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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- TOTA Mobile/Wireless/Celluar/VOIP Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by Pettiscool fuck bell.......that is all

I hate Bell. I was with them for 3 months before deciding to cancel my contract and switch to Rogers. The way i saw it i was actually saving money by paying the $200 cancellation fee (which is pretty insane if you think about it). Good riddance Bell Canada, you bloody crooks. Alexander Bell is probably cursing you all from his grave.

Now i've said that, Bell has the worst customer service i've ever experienced in my life (and i've gone through many providers).

quote:

Originally posted by loca Now i've said that, Bell has the worst customer service i've ever experienced in my life (and i've gone through many providers).

You said it.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker ^^^^--- It's not 850 so (IMO) it is a waste of money.

I've actually been thinking about and researching this comment a bit more... 850mhz frequency will become irrelevant once 3G becomes the new standard in Canadian mobile network technology (about 2-5 years away).

3G will be operating in the 1900-range frequency band in Canada.
http://www.cellular-news.com/3G/canada.shtml

I also realized that the Motorola Timeport 7389 (triband: 900/1800/1900) phone that I bought in France, unlocked, and have been using here for 3 years has worked perfectly for me, and the only time I needed to use it in rural areas was when I drive between Toronto and Montreal and I have rarely lost service; the phone always finds a network on the 401 even if it switches operators (I don't care about the roaming fees because it's for emergency use only!)

So that's why I think the SE W900 will suit me (or anyone else who wants this phone that would own all other phones) just fine in Canada. Also, I don't plan on living on a farm which is the only area where the 850mhz is standard. 100% of Southern Ontario, and all the large cities in BC, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada are covered by the 1900 mhz GSM frequency.

A great article on 3G technology (helps in understanding all the new acronyms: UTMS, EDGE, etc.):
http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/3g/intro.shtml

Speaking of bluetooth-enabled cell phones, I was thinking of also upgrading my car audio to make it bluetooth compatibale. Why?

Long story...

I haven't purchased a cell phone in 5 years; I haven't bought a portable audio device in 4 years, and I haven't EVER bought a camera (my Mom gave me her old Canon about 8 years ago and I hardly use it) or upgraded my car stereo (so I can conveniently listen to my EDM without having convert mp3s to wav tracks). While patiently watching the trends in the market, I think now is the best time to buy one product that encompasses all.

I want to use the W900i as a decent digital camera (2 MP), as an awesome MP3 player (with up to 2GB storage space and a remote control), and as a PDA/phone that is 3G compliant for video calls (when that becomes a standard--so I don't have to buy another phone for another 5 years or so).

PLUS I want to be pimpin' of course

The car aspect comes in because a) I don't want to buy a whole handsfree unit for the car and b) I don't want to have to burn mp3s on to CDs to play them in my car. I never bought the 6-disc changer because about 6 years ago when I got my first car, a) I couldn't afford it, and b) Napster came out. This is the only missing link for me.

I would like for the W900i to be used as my song database for the CAR, just like the new technology that allows the iPod to be used with a compatible car audio device. The iPod technology is a separate unit that is connected by wire, though; it's not using bluetooth the way I would like.

I did some research on bluetooth-compatible car stereo head units and the only decent thing I came across was this:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/prod...&taxonomy_id=25

How appropriate, I thought, that PIONEER was the FIRST company to come up with this technology!

Anyway, I have to research a bit more, but my understanding is that the bluetooth compatibility between the Pioneer produce and my future phone is limited to the telephonic systems; that the music can't be transfered and played on the car stereo, the way an iPod can. Perhaps I'll wait to buy the W900i until I can confirm that the music audio will also be transferable to a compliant car stereo (Sony please make something!!! Maybe I'll write them an email...). Not sure if the limitation is in the phone, car stereo, or bluetooth technology...oh well

Good things come to those who wait...

One more step towards getting the W900i:

I just confirmed yesterday with Sony Citibank Mastercard that I can use my $1500 worth of points towards a Sony product from any Authorized Sony Dealer in the WORLD, not just Canada!!!! w00000000t!!! W900i from fnac.com in Paris, HERE I COME!!!!

Holy shit I'm getting totally carried away here...

Just found out that 3G may be a thing of the past!!!!

