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-- US gives up on WMD search
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| Originally posted by wolverine16 Nevertheless, his administration actually did take steps against terrorism. |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo the uranium purchase was a fact. |
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Al Gore was convinced WMD's existed |
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| The Pentagon creates the Office of Special Plans "in order to find evidence of what Wolfowitz and his boss, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, believed to be true-that Saddam Hussein had close ties to Al Qaeda, and that Iraq had an enormous arsenal of chemical, biological, and possibly even nuclear weapons that threatened the region and, potentially, the United States�The rising influence of the Office of Special Plans was accompanied by a decline in the influence of the C.I.A. and the D.I.A. bringing about a crucial change of direction in the American intelligence community." The office, hand-picked by the Administration, specifically "cherry-picked intelligence that supported its pre-existing position and ignoring all the rest" while officials deliberately "bypassed the government's customary procedures for vetting intelligence." http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/pollack.htm http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact |
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| (snip): "The review, prepared for President Bush in October 2002, summarized the findings of a classified, 90-page National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq's illicit weapons. Congressional officials said that notes taken by Senate staffers who were permitted to review the document show that it eliminated references to dissent within the government about the National Intelligence Estimate's conclusions. "In determining what the president was told about the contents of the N.I.E. dealing with Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, qualifiers and all, there is nothing clearer than this single page," Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, said in a 10-page "additional view" that was published as an addendum to the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on Friday. A separate white paper summarizing the National Intelligence Estimate was made public in October 2002. The Senate report criticized the white paper as having "misrepresented'' what the Senate committee described as a "more carefully worded assessment" in the classified intelligence estimate. For example, the white paper excluded information found in the National Intelligence Estimate, like the names of intelligence agencies that had dissented from some of the findings, most importantly on Iraq's nuclear weapons program. That approach, the Senate committee said, "provided readers with an incomplete picture of the nature and extent of the debate within the intelligence community regarding these issues." Among the specific dissents excluded from the public white paper on Iraq's weapons was the view of the State Department's intelligence branch, spelled out in the classified version of the document, that Iraq's importation of aluminum tubes could not be conclusively tied to a continuing nuclear weapons program, as other intelligence agencies asserted. Also left out of the white paper was the view of Air Force intelligence that pilotless aerial vehicles being built by Iraq, seen by other intelligence agencies as designed to deliver chemical or biological weapons, were not suited for that purpose." (/snip) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/14/p...print&position= |
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| Powell: "I think we ought to declare [the containment policy] a success. We have kept him contained, kept him in his box." He added Saddam "is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors" and that "he threatens not the United States." http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/931.htm http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/933.htm Vice President Dick Cheney said that "Saddam Hussein is bottled up" � a confirmation of the intelligence he had received. http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresi...vp20010916.html |
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| Clinton lied under oath to Congress. get your facts straight. |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo you tell me...or can you? |
