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-- What would you do?
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quote:

Originally posted by Orbax If thats true, why not PM

Well its a discussion topic as well isnt it. U clearly arent alone in your thinking

Sorry for defamation of character

quote:

Originally posted by Estella I don't know if asians have the ability to pull that role off, Crave!

Never heard of triads or yakuza eh???

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish yeah cos the Yakuza are just pussys......

Just admit it, damnit! That black, slick hair. The dark under the eyes, gawd damn the birth marks and that silent but deadly demeanor, black suits, melting italian/brooklyn accent, the turning of heads and their facade of oblivion.

WET

quote:

Originally posted by CraveTheRave Never heard of triads or yakuza eh???

I'll look into it

Edit* Results:

http://www.unc.edu/~wiltshir/yakuzahome.html

quote:

Originally posted by M@t Well its a discussion topic as well isnt it. U clearly arent alone in your thinking Sorry for defamation of character

I just really feel sorry for any female friends you have that might have some weird thought that if anything ever happens to them, you might be there for them. You should tell them that even if they get raped you wouldnt lift a finger. Im sure theyll respect your infinitely wise choice of non-involvment. You werent in the UN during Rwanda were you?

quote:

If a yakuza member displeases or severely disappoints his boss, the punishment is often yubizume, the amputation of the last joint of the little finger. A second offense will require the severing of the second joint of that finger, and additional offenses might require moving on to the next finger. A man knows that he must commit yubizume when his immediate superior gives him a knife and a string to staunch the bleeding. Words are not necessary.

>>LINK<<

That kinda thing.... and that is just what they do to themselfs

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax I just really feel sorry for any female friends you have that might have some weird thought that if anything ever happens to them, you might be there for them. You should tell them that even if they get raped you wouldnt lift a finger. Im sure theyll respect your infinitely wise choice of non-involvment. You werent in the UN during Rwanda were you?

You are now confusing protection and instigation of violence against a person. I would protect my gf to the death, but i would not seek to avenge an attack on her in the same way as you, as i have already stated.

quote:

Originally posted by M@t You are now confusing protection and instigation of violence against a person. I would protect my gf to the death, but i would not seek to avenge an attack on her in the same way as you, as i have already stated.

So your girlfriend comes stumbling home, with half her clothes torn off, and a bloody nose, and says "Someone raped me" and you say "sorry, I wasnt there, I cant do anything about it"

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax So your girlfriend comes stumbling home, with half her clothes torn off, and a bloody nose, and says "Someone raped me" and you say "sorry, I wasnt there, I cant do anything about it"

Don't worry about that, you can count on M@t to heroically run off to tell the authorities so that they can maybe-eventually reward, er, uh, punish the perpetrator with free room and board for a few years paid for in part by said female's tax dollars! That'll show 'em!

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax So your girlfriend comes stumbling home, with half her clothes torn off, and a bloody nose, and says "Someone raped me" and you say "sorry, I wasnt there, I cant do anything about it"

She wouldnt want me to go and kick seven shades of shit out of someone to get revenge. If i did that, our relationship would be over, and not just because i'd get put up at her majesty's service.

But clearly if im not there i cant protect her, and the police are much more qualified to be able to do something about it, so its not up to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Don't worry about that, you can count on M@t to heroically run off to tell the authorities so that they can maybe-eventually reward, er, uh, punish the perpetrator with free room and board for a few years paid for in part by said female's tax dollars! That'll show 'em!

dude, dont be ridiculous.


mat would call them on the phone.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Don't worry about that, you can count on M@t to heroically run off to tell the authorities so that they can maybe-eventually reward, er, uh, punish the perpetrator with free room and board for a few years paid for in part by said female's tax dollars! That'll show 'em!

You're cynicism of the judicial system is not the issue here.

quote:

Originally posted by M@t She wouldnt want me to go and kick seven shades of shit out of someone to get revenge. If i did that, our relationship would be over, and not just because i'd get put up at her majesty's service. But clearly if im not there i cant protect her, and the police are much more qualified to be able to do something about it, so its not up to me.

im sure that after being raped, all she would want would be a peaceful resolution to the matter and she would never think about it again because it had been resolved so perfectly, and the man learned his lesson.

Ok where would you draw the line here how close would someone have to be to you for you to go off and beat the person who wronged them up? Family, friend, co worker, person you kinda know.....

How much do you beat them up? A punch, till they hit the ground, keep going when they are on the ground, stop breathing?

The fact is you don't know you would be acting impulsively, not rationally.

And last time I checked rational thought is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by M@t You're cynicism of the judicial system is not the issue here.

Well in a situation such as this one has two options:

1. to take matters into one's own hands, or
2. to leave the matter of dealing with the perpetrator in the hands of someone else (typically the police/judicial system.)

In determining the comparative ethicality of these two options, it would seem to me the dependability of the "someone else" in option number two is rather central to the issue.

"...Chinese triads are reputed to be among the most dangerous of organized crime organizations..."

Link

That's my culture for ya.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax im sure that after being raped, all she would want would be a peaceful resolution to the matter and she would never think about it again because it had been resolved so perfectly, and the man learned his lesson.

