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-- oh my god
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quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 the damn point is to get more LAND, LAND LAND LAND... what do they profit from? land it has nothing to do with anything else. hey look over there, we dont own it lets take it. vs hrm this here in the bible says we must go fight them, even though we dont really want to. damn it.

I agree with you, the grand scheme of things was to get land. It's just that the Pope who started the crusades used religion to get people riled up and believe that they must go fight in the name of God.

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Originally posted by tranceDJ Dude, one sentence in that whole paragraph pertains to "land", the rest is about religion (i.e. "soldiers of christ")...I didn't say religion was the only reason for the crusades, but it is the main one. Even the land they were trying to "recapture" is referred to as "the holy land."

You both need to remember that there were multiple cursades that were separated by hundreds of years. The first cursades were mainly fought by the British, French and Germans in order to curry the favour of the Pope. The elites in all of these countries were engaged in internal power struggles and they needed the support of the church in order to either maintain or seize power. This is particullarly true of Richard 1 of Britain who was fighting with several powerful barrons who were challenging his claim to the crown.

The second set of cursades were mainly fought by peoples who were trying to amass power and fortune by recovering religious artifacts such as the Holy Grail (which was most likely not a cup but Mary Magdaline.... as the word Grail really means receiver of blood and thus could just as easily be the woman Jesus knocked up as the cup used to catch his blood... scripture refers to the Grail being at the foot of the cross... Mary was at the foot of the cross there is no mention of a cup), the spear, the true cross, etc.

The Third crusade was essentially a war to keep the muslims out of Europe.

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Originally posted by NiteMer Those things cannot be justified based on scripture

Everything can be justified by scripture... if you isolate individual passages from the bible you can find support for damn near anything.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceDJ I agree with you, the grand scheme of things was to get land. It's just that the Pope who started the crusades used religion to get people riled up and believe that they must go fight in the name of God.

Yea im not saying they didn't. But thats from who ever started the wars mouth, its not comming from a book or god or anything.

It originally came from 10 guys in a meeting that decided they needed bigger houses, and to use religion as an excuse .

quote:

Originally posted by ierxium This is simple. The religious people have the same rights as the non-religious of voicing their beliefs. They both do no harm with that. Some people actually manage to walk away when this voicing begins. It�s not that hard. Believing that you believe in a higher power is the same as believing that you don�t believe in it, whatever that �higher power� happens to be or not be. What is absurd, don�t quote me on any of this, is the fact that both sides defend something that they�re not completely informed about. And that will never change.

You hit it right on the head. So true, so true.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Everything can be justified by scripture... if you isolate individual passages from the bible you can find support for damn near anything.

Okay. Given context, you can't justify it with scripture. Now you're arguing semantics with me.

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Originally posted by NiteMer You are right, religion may have influenced the crusades, but God did not. I don't consider myself religious. Religious people go to Church and do things for tradition sake.

It was more politics with a religious face (it seems to be that way with a lot of wars these days, doesn't it?) that influenced the Crusades, and while it was the Popes of the time that called people to battle, most of the Crusaders were anything but "holy." That actually was the match thrown into the powder keg, that caused the Great Schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches, because Constantinople was plundered en route. And this was four hundred or so years before the fall of the Byzantine Empire.

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I believe that I have a relationship with God, based on my faith in him. Religion, as a bureaucracy, has caused a lot of problems (indulgences, the crusades, and many religious wars), but that can't be blamed on God, or the bible. Those things cannot be justified based on scripture, and, therefore, does not represent God's will.

My pastor would like you so much.

Back to the original point of this thread. It is Biblical to worry when someone doesn't accept Christ. It is NOT Biblical to shove Christ in someone's face. That's where people like Jerry Falwell miss the point.