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| Originally posted by tiesto14 Are you serious? - 1993 - World Trade Center Bombing - Treated as a 'regular crime' with no foreign terrorist involvement. However, Blind Islamic Radical Sheik is convicted for conspiracy. Bin Laden named as an un-indicted co-conspirator in 1996. The same year he is offered to the Clinton Admin by Sudan and refused saying they don't have enough evidence to convict him. Clinton never visits site. - 1993 - 18 Soldiers killed in Somalia in attack planned by bin Laden. Clinton pulls troops out of Somalia. Bin Laden claims victory and gains status with his followers as one who is able to make the Great Satan run. Battle of Mogadishu The body of one American was dragged through the streets of Mogadishu as the Somalian hordes cheered. Clinton responded by calling off the hunt for Mohammed Farrah Anidid and ordering our troops home. - 1995 - OKC Bombing. 168 dead. Domestic terrorists blamed. Evidence linking foreign terrorists overlooked by the Clinton admin. - 1995 - Operation Bojinka plot to destroy 11 airliners on January 21, 1995.flights from Asia (Phillipines, Tokyo, Korea, Hong Kong) to the US. Philippines authorities say that Bojinka was developed by Al-Qaida operatives Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed while they were in Manila, Philippines. The aircraft would have blown up over the Pacific Ocean simultaneously. Several thousand would have perished, and air travel would have been shut down worldwide for days, if not weeks, US govs estimate the prospective death toll to be about 4,000. The plot was abandoned after an apartment fire occurred in Manila. All evidence was found Yousef got 240 years along with his life sentence for the 1993 World Trade Center attacks. Clinton did nothing. - 1996 - TWA Flight 800. 230 dead. Mechanical Failure blamed. Hundreds of eyewitnesses ignored as they claim they saw a surface to air missile launch and destroy the plane. Clinton issues Executive Order 13039 to keep all involved in recovery process silent. Pilots Union claims FAA report on mechanical failure bogus. FBI tells witnesses what they saw was a single "fireworks" - 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia killed 19 and injured 200 military personnel. Clinton did nothing. - 1996 - Sudan offer to turn over bin Laden, Clinton blows off offer saying they don't have enough evidence to indict bin Laden. - 1997 - UNOCAL brought members of the Taliban to the States to wine and dine them, show them their U.S. offices and take them to Washington to meet with the Clinton State Department. The fact they are harboring a wanted terrorist, bin Laden, is ignored. - 1997 - Iraq refuses UN weapons inspectors to do their jobs, threatened to shoot down a US U2 spy plane. Clinton does nothing. - 1998 - Aug 7 Bombing of the US embassies in Africa (Kenya/Tanzania) killed 224 injured 5,000, Clinton does nothing. - 1998 - bin Laden issued his fatwa urging his followers to target the US and all Americans saying, "to kill Americans and their allies, civilians and military, is an individual duty of every Muslim who is able." War DECLARED on America..Clinton does NOTHING... - 2000 - Bombing of the USS Cole 17 sailors killed bin Laden and the al Qaeda are the suspects. Clinton, advised by Dick Clarke, did nothing. Clinton orders the remains of TWA Flight 800 destroyed ending any possible further investigation into the downing. - 2001 - 9.11 attacks, Bush came into office telling his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, he was "tired of swatting flies" -he wanted to eliminate al Qaeda. 3,000 Americans were murdered on 9.11. Since then, Bush has won 2 wars against countries that harbored Muslim fanatics, captured Hussein, immobilized bin Laden, destroyed al Qaeda's base, disarmed Libya and began to create the only functioning democracy in the Middle East other than Israel. Democrats opposed it all - except their phony support for war with Afghanistan, and now they claim to be outraged that in the months before 9-11, Bush did not do everything Democrats opposed doing after 9-11. What a surprise...Bush did all this...WHAT THE HELL DID CLINTON DO? NOTHING. Clinton greatest achievement was an act of brilliant passivity: And he takes personal credit for all the jobs created - a ridiculous assertion to make about the decade of Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. His great failing was foreign policy. Clinton let a decade of unprecedented American prosperity and power go without doing anything about al Qaeda, Afghanistan or Iraq. |
I'll get to Tiesto14's claims of "Clinton did nothing" sometime this weekend. It amazes me how he can blame Clinton for all the wrongdoings occurred during the immediate post-cold War time. I suppose Clinton could be blamed for certain things such as underfunding intelligence and the military, but then again he was only following in the footsteps of his predecessor, Bush Sr. who cut funding much more drastically then Clinton did in 4 yrs. compared to his 8.
Oh, the 1993 WTC occured on Bush Sr's watch - and all men except 1 were caught and tried. How that is Clinton's fault is a bit of a stretch for you to make off the top of my head.
And then you blame the OK city bombing on Clinton's terrorist policy failures, and overlooking possible terrorist links? Well I suppose he could do so if he wanted to simply throw away the hefty weight of evidence pointing to the guy we just executed.
And the 1996 TWA "cover-up"? I didn't realize you wore my brand of tin-foil hats? It doesn't fit you conservatives very well.
