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Hydarnes:

Let's get this straightened out.

You were asked to provide examples of ambient. You provided the following:

• Examples of what may be ambient trance
  
• Evidence that you indeed do not know what ambient is
  
• Continued argumentation in an effort to mask your ignorance
  

hahahahaha. i just gotta see how this one develops! keep goin hydarnes!

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Blank & Jones' Ambient works: Beyond Time, Desire, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by starglider Hydarnes: [quote]Let's get this straightened out.

Indeed, I'm anxious to see it resolved.

quote:

Examples of what may be ambient trance

I think I find your carefully evasive wording the most hilarious "what may be ambient".

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Evidence that you indeed do not know what ambient is

For the zillionth time, I intentionally listed ambient trance because I misunderstood System J to primarily want examples from that ambient genre. We have clearly established that this was a mistake on my part, so do I go to the stake over this?

Furthermore, what criteria for "ambient" is being adhered to here? If you disagree that ambient trance should be called "ambient trance" at all, then I'm afraid your quarrel is not with me. I'm merely going by official categorizations.

quote:

Continued argumentation in an effort to mask your ignorance

Again, this supposed ignorance only manifests itself in what you have falsely attributed to me.

quote:

Keep in mind that what we call the type of music you initially listed is not important, as long as we realize that it is not ambient. You have acknowledged that it is indeed not ambient; you called it ambient trance. If it is ambient trance then it cannot be ambient. This seems unambiguous now.

I'm afraid you're being overly stringent and narrow-minded over this whole thing. Ambient trance is CLEARLY a FORM of ambient music. If you can't accept this than I am quite afraid that you don't know what you're talking about.

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If this is still not clear, consider that ambient trance is not a subgenre of ambient.

Correct, but it is indisputably related. Again, there was a misunderstanding and lack of verification on my part. How many times do we have to review this before you start noticing that you're beating a dead horse?

quote:

You were asked to provide examples of a certain genre; you replied with examples of a wholly different one.

Again, I understood his "ambient" in the context of EDM, of which ambient trance would fall in that category. (Ambient house could have been just as easily picked, as System J did by mentioned The Orb)

quote:

Hence you have very neatly proven SYSTEM-J right. You did not know what ambient is. I suspect you still do not.

Again, I never claimed that he wasn't right. I just mistakenly provided him with a style of ambient music that he didn't want.

One question for you: Do you consider The Orb "ambient"? Please answer me straight .

On second thought, I'd rather not perpetuate this discussion. If you truly must revel in your ignorance, I will no longer attempt to prevent you from doing so.

I would, however, like you to answer my previous question. Have you heard anything from any of the half dozen ambient artists I mentioned in my second post in this thread?

quote:

Originally posted by starglider On second thought, I'd rather not perpetuate this discussion. If you truly must revel in your ignorance, I will no longer attempt to prevent you from doing so. I would, however, like you to answer my previous question. Have you heard anything from any of the half dozen ambient artists I mentioned in my second post in this thread?

Please just answer my question before taking the quick exit .

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes One question for you: Do you consider The Orb "ambient"? Please answer me straight .

Ambient Orb:



Incedentally, reading Hydarnes' initial arguements over the justification for studio produced singers sounds like he's pro-Ashley Simpson.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Ambient Orb: Incedentally, reading Hydarnes' initial arguements over the justification for studio produced singers sounds like he's pro-Ashley Simpson.

Is this supposed to be an attempt at answering my question to starglider?

Yes, I just adore ashley simpson.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Please just answer my question before taking the quick exit .

The Orb are mostly ambient, yes. They have done some tunes (Little Fluffy Clouds, for one) which seem to stray from that format.

Now answer my question.

quote:

Originally posted by starglider The Orb are mostly ambient, yes. They have done some tunes (Little Fluffy Clouds, for one) which seem to stray from that format. Now answer my question.