Mobile WiFi/WiMax:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...40/b3953078.htm

quote:

Nokia's 9500, for instance, contains no less than eight radios and antennas to support various GSM and 3G frequencies, plus Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. "It's getting more and more difficult for engineering," says Niklas Savander, senior vice-president for mobile devices in the enterprise group.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree I've actually been thinking about and researching this comment a bit more... 850mhz frequency will become irrelevant once 3G becomes the new standard in Canadian mobile network technology (about 2-5 years away). So that's why I think the SE W900 will suit me (or anyone else who wants this phone that would own all other phones) just fine in Canada. Also, I don't plan on living on a farm which is the only area where the 850mhz is standard. 100% of Southern Ontario, and all the large cities in BC, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic Canada are covered by the 1900 mhz GSM frequency.

It is true that 100% of Southern Ontario is covered by 1900 Mhz, but 850 Mhz has better penetration abilities. Which means in a building where 1900 signal is very weak, an 850 capable phone will make use of the 850 spectrum. By not using an 850 capable phone you're really limiting your use of the network.

As for 3G only on 1900 in Canada....that is still to be determined. I won't get into the reasons as to why initially 850 won't be deployed, but I am almost certain it will be deployed eventually.

quote:

Originally posted by M�bius Which means in a building where 1900 signal is very weak, an 850 capable phone will make use of the 850 spectrum.

Cool! Thanks for the info. The only time I've personally had problems in any building in the GTA or Montreal with my 900/1800/1900 triband phone is when I've been in an elevator.

Do you work in the telecommunications industry? If so, I'm very curious about your insight re: the bluetooth/WiFi/WiMax debate!

EDIT:
where the hell is RJ?!?!?I need some wireless love here!!!

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree Cool! Thanks for the info. The only time I've personally had problems in any building in the GTA or Montreal with my 900/1800/1900 triband phone is when I've been in an elevator. Do you work in the telecommunications industry? If so, I'm very curious about your insight re: the bluetooth/WiFi/WiMax debate! EDIT: where the hell is RJ?!?!?I need some wireless love here!!!

Yes I work in the Telecom. industy.

As for the whole cellular/bluetooh/WiFi/WiMax debate, I don't really think there is much to debate. Each has their pros and cons, but I personally believe that if executed properly, a carrier can use all four to greatly enhance their network as well as services offered to end users.

quote:

Originally posted by Euphorica im a huge nokia fan but i think i like the d600 the best out of those choices!

Luv that phone...

President's Choice Movile exists now,
20 cents a minute prepaid
http://www.presidentschoice.ca/PCTelecom/PCMobile/

quote:

Originally posted by Pettiscool President's Choice Movile exists now,

Yup, and as with Virgin Mobile, they piggy back off of Bell Mobility's network.

quote:

Originally posted by M�bius Yes I work in the Telecom. industy.

LOL

\

Holy shit, how come no one's mentioned this phone yet? EFFIN SMOOTH!!!

Nokia 8801
http://www.nokia.ca/english/products/8801/8801.asp

Study blames CRTC policies for lagging cellphone usage

Kevin Restivo
Financial Post

Tuesday, December 13, 2005

Cellphone usage in Canada lags behind most other industrialized nations because of outdated rules set by the federal telecom watchdog, a new study by the C.D. Howe Institute suggests.

The study, conducted by University of Victoria (New Zealand) Professor Neil Quigley, cites "artificially low" home-phone prices set by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission as the main reason fewer Canadians use cellphones compared with their international counterparts.

"One of the causes of Canadians' slowness to adopt cellular telephony is our regulatory policy, in particular, long-standing cross-subsidies that maintain artificially low wireline prices, reducing cellular's relative competitiveness," Mr. Quigley wrote in his report, titled "Going Mobile -- Slowly."

Roughly one out of every two Canadians use a cellphone. In some countries, such as Italy and Iceland, every citizen uses a cellphone and some own more than one. Mr. Quigley notes Canada is ranked 26th in the 30-member Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development for cellphone usage.

Mr. Quigley said the CRTC should recognize the cellphone is a competitor to the home phone and adjust its policies accordingly.

Without change, Canadians will be bypassed by an entire generation of wireless technology being used by people in other countries.

"The conclusions they draw are the right conclusions," said Brian Sharwood, a telecom consultant with the SeaBoard Group in Toronto. "The carriers have held down [wireline] prices for too long. More people would choose a wireless phone if the prices weren't so low."

Another issue that has suppressed cellphone adoption in Canada is the inability for people to bring their wireless phone number with them to a rival service provider, sometimes called wireless number portability, Mr. Sharwood said.

High prices are another culprit. In a report issued earlier this year, Seaboard Group contended the average Canadian pays 60% more than U.S. plans and 19% more than what Europeans shell out each month. Seaboard argues high-volume wireless users pay a "significant" premium compared with U.S. consumers.