One could easily state Clinton's accomplishments on terrorism in a positive light:
-Terrorists of 1993 WTC bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1995 OK city bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1996 Khobar Towars bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1998 Embassy bombings caught and punished.
-Signed Anti-terrorism legislation.
-Bombed Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up Holland tunnel.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up Lincoln Tunnel
-Thwarted attempt on life of Pope.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up LAX.
-Thwarted two attempts to plant bombs in cites in the Northeast and Northwest US.
-Thwarted al-Qaida�s efforts to establish a militant Islamist state in Bosnia.
-Signed airport security bill.
-Ordered Taliban money frozen.
See, fun huh?
Now you don't mind if I just happen to turn the tables on what Bush neglected to do prior to 9/11, do you?:
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| 1999 �EXPLICIT WARNING THAT AL QAEDA HAD PLANS TO FLY AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS: A 1999 report prepared by the Library of Congress for the National Intelligence Council "warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon." The report specifically said, "Suicide bomber(s) belonging to al-Qaida's Martyrdom Battalion could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives�into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House." In response to the ominous warnings, the New York Times reports "under Janet Reno, the Justice Department's counterterrorism budget increased 13.6% in the fiscal year 1999, 7.1% in 2000 and 22.7% in 2001." During the Clinton Administration "the federal government had on several earlier occasions taken elaborate, secret measures to protect special events from just such an attack." [Source: CBS, 5/17/02; NY Times, 2/28/02; WSJ, 4/1/04] EARLY 2001 � MAJOR SURGE IN AL QAEDA ACTIVITY: "In late spring 2001, a sudden surge in activity began among known Al Qaeda operatives�a reporter from Middle East Broadcasting visited bin Laden at a camp in Afghanistan and noted that his supporters were preparing for attacks against American 'interests.'"[Source: The Age of Sacred Terror, 2003] EARLY 2001 � WHITE HOUSE DEPARTS FROM EFFORTS TO TRACK TERRORIST MONEY: The new Bush Treasury Department "disapproved of the Clinton Administration's approach to money laundering issues, which had been an important part of the drive to cut off the money flow to bin Laden." Specifically, the Bush Administration opposed Clinton Administration-backed efforts by the G-7 and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development that targeted countries with "loose banking regulations" being abused by terrorist financiers. Meanwhile, the Bush Administration provided "no funding for the new National Terrorist Asset Tracking Center." [Source: The Age of Sacred Terror, 2003] APRIL 30, 2001 - BUSH ADMINISTRATION SAYS BIN LADEN FOCUS WAS "MISTAKE": The Bush Administration released the government's annual report on terrorism, but unlike previous Administrations, it decided to specifically omit an "extensive mention of alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. A senior State Department official told CNN the U.S. government made a mistake in focusing so much energy on bin Laden." Similarly, AP reported in 2002 that the Bush Administration's "national security leadership met formally nearly 100 times in the months prior to the Sept. 11 attacks yet terrorism was the topic during only two of those sessions." [Source: CNN, 4/30/01; AP, 6/29/01] JULY 2001 �ANOTHER WARNING THAT AL QAEDA PLANNED TO USE PLANES AS MISSILES: The LA Times reported that U.S. and Italian officials were warned in July 2001 that "Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit of industrialized nations." [Source: LA Times, 9/27/01] JULY 2001 � ASHCROFT STOPS FLYING COMMERCIAL BECAUSE OF "THREAT ASSESSMENT": Attorney General John Ashcroft stopped flying commercial airlines and instead began "traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines" because of "what the Justice Department called a 'threat assessment.'" That "threat assessment" has never been made public. [Source: CBS, 7/26/01] AUGUST 2001 - PRESIDENT PERSONALLY WARNED OF AL QAEDA AIRPLANE PLOT: ABC News reported, Bush Administration "officials acknowledged that U.S. intelligence officials informed President Bush weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks that bin Laden's terrorist network might try to hijack American planes." Dateline NBC reported that on August 6, 2001, the President personally "received a one-and-a-half page briefing advising him that Osama bin Laden was capable of a major strike against the US, and that the plot could include