time to get it out there, if it isnt that its they havent pressed enough to cope with the demand.

I'm sure all these people who harp on about p2p would have a different opinion on the matter if they owned a record label. Anyone who says they don't is talking bullshit

quote:

I live in the US, not England, so I don't have access to private record shops on every street corner. So, I have to buy everything online. Many online record stores are always out of stock of the tracks I'm looking for. So, how exactly am I supposed to buy some of these tracks if every store I look is out of stock? Also, another problem is that retail vinyls take too long to be released, if at all. I'm still waiting for Chris Fortier's single "Losing Wait" to be released after about 2 years. Looks like I'll have to stick with my mp3 rips of this song. CD's are another pain in my ass. Half of the compilations/artist albums I want are all imports, and are bitchin expensive, not to mention alot of these are out of stock as well. This leaves only one alternative, and that is p2p until I am able to find a record/cd available. MP3's are not killing the scene, they are helping EDM to be heard and recognized.

No excuse.
I get sent promos by promo companies and labels, normally a month before release- but 99% of the time I will have the test press months before that when they are hard to find.
I get the majority from online shops- with worldwide shipping being offered at reasonable rates there is no excuse.
How do i make money selling records? i know whats coming out and when. I know where to get it, and most importantly i know i have to get it fast or miss out.
example? Bangalter/falcon/eric prydz- 'call on me'. I got 25 white copies back 5 or 6 months ago when no one wanted to know about it, as i knew from playing this out and the buzz it was going to be huge. Result was, i was the only person selling them, and was able to charge a lot for them due to demand. Ive had 5 copies of the official release mix promo arrive today- like gold dust at the moment, but again, i know where and when to go.
Even using ebay you can usually turn up what you want.

Oh, mercedes have a year waiting list on their new E class AMG- but ill go steal one because i cant find one sooner legitimately. Its a fucked up analogy but its the same principle

If djing and/or music is your passion then step up your game a bit.
Christ, heaven forbid you would enjoy hunting out the hottest tunes and crate digging. I LOVE it- its half the fun turning to a mate when hes raving about a tune he cant get hold of and seeing his face when you show him the test press.

The dance scene was doing fine ( it was doing better to be honest!) before p2p arrived, so thats no excuse.

quote:

- there's already next to no money in running a label.

Then why are there so many?

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