Telecom management consultant Eamon Hoey said the carriers benefit from an "oligarchic" structure. The carriers are focused on average revenue per user, or ARPU, at the expense of customer service and competition.

"They depress the market by constantly monitoring each other," Mr. Hoey said. "They are focused on the balance sheet more than the customers."

The CRTC did not immediately have a comment.
� National Post 2005

Phone hang-up: Regulation is slowing the adoption of cellular in Canada. It stifles investment and competition and adds customer cost

Neil Quigley and Margaret Sanderson
Financial Post

Tuesday, December 13, 2005

Canadians driven to distraction by the sound of yet another cellphone chiming across the restaurant, or appalled by the sight of one more highway driver arguing distractedly with her BlackBerry, might be surprised to learn that Canada was 26th among developed countries to roll out digital cellular networks. Not only that, we stand 28th among 30 OECD countries in cellular subscriptions per person.

Like it or not, the cellular telephone's convenience and commercial usefulness has changed forever the way we communicate in our personal and business lives.

Because of digital networks' cost-effectiveness and importance, many developing countries have dodged the cost of stringing cables throughout the countryside, jumping directly to the world of wireless digital communications -- in those countries, new investment in wires is focused on data transmission, not voice or consumer services.

Within a few years, cellular network devices will be the pre-eminent communications tool worldwide for e-mail, voice and digital photography. But not necessarily in Canada, where regulatory immobility is a problem and Canadians have been slow to cut the cord and share in the benefits of cellular digital services.

One cause of Canadians' slowness to adopt cellular telephony is our regulatory policy. In particular, long-standing cross-subsidies maintain artificially low wireline prices, reducing cellular's relative competitiveness and incentives to invest in better-quality, expanded cellular coverage. Canadians who drive even small distances know how spotty service coverage can be, and slow investment in networks just might be the reason.

Because relatively few Canadians have cut the cord -- replacing their wireline service with cellular only -- the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) believes cellular service is not an effective competitor with wireline service. Accordingly, the CRTC has maintained regulatory control over retail and wholesale wireline rates and set local retail rates at very low levels -- undermining the cellular market.

The CRTC's May, 2005, decision on voice over Internet protocol (VoIP) telephony reflects its narrow view of competitive conditions. The CRTC established a regulatory regime that protects various VoIP service providers from competition from incumbent local exchange carriers.

The CRTC believes it is protecting competition by protecting VoIP "competitors."

Their choice is misguided. Although it will certainly encourage customers to transfer from the Incumbent Local Exchange Carriers (ILECs) to VoIP competitors, it will also result in higher prices for VoIP than would otherwise exist. In addition, the spread of VoIP throughout Canada is likely to be slower and less extensive with regulation of VoIP services than it would otherwise be. By failing to consider the wider competitive environment, the CRTC maintains extensive regulatory control over ILEC retail wireline services at a time when technological advances -- either by cellular or VoIP -- are undermining the case for regulation of retail prices and for universal retail wireline service obligations.

The CRTC's policy of keeping wireline local access prices low is a classic illustration of the trade-off between static and dynamic efficiency. Low wireline prices benefit the consumers of that technology but inhibit the development of a competing technology -- cellular.

The lower rate of adoption of cellular technology has large dynamic efficiency costs for Canadian consumers because the low uptake creates an environment in which expected return on investment in new technologies is reduced, investment is retarded, and new services are introduced much more slowly than in other countries. Canadians therefore pay higher prices for, and/or receive fewer services from, cellular subscriptions than consumers in other countries. Limited demand inhibits new investment and denies network operators the benefits of economies of scale. The same situation may arise with VoIP.

A dynamically competitive cellular sector in Canada would benefit all consumers of telephone services by providing lower prices, superior service and greater competitive discipline for incumbent wireline providers. It should therefore be a matter of concern to Canadian telecommunications policy-makers that the pace of cellular service adoption and the transfer of local and long distance calls to the cellular network lags OECD countries. Because of the pervasiveness of regulation of telecommunications in Canada, regulatory policy has a substantial effect on the patterns of substitution and competition, and that means regulatory change could provide substantial benefits to consumers.

What to do?

First, the CRTC should consider finding an alternative to universally low regulated prices for local wireline service as a way to address any perceived equity issues associated with the low-cost access to wireline service.