the hijacking of an American airplane." [Source: ABC News, 5/16/02; NBC, 9/10/02] SEPTEMBER 2001 - PENTAGON OFFICIALS CHANGE FLIGHTS ON 9/11 BECAUSE OF SECURITY: Newsweek reported that on 9/10/01 "a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns." Newsweek also reported "that as many as 10 to 12 warnings" were issued before 9/11, and "more than two of the warnings specifically mentioned the possibility of hijackings." [Source: Newsweek, 9/24/01] SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 � RICE SPEECH ON SECURITY GOALS HAS NO MENTION OF TERRORISM: National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was scheduled to give a speech outlining "the threats and problems of today and the day after, not the world of yesterday." But instead of focusing on the new challenges, Rice instead was set to address Cold War-type challenges by "promoting missile defense as the cornerstone of a new national security strategy." The address "contained no mention of al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or Islamic extremist groups." [Source: Wash Post, 4/1/04] Beore 9/11: Reducing Counter-Terrorism The federal government was rapidly increasing its counter-terrorism efforts at the time President Bush took office. As the New York Times reported, Attorney General Janet Reno ended her tenure as "perhaps the strongest advocate" of counterterrorism spending. Similarly, Newsweek and the Washington Post reported National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was "totally preoccupied" with the prospect of a domestic terror attack, telling his replacement that they need to be "spending more time on this issue" than on any other. The focus changed dramatically when the Bush Administration took office. ADMINISTRATION SHIFTED LAW ENFORCEMENT'S FOCUS OFF OF COUNTER-TERRORISM: The New York Times reported that in the lead-up to 9/11, Attorney General John Ashcroft "said fighting terrorism was a top priority of his agency," yet upon entering office, "he identified more than a dozen other objectives for greater emphasis within the Justice Department before the attacks." On Aug. 9, the Administration distributed a strategic plan to the Justice Department highlighting its new goals from a list of Clinton Administration goals. The item that referred to intelligence and investigation of terrorists was left un-highlighted. [Source: NY Times, 2/28/02] ASHCROFT OVERRULED EFFORTS FOCUSED ON COUNTER-TERROR: Newsweek reported that "in the spring of 2001, the attorney general had an extraordinary confrontation with the then FBI Director Louis Freeh at an annual meeting of special agents." The two talked before appearing, and Ashcroft laid out his priorities for Freeh: "basically violent crime and drugs," recalls one participant. Freeh replied bluntly that those were not his priorities, and began to talk about terror and counterterrorism. "Ashcroft didn't want to hear about it," says a former senior law-enforcement official." [Source: Newsweek, 5/27/02] BUSH ADMINISTRATION TERMINATED PROGRAM THAT TRACKED AL QAEDA: "In the months before 9/11, the U.S. Justice Department curtailed a highly classified program called 'Catcher's Mitt' to monitor Al Qaeda suspects in the United States." [Source: Newsweek, 3/21/04] SO LITTLE CONCERN FOR COUNTER-TERROR THAT A WHITE HOUSE TASK FORCE NEVER MET: In January of 2001, the U.S. Government's bipartisan Commission on National Security gave the White House a report that warned of an attack on the homeland and urged the new Administration to implement its specific "recommendations to prevent acts of domestic terrorism. The Administration rejected the Commission's report, "preferring to put aside the recommendations." Instead, the Administration waited until May of 2001 to appoint Vice President Cheney to head a task force "to combat terrorist attacks on the United States." But according to the Washington Post, neither "Cheney's review nor Bush's took place." Meanwhile, Newsweek reported that when senators "sent a copy of draft legislation on counterterrorism and homeland defense to Cheney's office on July 20," they were told by Cheney's top aide "that it might be another six months before he would be able to review the material." [Source: Salon, 9/12/04; White House release, 5/8/01; Washington Post, 1/20/02; Newsweek, 5/27/02] WHITE HOUSE BEGAN EFFORT TO CUT COUNTER-TERRORISM PROGRAMS: The New York Times reported that in its final 2003 budget request, the Administration "called for spending increases in 68 programs, none of which directly involved counterterrorism...In his Sept. 10 submission to the budget office, Ashcroft did not endorse FBI requests for $58 million for 149 new counterterrorism field agents, 200 intelligence analysts and 54 additional translators. Ashcroft proposed a $65 million cut for a program that gives