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There's no such thing as electro trance.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles There's no such thing as electro trance.

Nobody likes you.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Nobody likes you.

No he's right. Did you learn anything from this thread? If not read it over.

Hehe. I love reading some of these old 'new genre!' debate threads. It's fascinating to see whom the passage of time proved right.

clearly its not a genre yet because not enough people are playing the stuff that could be classified as electro and trance (electro-trance).......when enough people jump on board to ferry corsten's (or whoever else is playing wat some of these people are calling electrotrance) realitively new sound which is different to trance but still not quite electro then its going to have to be defined somehow. electrotrance would be the name of it i guess, i think alot of people here just hate all this new electrohouse stuff that they dont want to admit that trance is having its own sort of version of it.

because people love to make assumptions about my taste in music i should note that i hate "electrotrance" even though it doesnt really exist yet and i also hate electrohouse

I only read the first and last pages, but it from that it seems, everything in the middle is mostly the same: people dont think electro-trance is a genre. I would partly agree with that, but from my perspective (which is not vast or as knowledgable as a lot of you guys) I would say electro trance is more of a trend right now.

Two tracks that I would consider electrotrance (not necessarily ferry's LEF style though) are AvB - This world is watching me and Alex MORPH & Rank 1 - Life less Ordinary, and both of these tracks reached the top 20 in Armin's ASOT. I have only been really passionate about EDM music for less than a year, so I'm not too sure about this, but I would guess that that is 2 more electro-trance songs in the top 20 than last year or any other year.

I just wanted to show my perspective on this whole issue. Seems everyone is thinking in terms of black and white, with no grey area in between. So, electrotrance I guess I would say is a trendy style that has popped up recently. I don't think its been around long enough yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong though) to be called a genre yet, but it could possibly in the future.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Nobody likes you.

Okay. There's still no such thing as electro-trance.

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Originally posted by kingklubz AvB - This world is watching me

That's vocal trance with a buzzing synth. Having a buzzing synth doesn't automatically make a track "electro," just like having a 303 line doesn't automatically make a song "acid house."

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Alex MORPH & Rank 1 - Life less Ordinary

House.

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Originally posted by kingklubz I don't think its been around long enough yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong though) to be called a genre yet, but it could possibly in the future.

well, if ibiza trance became a subgenre, i don't see why electro trance couldn't become one

exactly

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That's vocal trance with a buzzing synth. Having a buzzing synth doesn't automatically make a track "electro," just like having a 303 line doesn't automatically make a song "acid house."

According to your criteria maybe. According to his own subjective criteria it is though. Since there are no objective "genre" classification guides you are both right. Genres are extremely ill-defined. Since "electro's" definition is extremely vague, it can easily be assigned to a track.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles House.

Dude, that's not house.

And yes, electro-trance exists. Some artists are using the name already. Have a look http://www.discogs.com/release/851901

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Originally posted by sljiva well, if ibiza trance became a subgenre, i don't see why electro trance couldn't become one

would this not be belearic trance? or are we going into another sub genre here?

Apeing one element (buzzing synths) of another style doesn't mean that a new genre has to be spawned. Trance with an organ isn't "trance church music," it's just trance with an organ. Prog house with a guitar isn't "rock prog house," it's just prog house with a guitar.

But yeah, it is "all subjective" in the end, so let's just call everything "rap."

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Originally posted by Push2005 Dude, that's not house.

What would you call it? It has that basic "chorus - verse" structure, and it's certainly not trance.

And it's definitely not electro.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles And it's definitely not electro.

Electrohouse doesn't have anything in common with the real electro from back in the days, yet it's name is accepted.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Apeing one element (buzzing synths) of another style doesn't mean that a new genre has to be spawned. Trance with an organ isn't "trance church music," it's just trance with an organ. Prog house with a guitar isn't "rock prog house," it's just prog house with a guitar.

In the end of the day its all EDM. It is all made in the same way, using similar synths and stuff. If its good its good. Why fight so hard about what constitutes a specific genre? Is it something like a teenage fan-boy thing? "the trance-cyber-kids", "the electro-trenddies" etc. etc. etc.? I find it a bit stupid.

Nope, just about being clear about terms.

Nobody here would call trance "rap" or rap "trance," because they're not the same thing, even though they're both types of EDM and are both made with a sequencer, drum samples / drum machines, synths, and samplers.