If this is the case, could you please explain why it is a misdemeanor to mention "ambient trance" under the broad title of "ambient", but perfectly accepted to menton Ambient House in this context? You do realize that The Orb is AMBIENT HOUSE, not strictly ambient, don't you? If I'm not mistaken, this is quite a double-standard on your part, and a most intriguing one at that.

Yes, I have heard some of the artists (albeit not all of them) that you mentioned.

Perhaps, but whereas The Orb has also done ambient, the artists you listed haven't. S-J was talking about pure ambient music, not hybrids. The Orb qualifies.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Perhaps, but whereas The Orb has also done ambient, the artists you listed haven't. S-J was talking about pure ambient music, not hybrids. The Orb qualifies.

Again, you're wrong. I provided Enya, who clearly makes some ambient tunes, your false statement nonetheless. You're obviously trying to find loopholes and it's making you look pretty silly.

I've never heard The Orb's strictly ambient songs. Could you list them for me?

The problem with your argument is, the songs you originally posted aren't even ambient trance. There's a reason I referred to them as "what may be ambient trance". It wasn't evasion because I had no argument. It was simply sidestepping an issue I felt wasn't relevant. But if you must...

Ambient trance is essentially ambient with a trance beat. "Chillout" mixes of trance tunes don't qualify. So whether or not you classify ambient trance or ambient house under ambient or under their respective genres isn't even important.

Sure:


Track List:
1. Valley
2. Plateau
3. Oxbow Lakes
4. Montagne D'or (Der Gute Berg)
5. White River Junction
6. Occidental
7. Slug Dub


Track List:
1. Pomme Fritz (Meat 'n' Veg)
2. More Gills Less Fishcakes
3. We're Pastie To Be Grill You
4. Bang'er 'N Chips
5. Alles Ist Schoen
6. His Immortal Logness

Others:
Towers Of Dub
Oobe


By the way, I fully agree that some of Enya's music is ambient, and will often argue as such. The tune Bodaecia (as well as a great deal on The Celts) is a perfect example. Just because her typical music doesn't appeal to the same crowd doesn't make it an entirely different genre, but because most of her releases are New Age, she get's labeled as such.

However, the main topic at hand was the trance producers you listed that have done a couple ambient tracks as well, not New Age artists. You listed a few trance producers that are almost predominantely trance (or euro trying to pass itself off as trance) but making a couple ambient tracks will not deter from the fact that most of the material they've done is trance, thus they will get branded as trance almost all the time. Oliver Lieb, for example, has done a fair bit of ambient (heck, the L.S.G. Into Deep album is pretty much an all ambient affair) but because most of his material is trance, he gets branded as a trance producer.

Similarily, because The Orb has done a fair bit more ambient than anything else, Dr. Patterson will get labeled an ambient producer more often than not.

quote:

Originally posted by starglider The problem with your argument is, the songs you originally posted aren't even ambient trance. There's a reason I referred to them as "what may be ambient trance". It wasn't evasion because I had no argument. It was simply sidestepping an issue I felt wasn't relevant. But if you must...

Your arguments (or lack thereof) are deteriorating by the minute. Now you have the effronterry to tell me that the clearly "AMBIENT TRANCE" songs I mentioned are not ambient trance at all? Again, I didn't call them ambient, I'm going by official standards. Why do you feel such a need to keep mutating your position?

quote:

Ambient trance is essentially ambient with a trance beat.

Umm..You're quite wrong. Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever. It can have a small, chillout beat, but this does not define ambient trance. There is plenty that contains no dance percussion whatsoever (Thrillseeker's remix of Saltwater, for example)

quote:

"Chillout" mixes of trance tunes don't qualify.

Chillout is usually a slowed down beat, not ambient, although it can contain ambient elements.

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So whether or not you classify ambient trance or ambient house under ambient or under their respective genres isn't even important.