I went to Church when I was little because my grandmother would take me. Then I stopped going for a while. Then I started going again by my own volition. I never felt it was forced on me, something my dad did feel. Because trying to force anything on someone will only turn someone away from that thing. Whether it be belief, sex, drugs, alcohol, theories, whatever. My mother sometimes tries to force her opinions on me. That goes nowhere, obviously

So if your mother starts ordering your uncle around, she's in the wrong.

k i only read the first page...but my grandparents thought/said the same thing of my brother and me when my parents brought us up in a Unitarian church (if you don't know what that is i'll explain it...most people haven't heard of it). when i was in junior high, i had a lot of christian friends who tried to convert me (hello...i live in texas) and i ended up being pretty involved with a methodist church for about 3 years. when i hit high school, i started researching religions, philosophy, etc to try and find my true beliefs. turns out, i'm nothing! religion isn't important to me at all...it's something i see as a way to make people less afraid of dying...i think christianity, judaism, etc...in some future society will be regarded the way we regard greek mythology (keep in mind, that WAS the greek's religion). i was raised studying and gathering my own ideas from all different types of religions, and i was a relatively faithful methodist for about 3 years...and i still formed my own opinions. since i was brought up in an open-minded church, none of the brainwashing/fear tactics could be imposed on me like some of my friends. i'm not saying all religions brainwash...but some of the churches down here (mostly baptist) are freaking insane. neither of my parents are religious, really, but that didn't stop me from wanting to explore and develop my own sense of...a connection to "god" or what-have-you. granted, i ended up...well...if you have to label it i'd call it agnostic, but that doesn't mean this kid won't be able to form his own opinions about god and the spiritual world.

k that was really long, but hopefully i made good points? use me as an example if you want jamie haha. hopefully your mom can be a little open minded about this. it's frustrating when someone you love seems clouded by their faith...and judges others unfairly. my brother was a hardcore baptist for a good 5 years, i can relate. he told my mom she was going to hell... (glad he got over that!)

^Heh, I'm Baptist , but I have the same take on it as Billy Graham... scare tactics like the "you're going to hell" line are not Biblical. Besides, is doing that loving the person (loving people is VERY Biblical)? NO.

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Originally posted by DC76 ^Heh, I'm Baptist , but I have the same take on it as Billy Graham... scare tactics like the "you're going to hell" line are not Biblical. Besides, is doing that loving the person (loving people is VERY Biblical)? NO.

i'm talking texas SOUTHERN baptists. no offense meant to nonevangelistic, nice baptists

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Originally posted by prolikewhoa i'm talking texas SOUTHERN baptists. no offense meant to nonevangelistic, nice baptists

None taken

It isn't like the "nice" Baptists aren't evangelists, just that they preach about the love and forgiveness of Christ (Biblical, how Billy Graham rolls) as opposed to sitting behind a desk and making ludicrous statements with no Biblical truth behind them (like Mr. Falwell) and spread hatred and malice.

My pastor, while critical of governments for bowing to opinion polls on certain issues, is also very critical of those hardcore types who go around hating on people instead of just actions.

Case in point: I do not hate the girl who accused me of pedophilia when I was in Grade 12 (she was in Gr. 9), but I hate what she did. But I've forgiven her for it.

quote:

Originally posted by DC76 None taken It isn't like the "nice" Baptists aren't evangelists, just that they preach about the love and forgiveness of Christ (Biblical, how Billy Graham rolls) as opposed to sitting behind a desk and making ludicrous statements with no Biblical truth behind them (like Mr. Falwell) and spread hatred and malice. My pastor, while critical of governments for bowing to opinion polls on certain issues, is also very critical of those hardcore types who go around hating on people instead of just actions. Case in point: I do not hate the girl who accused me of pedophilia when I was in Grade 12 (she was in Gr. 9), but I hate what she did. But I've forgiven her for it.

i don't agree with evangelism, but at least you're doing it in a positive way.

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Originally posted by DC76 Case in point: I do not hate the girl who accused me of pedophilia when I was in Grade 12 (she was in Gr. 9), but I hate what she did. But I've forgiven her for it.

Lol you'd be the youngest paedophile ever

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Originally posted by prolikewhoa i don't agree with evangelism, but at least you're doing it in a positive way.

I'm not against evangelism, when people want to hear it, but I'm against scare tactics and pressure. Pressuring someone never changes their opinion, and it's useless. More often turns people off than anything. But there's nothing wrong with discussing your beliefs with someone else, that is interested in discussing/debating. It's all in the engine, not the concept.