Second, the CRTC should acknowledge that the evidence of call substitution and line replacement from other countries (and Canada) suggests that, despite being differentiated products, wireline and cellular services do compete with each other. If prices for local wireline service were consistent with those in other countries, the price of cellular service would be closer to that of wireline service and cellular adoption and wireline call and line displacement would all increase.

The price difference resulting from CRTC policy creates the impression that, for most consumers in Canada, cellular and wireline local service are not substitutes and are therefore not part of the same market; this in turn perpetuates the regulations that created the price difference in the first place.

Third, once it is recognized that cellular and wireline services compete, government policy-makers need to consider how cellular policies affect the competitiveness of both cellular and wireline service. Foreign ownership restrictions and limited spectrum allocations will limit the number of cellular providers, thereby making cellular and wireline markets less competitive than they would be without these restrictions.

All those beeps, buzzes and ring tones are the sounds of business getting done and families and friends arranging dinner and to meet at the show. Federal regulation need not complicate their arrangements.

Neil Quigley is professor of economics at Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand, an International Fellow of the C.D. Howe Institute. Margaret Sanderson is a vice-president of the consulting firm CRA International Limited. Their recent paper, Going Mobile -- Slowly: How Wireline Telephone Regulation Slows Cellular Network Development, is available at cdhowe.org.
� National Post 2005

RAZR-thin slider from Samsung? I love you, Samsung.

http://www.mobileburn.com/gallery.j...&source=SIDEBAR

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 RAZR-thin slider from Samsung? I love you, Samsung.

Like that will happen anytime soon (in Canada)...

BTW - Check out this Bell Mobility plan just announced:

$50 All-In-One JawBreaker Plan*
350 daytime minutes
350 Additional Bonus Minutes!**
Unlimited Local Bell2Bell Calling**
Unlimited Weeknights Monday to Friday 8pm to 7am
Unlimited Weekends Friday 8pm to Monday 7am
Call waiting, conference calling included
$35 Connection Fee Waived

*Includes System Access Fee, 911 Fee, Caller Ring Tunes, and Mobile Browser.
**Applicable on 1, 2, or 3 year terms, and for the length of the term. Bonus available to new activations only.

Effective December 9th, 2005 to January 8th, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Like that will happen anytime soon (in Canada)...

850MHz version for T-Mobile in the USA, so hello new phone!

Cale, I don't know if you're going to stay with Ma Bell, but...

Check out this link comparing the Motorola E815 and Samsung MM-A920 (both available w/ Bell Mobility): http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/co...B%5D=&id%5B%5D=

Which one would you get?

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Cale, I don't know if you're going to stay with Ma Bell, but... Check out this link comparing the Motorola E815 and Samsung MM-A920 (both available w/ Bell Mobility): http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/co...B%5D=&id%5B%5D= Which one would you get?

I think I'd go with the A920.

The two phones are so close in specification and the features that one has and the other doesn't are so unimportant to me (hearing aid compatible, great) that it basically comes down to the form factor itself. Since both are of the clamshell design I guess it's just looks, and in that department the Samsung wins out for me. It's lighter, too.

{edit} Holy SHIT, Bell is charging $299 for the A920 with a 3-year contract? That's ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker BTW - Check out this Bell Mobility plan just announced: $50 All-In-One JawBreaker Plan* 350 daytime minutes 350 Additional Bonus Minutes!** Unlimited Local Bell2Bell Calling** Unlimited Weeknights Monday to Friday 8pm to 7am Unlimited Weekends Friday 8pm to Monday 7am Call waiting, conference calling included $35 Connection Fee Waived *Includes System Access Fee, 911 Fee, Caller Ring Tunes, and Mobile Browser. **Applicable on 1, 2, or 3 year terms, and for the length of the term. Bonus available to new activations only. Effective December 9th, 2005 to January 8th, 2005

and by the minute billing... no thanks.

Here's a $35 plan to complement the $50 one:

$35 All-In-One Talk and More Plan*
100 daytime minutes + 100 Bonus Minutes
100 Additional Bonus Minutes!**
Unlimited Local Bell2Bell Calling**
Unlimited Weeknights Monday to Friday 8pm to 7am
Unlimited Weekends Friday 8pm to Monday 7am
Call waiting, conference calling included
$35 Connection Fee Applicable.

*Includes System Access Fee, 911 Fee, Caller Ring Tunes, and Mobile Browser. **Applicable on 1, 2, or 3 year terms, and for the length of the term. Bonus available to new activations only.

I have Fido unlimited incoming calls, its very hard to beat.

+5$ and unlimited talk starting 5pm.

by the second billing as always.

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