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Originally posted by PETRAN In the end of the day its all EDM. It is all made in the same way, using similar synths and stuff. If its good its good. Why fight so hard about what constitutes a specific genre? Is it something like a teenage fan-boy thing? "the trance-cyber-kids", "the electro-trenddies" etc. etc. etc.? I find it a bit stupid.

"What genre do you like?"
"Electro."
"Oh, like Fedde Le Grand?"
"Oh fuck no! Like Mantronix!"

Hence, genre splits are born.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Nobody here would call trance "rap" or rap "trance," because they're not the same thing, even though they're both types of EDM and are both made with a sequencer, drum samples / drum machines, synths, and samplers.

I don't consider rap to be part of EDM lol.(a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s) Anyway, i didn't say that we should drop all genre classifications. Its ok to have the basic distinctions e.g. house, techno, trance, they are usefull for guidance thats true. It is the extensive SUB-genre classification that is stupid and useless e.g. epic trance, electro house, porn-techno. Such extensive classifications do nothing more then stereotype music and artists and limit one's musical taste (especially some highly conforming people who usually want to be "part" of, or strictly belong to a movement or group.)

It would be better to drop such extensive sub-genre classifications all together. The majority of EDM is extremely identical if you look at the basic structure. There is a simple 4/4 rhtyhm, a hooky lead-line, a looped bass...its the sounds and the way they are used that causes the illusion that there are "strict" and "sharp" differences. A better way to look at thinks is to see all music as a continuum, where bad music lies at one end and good at the other. The basic classifications can be used as guides, but not to the point to influence one's musical taste. This is my opinion anyway.

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Originally posted by PETRAN a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s

oh god...

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Originally posted by PETRAN I don't consider rap to be part of EDM lol.(a reason is that rap was existing years before the term EDM was inveneted somewhere in the 90s)

Rap, especially rap from the '80s onward, is electronic music made to be played out in clubs and for people to dance to. Electronic music made for people to dance to is EDM.

Anyway, stuff you might consider "EDM" -- house, garage, techno -- was already around in the early to mid '80s and was being played out in clubs. It was not "invented somewhere in the '90s."

The term "EDM" may not have been -- I don't really know or care -- but what does that matter? The word "Renaissance" wasn't used to refer to Michelangelo's works when they were made, but we still use it to refer to them now.

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Anyway, i didn't say that we should drop all genre classifications. Its ok to have the basic distinctions e.g. house, techno, trance, they are usefull for guidance thats true.

So are classifications like "prog trance" and "goa trance." People who like one of those genres many times won't like the other, and sometimes they'll even make fun of it, even though they both listen to types of trance.

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A better way to look at thinks is to see all music as a continuum, where bad music lies at one end and good at the other.

Taxonomy and aesthetic judgment are two different things.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Anyway, stuff you might consider "EDM" -- house, garage, techno -- was already around in the early to mid '80s and was being played out in clubs. It was not invented "somewhere in the '90s."

Yes, genres such as house were originated in the mid-80s, but the term "EDM" was used much later to collectively describe house, techno, trance etc. etc. Rap was made with electronic equipment but i consider it to be different then EDM e e.g. rap was not made strictly for dancing, was usually much slower, it had extensive vocals etc. etc. etc. i don't know if a rapper considers himself to play "EDM" music. Anyway, as it was said before its down to subjectivity and how everyone catgorises things.

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So are classifications like "prog trance" and "goa trance." People who like one of those genres many times won't like the other, and sometimes they'll even make fun of it, even though they both listen to types of trance.

These classifications are useless in my opinion and unfortunately few music lovers behave in the nice and open-minded ways you describe. I think that this over-extensive clasification can be damaging, not only for the listener but for the musician as well. Since genres come to "represent" different values, musicians would tend to strictly play the sounds of the sub-genre that they are assigned to. Furthermore they will refuse to be musically open to other genres, especially in the case that these other genres are considered inferior to the genre which the specific artist is assigned to. Imagine now that the distinctions "prog", "psy" and "epic" trance edidn't exist at all. How much more varied sounds would we get without the "political orientations" that govern these genres?

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Taxonomy and aesthetic judgment are two different things.

Nop they are not. In contrast to the animal kingdom, in the case of music, where in the end of the day its very nature is embodied in aesthetic acoustics (thats its only function) taxonomy can directly influence aesthetic judgement. In the case of music, taxonomy can even shape aesthetic judgement. As a result it can become dangerous. Its better to leave the over-extensive classification for science then. Art is there to be free, not to be constrained.

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