Re: oh my god

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee my f'n mother..i swear. i mean am i right or am i right? god, she fucking thinks everyone in the world has to see things her way or they're wrong.

you need a fucking bitchslap to learn how to talk about your mother right.

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Originally posted by NiteMer I'm not against evangelism, when people want to hear it, but I'm against scare tactics and pressure. Pressuring someone never changes their opinion, and it's useless. More often turns people off than anything. But there's nothing wrong with discussing your beliefs with someone else, that is interested in discussing/debating. It's all in the engine, not the concept.

maybe it's the type of evangelism i've been exposed to...b/c i don't consider someone asking about someone's faith and then that person telling them about it evangelism. i don't consider an invited discussion evangelism. evangelism to me is going out of your way to educate others about your faith, whether they want to hear it or not. i've always had a bad stigma attached to it, because in my view, evangelists are close-minded to other people's beliefs, and approach them as if that person is wrong about everything their religion stands for. i dunno. i've probably just been exposed to it in a negative light... but yes, i really enjoy discussion and debate as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Pink oh yeah and i think religion is fukin STUPID stupidest thing ever created.

then u must think society working as a team is stupid. or control of the massess is stupid too.

thats exactly what religion was made to do. control the massess. and i for one dont think its a bad thing. we need to be controlled.


cept for me. KING KONG AINT GOT SHIT ON ME !

quote:

Originally posted by prolikewhoa maybe it's the type of evangelism i've been exposed to...b/c i don't consider someone asking about someone's faith and then that person telling them about it evangelism. i don't consider an invited discussion evangelism. evangelism to me is going out of your way to educate others about your faith, whether they want to hear it or not. i've always had a bad stigma attached to it, because in my view, evangelists are close-minded to other people's beliefs, and approach them as if that person is wrong about everything their religion stands for. i dunno. i've probably just been exposed to it in a negative light... but yes, i really enjoy discussion and debate as well.

Yeah. I can understand your peeve, since you've dealt with a lot of Southern Baptists. While some don't use those methods, there's a stigma to that branch of Christianity and it's "evangelism". My brother is a missionary, in Nigeria, and, I can assure you, he doesn't pressure/scare people into believing. He's a very warm, giving man that finds opportunities to share his faith, without alienating people.

quote:

Originally posted by NiteMer Yeah. I can understand your peeve, since you've dealt with a lot of Southern Baptists. While some don't use those methods, there's a stigma to that branch of Christianity and it's "evangelism". My brother is a missionary, in Nigeria, and, I can assure you, he doesn't pressure/scare people into believing. He's a very warm, giving man that finds opportunities to share his faith, without alienating people.

yeah, i can respect that. i have a lot of respect for the people who use their faith to make the world a better place. i still maintain my view of religion, but as long as you use your faith to promote positive actions/feelings, i have the upmost respect for you.

[edit] haha i said respect a lot.

People are people, religion doesnt make them any stupider than they wouldnt have been without it its just an easier outlet.

Its like how fads sweep through middle and highschools. Its not that the fads have intrinsic value, its giving them an outlet for all sorts of teenage bullshit.

The only reason shes probably freakin out is that she considers "atheists" to have dens of iniquity where he probably thinks that "religious" people are uptight and dont let your kid have any fun or grow up


again, people are people

so i guess the real question is........where does my penis fit into the cosmic scheme of things?

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax again, peopel are people

not really some ppl r aliens

imagine an infinite universe constantly expanding at a rate of 15,000 kilometers per parsec per parsec. and then something measured in inches being compared to that. Every second, your dick is thousands of times smaller than its ever been before.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax imagine an infinite universe constantly expanding at a rate of 15,000 kilometers per parsec per parsec. and then something measured in inches being compared to that. Every second, your dick is thousands of times smaller than its ever been before.

ah but thats only true if we take into consideration that the universe is infinitely expanding.

another theory is that it's expanded, and now it's coming back together (or will at some point) I think it was called the rubber band theory

so, my dick is a thousand times LONGER than its ever been before

NOTE: this is specifically only about MY dick. Not yours or anyone elses. n00blAR!


b0p!

Re: Re: oh my god

quote:

Originally posted by Jocker you need a fucking bitchslap to learn how to talk about your mother right.

try reading past the 1st post buddy...

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