states and localities counterterrorism grants for equipment, including radios and decontamination suits and training." By comparison, "Under Janet Reno, the department's counterterrorism budget increased 13.6% in the fiscal year 1999, 7.1% in 2000 and 22.7% in 2001." [Source: NY Times, 2/28/02] ADMINISTRATION LEFT "GAPS" IN MILITARY'S REQUEST FOR COUNTER-TERROR FUNDS: The Washington Post reported that in its first budget, the White House left "gaps" between "what military commanders said they needed to combat terrorists and what they got." Newsweek noted that, among other things, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld elected not to re-launch a Predator drone that had been tracking bin Laden. When the Senate Armed Services Committee tried to fill those gaps, "Rumsfeld said he would recommend a veto" on September 9. [Source: Washington Post, 1/20/02; Newsweek, 5/27/02; NY Times, 2/28/02] ADMINISTRATION STOPPED PREDATOR FLIGHTS TRACKING AL QAEDA IN AFGHANISTAN: AP reported "though Predator drones spotted Osama bin Laden as many as three times in late 2000, the Bush administration did not fly the unmanned planes over Afghanistan during its first eight months." Additionally, "the military successfully tested an armed Predator throughout the first half of 2001" but the White House "failed to resolve a debate over whether the CIA or Pentagon should operate the armed Predators" and the armed Predator never got off the ground before 9/11. [Source: AP, 6/25/03] WHILE CUTTING COUNTER-TERROR, THE WHITE HOUSE SENT FUNDING TO THE TALIBAN: At the same time the White House was trying to cut counter-terrorism funding, it gave "$43 million in drought aid to Afghanistan after the Taliban began a campaign against poppy growers." As the 5/29/01 edition of Newsday noted, the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan "are a decidedly odd choice for an outright gift of $43 million from the Bush Administration. This is the same government against which the United Nation imposes sanctions, at the behest of the United States, for refusing to turn over the terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden." [Washington Post, 9/23/01; Newsday, 5/29/01] |
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| After 9/11: White House Refuses to Protect the Homeland For months after 9/11, the Bush Administration opposed the creation of a Department of Homeland Security to better coordinate efforts to protect America. Now, even after the White House was forced to support the proposal, it has continued to drastically underfund basic homeland security, with many experts saying the department's budget is at least $14 billion short of what it needs. The White House itself virtually acknowledged its negligence: the New York Times reported in 2003 the Administration admitted that it is "not providing enough money to protect against terrorist attacks on American soil" and that "domestic counterterrorism programs have been shortchanged." As a result, a recent GAO report concludes the White House is not adequately "addressing all of the elements of resources, investments and risk management" to protect America. UNDERFUNDING BORDER SECURITY: Because of underfunding, the Justice Department reported in March of 2004 "the United States remains vulnerable to infiltration by known criminals and terrorists because of chronic delays in making millions of FBI fingerprints available to the Border Patrol." The nation is still about four years away from an integrated system between the FBI and Border Patrol that would "allow for a quick, automated check of fingerprints for the roughly 1 million illegal immigrants who are caught each year...That means thousands who could be prosecuted for crimes or detained as security risks will be simply returned to their home countries, free to try to re-enter the United States, the report found." [Source: AP, 3/4/04] UNDERFUNDING PORT SECURITY: The San Antonio Express-News noted critics point out that the White House "has skirted port security in budget requests, including a plea by the Coast Guard for $1 billion this year to secure ports on American coasts." Currently, there are "fewer than 100 inspectors assigned to overseas ports" to inspect cargo containers headed to the U.S. That means that "of the 7 million cargo containers that arrive at US ports yearly, only a small percentage have been physically or mechanically inspected." Experts say these containers can be "shipped into a U.S. port with virtually no oversight, and remain a huge risk for importation of biological and radiological weapons." [Source: San Antonio Express-News, 4/1/03; Knight-Ridder, 2/29/04] UNDERFUNDING AVIATION SECURITY: According to the Century Foundation, "The Transportation Security Administration estimates there is a 35% to 65% chance that terrorists are