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Sex for procreation only is just plain ridiculous. I hope no on here believes that to be true. That would mean that once you are done having children (if you can even have children) you should never have sex again for the rest of your life. If you don't plan on having children you should never have sex. Who in their right mind would follow such a belief? If they do they have either been brainwashed or they have never had sex before and they have no clue what they are going to experience once they do. I�m waiting for someone to respond with �there are things in life more important than having sex�. Well no shit.

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Originally posted by tranceaholic i agree and posted the same thing..i would take a humble person that is nice to people and helps other but had sex with a loved one then someone who brings people down and flame others and have virgin tattooed over his head...

spot on

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Originally posted by trancebrat If they do they have either been brainwashed or they have never had sex before and they have no clue what they are going to experience once they do.

Exactly.

Brainwashed.

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Originally posted by Nite-Mer All I will say is that I understand your beliefs and respect them. However, there are still debates between Christians and Evolutionists and they continue, because there aren't really winners in the debates. It is impossible for anyone to know for sure one way or the other. You may have scientific evidence that you believe, and I may believe that God is out there. My intangible beliefs are based on abrupt changes in my life, based on my levels of commitment to God. If you aren't a Christian you can't understand that feeling and the power that comes over you. I am not asking you to change your mind. You make your own choices. But even though you can't see the wind, you can feel it. I am certain based on the things I've felt. I guarantee a lot of you will think that's stupid. I don't really care. I don't judge anyone for their beliefs and I'm not trying to judge anyone for having different beliefs. I'll leave that to others.

I don't think that is stupid. It just sounds to me that deep inside you want to believe. When you really want to believe, you'll interpret the things around you and feel whatever way makes it easiest to believe. I appreciate that you respect my beliefs, and I apologize that I cannot genuinely do the same. Although I will always respect your right to believe what you wish, I can't help but hold the opinion that the choice you make is an unhealthy one.

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But there are a lot of predictions in the bible that have come true, everyone acknowledges Jesus's existence and death, so the predictions about him can't be dispelled by saying it's too long ago and he might not have existed. To me there is plenty of compelling evidence, but I don't blame you for feeling differently.

Now why did you have to go and open that can of worms on us. No, not everyone acknowledges Jesus' existence and death. I happen to be one of the few who don't. Rather than repost everything, I'll just link you to the appropriate discussion:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...us&pagenumber=5

Starting at the bottom of the page. You'll see that no one made a serious effort to address any of the problems confronting a historical Christ other than point #8. You're more than welcome to try your hand at it, if you like, but once again I think this is a matter that just comes down to faith: you either have it, or you don't.

The Bible has as many contradictions as it does accurate predictions. It may be easy to have faith in the bible, but it seems difficult to me to examine it objectively and come to the conclusion that it's a reliable historical source.

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Another interesting thing is that Mt. Helens erupted leaving behind many thousands of sedimentary layers. If a forty day forty night flood happened proportionally larger amounts of layers could be formed in places. Like the Grand Canyon per se. If some of the stories are true maybe they do explain some of the things we see, rather than just assuming it takes one year for each layer, etc. etc. Maybe the amount of knowledge we have accumulated in the small amount of time on this earth has lead us to accept theories as truths, and maybe our whole basis for some of them aren't true. In my mind, science has a lot of gaps as well.

Agreed on the gaps of science. It may surprise you, but I debate scientists about as often as I debate theists, and I'm often as highly skeptical of some scientific "knowledge" as I am of religious doctrine.

With regards to sedimentation and a long flood: if it were just sedimentary layers you'd be spot on. But in application layers have a variety of distinct characteristics which could only have formed over a longer period of time. This site does a much better job explaining it than I could:

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/ath...ark.html#COLUMN

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I studied Physical Anthropology in College and found it funny that one of the explanations for a lack in evidence of intermediary species for evolution was that some times are good for fossilization and some are not so good. What a weak explanation for a lack of data. Or pictures of a whole skeletal system of several bones (50-100) with only three that were actually found. I take that as a leap of faith.

I agree that it is problematic. While it could be true that some periods of time facilitate fossilization and others do not, it nevertheless leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Anyone who tells you that they are certain that evolution is the source of all biodiversity on Earth is definitely reaching IMO.

I think the fundamental problem here is that you obviously have very strong feelings about your beliefs but from my point of view, they are no different than the feelings which lead people to join doomsday cults or to become suicide bombers. I suppose my question is: do you at least acknowledge that there are thousands if not millions or billions of other people who feel the exact same thing for a different and mutually-exclusive religion? And, if so, that at least some of you, and probably most of you, must be wrong in spite of these feelings?

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Originally posted by Slylee now quit telling all of the Christians/believers to prove what we believe or "describe god" you idiots...it obviously cannot be done, so just respect it.

It's not a matter of respecting it, it's a matter of discussing it. If you don't want to justify or explain your beliefs, then why bring them into the discussion? If you can't prove your beliefs or support them with material evidence, then why do you hold those beliefs? If it's faith, then why do you have faith? If you don't want to discuss your beliefs, then you should leave them out of a discussion.