Well, if this isn't a contention, then perhaps I missed what WAS your point in trying to "straighten me out"?

quote:

However, the main topic at hand was the trance producers you listed that have done a couple ambient tracks as well, not New Age artists. You listed a few trance producers that are almost predominantely trance (or euro trying to pass itself off as trance) but making a couple ambient tracks will not deter from the fact that most of the material they've done is trance, thus they will get branded as trance almost all the time. Oliver Lieb, for example, has done a fair bit of ambient (heck, the L.S.G. Into Deep album is pretty much an all ambient affair) but because most of his material is trance, he gets branded as a trance producer.

But if I remember correctly system J asked me to provide him with some ambient songs, not artists. (and again, I did misunderstand him)

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes But if I remember correctly system J asked me to provide him with some ambient songs, not artists. (and again, I did misunderstand him)

Ah, who can remember anyways, what with these topics getting as derailed as they do.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Umm..You're quite wrong. Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever. It can have a small, chillout beat, but this does not define ambient trance. There is plenty that contains no dance percussion whatsoever (Thrillseeker's remix of Saltwater, for example)

On what basis do you make this claim?

think it might help if you both provide some sources as to how you are defining 'ambient'...cuz if it's just a subjective argument of what one person thinks is ambient and another doesn't....well...this is going to go on forever.

made for one helluva interesting read though. i know shit-all about ambient so i'm not going to comment on that...but one piece of advice Hydarnes...it seems everytime you are defending yourself, you find the need to use bigger words...which aren't used quite correctly. case in point...

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Ambient trance is substantially synthesizers with no trance beat whatsoever.

think you mean to use the word essentially or basically or something....or else you should've said, "ambient trance is substantially made from synthesizers..." this may be why a lot of people are misunderstanding you...keep your arguments simple man regardless of that tho...that still doesn't really define what ambient or ambient trance is. a lot of music these days are synthesized...so not having a beat doesn't classify it as ambient in my opinion. but again, i dun listen to much ambient so wat do i know?

quote:

Originally posted by b i n k u n think it might help if you both provide some sources as to how you are defining 'ambient'...cuz if it's just a subjective argument of what one person thinks is ambient and another doesn't....well...this is going to go on forever. made for one helluva interesting read though. i know shit-all about ambient so i'm not going to comment on that...but one piece of advice Hydarnes...it seems everytime you are defending yourself, you find the need to use bigger words...which aren't used quite correctly. case in point... think you mean to use the word essentially or basically or something....or else you should've said, "ambient trance is substantially made from synthesizers..." this may be why a lot of people are misunderstanding you...keep your arguments simple man regardless of that tho...that still doesn't really define what ambient or ambient trance is. a lot of music these days are synthesized...so not having a beat doesn't classify it as ambient in my opinion. but again, i dun listen to much ambient so wat do i know?

Hey, thank you for your concern. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "find the need to use bigger words". FYI I'm a writer and I do some book editing on the side, therefore, I'm probably not too keen when it comes to differenciating between my "casual" and what other people do. It might also be helpful if you could perhaps point out an instance where you think I'm using a word inappropriately (I'm assuming that you are a major in English).

Either way, I'm hardly up for conducting a writing skills test on this board, as no one would probably care anyway. I can get kinda lazy sometimes--and I'm sure I could point out a multitude of grammaticall inaccuracies on my part in this thread alone.

Well, this is an interesting thread.

Ambient trance = ambient + a trance beat. Why is all trance not ambient trance? Frankly, most trance is too bouncy to be ambient. Let's not forget the meaning of the word ambient now.

Ambient techno = similar to ambient trance, except more melodically repetitive. Orbital - Halcyon + On + On, anyone?

Ambient = just ambient.

quote:

Originally posted by auranaut Ambient trance = ambient + a trance beat. Why is all trance not ambient trance? Frankly, most trance is too bouncy to be ambient. Let's not forget the meaning of the word ambient now. Ambient techno = similar to ambient trance, except more melodically repetitive. Orbital - Halcyon + On + On, anyone? Ambient = just ambient.

It'd be better to just stop pretending you're an authority on this matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes It'd be better to just stop pretending you're an authority on this matter.

Who's an authority then?

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