planning to place a bomb in the cargo of a U.S. passenger plane. Yet, only about 5% of air cargo is screened, even if it is transported on passenger planes." Furthermore, the measures controlling general civil aviation continue to be voluntary and it remains unclear which ones have been instituted and by whom. [Source: The Century Foundation] UNDERFUNDING FIRST RESPONDERS: In a landmark report, former Sen. Warren Rudman (R-NH) said "the United States is drastically underfunding local emergency responders and remains dangerously unprepared to handle a catastrophic attack on American soil, particularly one involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-impact conventional weapons. If the nation does not take immediate steps to better identify and address the urgent needs of emergency responders, the next terrorist incident could be even more devastating than 9/11." The White House has refused to address this problem: less than a year after 9/11 the President threatened to veto additional first responder funding. And just this year, top police and firefighters organizations noted that the Administration proposed "a reduction of $1.57 billion, or 31.9%" in funding for first responders in 2005 alone. [Source: Rudman Report, 6/29/03; Washington Times, 3/4/04] CUTTING FUNDING TO SECURE LOOSE WMD: Despite President Bush's rhetorical support for non-proliferation efforts, the Center for Defense Information reports the Administration has requested a $41.6 million (9.3%) decrease in funding for the Pentagon's Cooperative Threat Reduction program � the government's chief program to secure loose nuclear material that could be obtained by terrorists. The Administration also proposes in 2005 to cut $21 million (8%) out of Energy Department programs aimed at securing nuclear material in Russia. [Source: CDI, 2/20/04; Arms Control Association, 3/04] IGNORING RAIL SECURITY: With concerns raised after the Madrid train attack, Asa Hutchinson, the Bush Administration's own Undersecretary for Homeland Security, said much can be done to improve security in the U.S. rail system. However, he also said that "we have to recognize that it has been historically an open system, very difficult to add layers of security." [Source: USA Today, 5/16/04] IGNORING POSTAL SECURITY: Despite anthrax and ricin attacks through the mail, Congressional Quarterly reported that "the president's $37 million budget request in 2005 for the U.S. Postal Service does not include $779 million for biodetection technology the agency had sought to safeguard against anthrax-like attacks." [Source: Congressional Quarterly, 2/2/04] http://www.americanprogress.org/sit...JRJ8OVF&b=43926 |
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| Originally posted by wolverine16 The uranium purchase never happened and questions were raised about it to the administration BEFORE the State of the Union. Get your facts straight. And Bush lied to the world. |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 You must know something that our intelligence officals do not. You care to cite specifically any intelligence info. pertaining to the purchase of uranium by Iraq from Niger? From all intelligence reports I've read (specifically the Senate Intelligence and 9/11 Commission report), no purchase was made. A meeting had occurred between the two countries, but nothing came about that meeting in any way. True, neither he nor Clinton decided to cherry-pick intelligence to bolster their case for an all-out invasion and post-war nation building afterwards. And yes, cherry-pickin' did occur: Logically, one would believe Gore and Clinton had thought Saddam was well-enough contained. Well, guess who else thought Saddam was contained prior to invasion?: It's amazing how much money, some $65 million, was spent just to prove that Clinton lied about his sexual affairs in office. In hindsight, I really don't know which is more despicable - my former president lying about getting a blowjob on my taxpaying bill, or you ridiculous Conservatives making a fucking witchhunt and spending that much of my money on the whole debacle. Oh yeah, Condoleeeeza Rice lied too. And our newly elect Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff also lied under oath: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/p...html?oref=login Do they count? |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo look, i've read the entire Butler report. i have and will stand by it. you don't have to. it's not really that important. http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo don't fuckin start with me dude. i didn't want to be here in the first place. it's friday, and i have chicken wings to eat with my beer, not red herring |
Wings & beer does indeed sound good. Time out for now and will check back in tomorrow after some Guinness.