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Originally posted by trancebrat Sex for procreation only is just plain ridiculous. I hope no on here believes that to be true. That would mean that once you are done having children (if you can even have children) you should never have sex again for the rest of your life. If you don't plan on having children you should never have sex. Who in their right mind would follow such a belief? If they do they have either been brainwashed or they have never had sex before and they have no clue what they are going to experience once they do. I�m waiting for someone to respond with �there are things in life more important than having sex�. Well no shit.

I'm sick of being flamed and sure I will induce more now. However, I want to clarify that the bible does not say that sex is merely for procreation. It is for pleasure and enjoyment within the guidelines of marriage. At the same time, I have had sex out of wedlock as I am not married. Point is, it may be wrong, but God isn't about every wrong you do. He's about forgiveness. Grace is not something earned, it is given. I don't really care what anyone thinks of my views. I am not judging anyone for having premarital sex or anything else, for that matter.

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Originally posted by Nite-Mer I'm sick of being flamed and sure I will induce more now. However, I want to clarify that the bible does not say that sex is merely for procreation. It is for pleasure and enjoyment within the guidelines of marriage. At the same time, I have had sex out of wedlock as I am not married. Point is, it may be wrong, but God isn't about every wrong you do. He's about forgiveness. Grace is not something earned, it is given. I don't really care what anyone thinks of my views. I am not judging anyone for having premarital sex or anything else, for that matter.

How do you know that 'God', if 'God' exists, is a he?

Look. I'm not telling any of you to believe what I believe. You make your choice. In my faith the pronoun "he" is used all the time.

Arbiter- I agree that many are wrong. I may be, but I strongly believe I am not. I am willing to wager against the consequences.

Well if i thought it was wrong i think i'd be a bit of a hypocrit

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, i'd hate to marry someone and discover they were shite in bed and be stuck with them for the rest of my life

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Originally posted by UWM How do you know that 'God', if 'God' exists, is a he?

well if u r a christian u have the idea that god is a "he" because it is said that jesus is an image of god so by that u conclude that god is a "he" hence we have jesus not jessica.

I can't be bothered to get into this argument.

perhaps this church is against premarital sex...but they sure are for molestation...they need to get their priorities straight

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Originally posted by Nite-Mer Look. I'm not telling any of you to believe what I believe. You make your choice. In my faith the pronoun "he" is used all the time. Arbiter- I agree that many are wrong. I may be, but I strongly believe I am not. I am willing to wager against the consequences.

Do you believe that all Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc ... are wrong and going to Hell?

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Originally posted by Nite-Mer I'm sick of being flamed and sure I will induce more now. However, I want to clarify that the bible does not say that sex is merely for procreation. It is for pleasure and enjoyment within the guidelines of marriage. At the same time, I have had sex out of wedlock as I am not married. Point is, it may be wrong, but God isn't about every wrong you do. He's about forgiveness. Grace is not something earned, it is given. I don't really care what anyone thinks of my views. I am not judging anyone for having premarital sex or anything else, for that matter.

How did I flame you? Did I quote you or mention your name? I simply said I hope no one on here has that belief. I was being serious and simply made a statement.

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Originally posted by UWM Do you believe that all Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc ... are wrong and going to Hell?

i think all religions kinda believe that they are right don't they?

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Originally posted by Floorfiller i think all religions kinda believe that they are right don't they?

Yes, but I'm just wondering if he thinks all these people are going to Hell and are wrong because they don't believe what he believes.

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Originally posted by UWM Do you believe that all Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc ... are wrong and going to Hell?

why the million questions to nite-mer last i checked he wasnt a priest..you know whenever i see a christian post about thier belifs all the athiests come out of the woodwork and attack them with questions. i think u do it to make urself feel better or to justify whatever u r doing that might be wrong according to christianity..like nite-mer posted if christianity is wrong then christians has nothing to worry about but if it is right you have alot to worry about..if attacking christianity makes you feel better abour urself and life by all means go ahead.

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Originally posted by trancebrat How did I flame you? Did I quote you or mention your name? I simply said I hope no one on here has that belief. I was being serious and simply made a statement.

Not you, Amber. You are always a sweetheart. I wasn't referencing you at all. I was answering you, knowing others would huff.

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Originally posted by Nite-Mer Not you, Amber. You are always a sweetheart. I wasn't referencing you at all. I was answering you, knowing others would huff.

Ok

Who said I was an atheist? Why are you jumping to these ludicrous conclusions?

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Originally posted by tranceaholic why the million questions to nite-mer last i checked he wasnt a priest..you know whenever i see a christian post about thier belifs all the athiests come out of the woodwork and attack them with questions. i think u do it to make urself feel better or to justify whatever u r doing that might be wrong according to christianity..like nite-mer posted if christianity is wrong then christians has nothing to worry about but if it is right you have alot to worry about..if attacking christianity makes you feel better abour urself and life by all means go ahead.

why is it that we should question everything else in our society but not religion?

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Originally posted by Floorfiller why is it that we should question everything else in our society but not religion?

I just want to be loved!

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Originally posted by UWM Who said I was an atheist? Why are you jumping to these ludicrous conclusions?

i was making a general statement about something i noticed on the forum..and usually people of religion rarely attack each other not publicly atleast lol

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Originally posted by trancebrat I just want to be loved!

We all lurve you!

In the TA internet friendship sort of way. I don't want to offend Mr. Bones

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Originally posted by trancebrat I just want to be loved!

yes me too hahahaha

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