Whether the man learns his lesson by imprisonment or via a thugs vindictive actions can hardly be guaranteed.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Well in a situation such as this one has two options: 1. to take matters into one's own hands, or 2. to leave the matter of dealing with the perpetrator in the hands of someone else (typically the police/judicial system.) In determining the comparative ethicality of these two options, it would seem to me the dependability of the "someone else" in option number two is rather central to the issue.

Well clearly the basis of my argument is that one (orbax) shouldnt have the need for two options, because he shouldnt have it in his mindset to commit such an act. The fact that he might believe the judicial system incapable of exacting a suitable revenge for him is not the matter here

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Well in a situation such as this one has two options: 1. to take matters into one's own hands, or 2. to leave the matter of dealing with the perpetrator in the hands of someone else (typically the police/judicial system.) In determining the comparative ethicality of these two options, it would seem to me the dependability of the "someone else" in option number two is rather central to the issue.

Yes, but you have to realise that in taking option 1 you are stepping outwith the laws of the nation your a citizen of and as such you can prosecuted yourself.

And in the "highly rational" state you are in you can assess how much jail time you are going to get for the "exact set of actions" you are going to carry out upon this person?

Slylee,
I know your thread has been jacked and sorry for contributing to that. But I think the majority of the opinions is that you are extremely generous for helping this girl out, but you should get to know her better first before you take her in, etc. I still say you better make sure she doesn't go back to him if you're doing all this for her.

Hope it all turns out well.
Terry

Orbs, I thought you were a Christian?

You don't practice what you preach?

In a civilized society, you must allow the system to execute justice. If you decide to take justice into your own hands, you are not only thwarting the system, you are playing God. What right do you have to play God? God does not grant you that right. You are not all knowing. You are not the judge of man.

Christians believe that in the end, all answer to God. Your rapist will stand before your God and answer for his actions.

I agree with M@t and Dervs, here. Arbitch Arbiter, you surprise me.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence Arbitch Arbiter, you surprise me.

Oh? Why's that?

quote:

In a civilized society, you must allow the system to execute justice. If you decide to take justice into your own hands, you are not only thwarting the system, you are playing God. What right do you have to play God? God does not grant you that right. You are not all knowing. You are not the judge of man.

In a civilized society, rape and similar crimes wouldn't happen to begin with. Civilization is a myth, a type of moral-intellecutal masturbation which we perpetuate as a means to avoid dealing with the profound impotence of our feeble institutions and the cataclysmic failure that is our society.

That aside: the merit of allowing the "system" to execute justice necessarily depents upon the merit of the system itself. If the system is an evil, and I believe it is, then you do good by thwarting it.

And given that I am the Arbiter, the "judge of man," it should come as no surprise that I, of all people, would be the one willing to say: "Yes! I will act! Perfect I am not, but I will not stand aside and leave those matters most important in the hands of imbeciles and demagogues. I will do what I believe is right, and to hell with the consequences!"

That is, after all, the only type of genuine morality one can find in this world: to be true to one's convictions. "Society," "civilization," the "system" - these are shallow, empty idols no less so than "God."

I appreciate what you are saying Arbiter, but wouldn't you say that we should strive to be as civilised as possible. The systems we've formed are there to try an support that. If you want to opt out of them then leave wherever you are because you don't agree with the princibles of the place.

Unless of course you would prefer to live in that socity rather than anarcy which you seem to be advocating.

(not to get away from the origonal point or over complicate things ofcourse )

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Oh? Why's that? In a civilized society, rape and similar crimes wouldn't happen to begin with.

This is inaccurate. Wrongs occur in civilized and in uncivilized societies. Within every society, there are people who do wrong.

quote:

Civilization is a myth, a type of moral-intellecutal masturbation which we perpetuate as a means to avoid dealing with the profound impotence of our feeble institutions and the cataclysmic failure that is our society. That aside: the merit of allowing the "system" to execute justice necessarily depents upon the merit of the system itself. If the system is an evil, and I believe it is, then you do good by thwarting it.

You live in a country where, if the system is evil or faulty, you can correct it. You live in one of the few societies that empowers individuals with this ability.

quote:

And given that I am the Arbiter, the "judge of man," it should come as no surprise that I, of all people, would be the one willing to say: "Yes! I will act! Perfect I am not, but I will not stand aside and leave those matters most important in the hands of imbeciles and demagogues. I will do what I believe is right, and to hell with the consequences!"

Yes, as Dervish said this is your choice. If you are willing to deal with the consequences of your actions you can do what you want.

quote:

That is, after all, the only type of genuine morality one can find in this world: to be true to one's convictions. "Society," "civilization," the "system" - these are shallow, empty idols no less so than "God."

It is important to be true to your self and to be true to your convictions. But to play God or to assume the role of an all knowing entity? No.

Think of all the convicted rapists and murderers in your country who are now being released because DNA tests proved that they weren't the actual rapist, they weren't the actual murderer. Without the system, you or Orbs would have executed justice against these people...?

I say to err is human. Even victims can err.

And Arbits, I can't argue with you. You know that. So this will be my last post in this thread. I was surprised because to me, you usually are so right and in my opinion, on this one, you are wrong. But, eh, I'm often wrong. So....

^ Exactly, I mean what if "the victim" has lied (entirely possible it actually happens quite alot) you've beaten up (maybe killed?) an innocent person, who is to blame the lying victim or you....

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