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| Originally posted by tiesto14 Trancer-X What you said really bothered me, when you said money does not buy happiness! I grew up in NYC to a family of wealth but I going to public school in Manhattan I had many friends who were dirt poor. Friends who never saw their parents because their parents had to work 3 jobs just to buy food and pay the rent. Friends who had to go straight from school and work hard labor right after school up until 11pm at night then do their homework and get to bed at 2am in the morning only to have to get up at 5am to take care of their younger sister/brother because their parents were not there. Friends who wore cloths with holes in them and went through the day eating only Saltines, 2 twenty five cent juices and a bologna sandwich (which consisted of 1 piece of meat and 1 piece of bread rolled up) because they could not afford anything else. Friends who had no video games, no computers, no CDs, no toys, no headphones, no cars, no cloths, no nights out to unwind NOTHING..Not a damn thing. Friends that had no health insurance, never went to the dentist, hadn�t been to the doctor for a physical in years, couldn�t afford glasses, medicine, gloves in the winter and walked in a pair of used Pumas with holes in the soles in the snow they got from their uncle that is in jail (who went to jail because he stole to feed his own kids). Friends that practically raised their siblings, never got a birthday or Christmas present, had to cut their own hair with scissors they stole from art class. Friends that had to share the same bath water with their mother, brothers and sisters because there wasn�t enough hot water, so their baths consisted of getting in for 2 minutes then getting out. Friends that had to steal toilet paper from school and could only shit in a toilet at the Fang�s Chinese take out restaurant on the corner because their plumbing in their apartment didn�t always work. Friends who had to risk dieing, getting shot, getting stabbed or be beaten up by racist cops as they walked from school to work to home in Washington Heights. Friends who never knew what it was like to go to a club, a bar or a party because they had to work JUST to eat. Then there is me�I came from a good background and never had to worry about such things. But there was a point in my life when I was all alone and saw what the world is made of. My father moved to the Chicago and I lived with my mother who was dirt poor (my father made the corporate cash)�anyway my mother ended up getting evicted from our apartment and I had no where to go. My sisters could not take me in, my brother had no room, my father and I were not speaking and all my friends could barely help themselves, my mother was a lost cause and I had $40 in my pocket. I had 24 hours to vacate the premises and could only take what I could carry at the age of 19. I wore 3 sets of cloths at one time and had 2 duffle bags..i had to leave everything that would not fit behind for the landlord to either throw away or keep for himself. So here I was at 19�I was working but not making much�. I had 2 duffle bags and the clothes on my back.i walked out of my building and looked both ways and broke down�I had NO WHERE TO GO and NO ONE TO GO TO!!!! So I walked the streets for a few hours and decided I would check out a shelter (since it was cold out)�So I go this shelter on 34th street and they turn me away because they were full, so I went uptown a little to 43rd street and got the same bullshit�I said fuck it and walked the streets for the night�finally falling asleep at 6am while people are heading to work� Anyway to make my story short�. I made it out alright I ended up going in with my girlfriends family which I NEVER thought they would let me�but on MY OWN�. I now own my own business and am happy�. But let me tell you something, my young and na�ve friend, when the shit hits the fan and you find you have nowhere to go and no one to help you and you have nothing in your pockets and are faced with living on the streets with absolutely no hope what so ever�then and only then come at me with money doesn�t buy happiness� You are an absolute smack in the face to all the people that struggle in this world�as you sit behind your thousand dollar computer, your CD/MP3/Vinyl collection, your trendy cloths, your car, your parents, and the countless other things you take for granted�. you have not lived the real world�you philosophize about the ways of the world and the ways of people yet you have never experienced life�.all the books and all the internet sites you visit can NEVER teach you that�.so before you preach to me with your self righteous condescending views, walk a day in some of my friends shoes and not sit behind your computer screen in your parents house with the heat on and your mommy cooking you dinner and still wiping your ass! |
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| Originally posted by tiesto14 the world is not as humanistic as you think...it is harsh and cruel |
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| Originally posted by wolverine16 Deaths Based on Lies Scoreboard: Bill Clinton - 1 (Jim McDougal in jail of natural causes) |
Okay, back to the thread topic.
I thought that the material found at this link was pretty interesting:
Schakowsky: Bush Administration�s Misstatement of the Day
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| Originally posted by wolverine16 I have a link as well |
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| Two months ago, the headlines were dominated by President Bush's past business practices, corporate scandals and the sagging economy and stock market. A little Iraq-invasion talk, and presto, they're all gone, creating the `positive issue environment' Rove wanted |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Seriously! |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Don't forget Vince Foster! |
Just because we haven't found wmds doesn't mean they're not there. I'm still holding out hope. Even if you could prove me wrong or I knew there weren't any to begin with, I'd still do the same thing because... errr I'm George Bush. 
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X Okay, back to the thread topic. I thought that the material found at this link was pretty interesting: Schakowsky: Bush Administration�s Misstatement of the Day |
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| Originally posted by igottaknow Just because we haven't found wmds doesn't mean they're not there. I'm still holding out hope. Even if you could prove me wrong or I knew there weren't any to begin with, I'd still do the same thing because... errr I'm George Bush. |
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| Originally posted by Trancer-X ... |
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| Originally posted by wolverine16 It all goes back to the equation: 9/11 + X = Shut up (X = whatever the Bush administration says) |
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| Originally posted by Q5echo the uranium purchase was a fact. |
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| Document 10a: Forged correspondence to Minister of Foreign Affairs, Republic of Niger, concerning visit to Niger by Iraqi ambassador to the Vatican, February 1, 1999. |
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| Document 10b: Forged correspondence within Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of Niger, concerning transfer of uranium to Iraq, July 30, 1999. |
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| Document 10c: Forged letter to the President, Republic of Niger, concerning agreement to supply 500 tons of uranium per year to Iraq, July 27, 2000. |
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| Document 10d: Forged letter to the Niger Ambassador to Italy, concerning protocol of agreement to supply uranium to Iraq, October 10, 2000. |
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| The only publicly acknowledged evidence for the claim that Iraq had tried to acquire uranium from Africa, which President Bush made in his January 28, 2003 State of the Union address, based on British intelligence information, are these documents that were claimed to have been official correspondence involving officials of the Republic of Niger. The charge that Iraq had sought to purchase uranium had been deleted from a previous speech due to the CIA's objection that the information had not been confirmed. Documents 10a-10d were all determined to be crude forgeries - which included names and titles that did not match the individuals who held office at the time the letters were purportedly written - although the British government has insisted it has additional information that would support the claim that Iraq was seeking to purchase uranium. The inclusion of the claim in the State of the Union despite its removal from an earlier speech, combined with the revelation of the forged documents, produced further criticism of the Bush administration and CIA Director George Tenet. Tenet, and then the president, took responsibility for the inclusion of the unvetted information. An FBI investigation into the apparent forgery that commenced in the spring of 2003 is now "at a critical stage" according the Washington Post (Mike Allen and Susan Schmidt, "Bush Aides Testify in Leak Probe," Washington Post, Tuesday, February 10, 2004; Page A01). |
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| Originally posted by igottaknow Daily Show |
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| Originally posted by ResonantDrag four determined forgeries used as a basis for proving a country has a nuclear weapons program and substantiates justification to invade said country = tenet gets the presidential medal of freedom |
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