TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- What to do with Iran?
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 »

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard What one has to live for is less important to this discussion then what one has to die for. Your thinking is flawed. You believe that palestinians are willing to kill themselves because they have nothing, this is incorrect, they are killing themselves because the believe their goal to be the worth any sacrafice. If the leadership of Iran believes that Isreal must be destroyed at all costs including the destruction of their own country then the threat of mutually assured destruction means very little. It all comes down to conviction. If the conviction to destroy Isreal is strong enough then Iran will manufacture the means and exercise those means regardless of consequence. It would be a suicide attack on a large scale.

Iran needs the will and acceptance of 70 million people in order to do something that drastic. I dont think that they will get it seeing many hate thier own government.

Its all rhetoric. Hes trying to make a name for himself in the muslim world by pleasing thier hate.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Iran needs the will and acceptance of 70 million people in order to do something that drastic. I dont think that they will get it seeing many hate thier own government. Its all rhetoric. Hes trying to make a name for himself in the muslim world by pleasing thier hate.

The people of the country need not approve of this for it to happen. If we're talking a nuclear strike then only the people charged with making that decision need be on board. Have you ever heard of a country holding a referendum on whether or not to bomb someone? Weak aregument.

BTW, I agree that it's likely just rhetoric, however, it is not completely beyond reason to apply some extra caution. Leaders of states have brough horrible disaster to their people for personal causes before.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Iran needs the will and acceptance of 70 million people in order to do something that drastic. I dont think that they will get it seeing many hate thier own government.

Hitler did whatever he wanted once he had power, and killed anyone who disagreed. I think Ahmedajinbad ( if I spelled his name right ) would do the same. As for Hitler, he did commit national suicide. Germany was in ruins after World War 2 and Hitler killed himself so he would not have to live with the consequences of what he created.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King palestinians have nothing to live for. No economy, unemployment and constant occupation byt he 4th most powerful miliatry in the world.

And that's what they deserve for being a terrorist state. If their youth spent as much effort trying to educate themselves, as in learning how to blow themselves up in public places then Palestine would be a wealthy, respectable state or country with a viable economy.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Only CNN and Fox is poor. All other chanels are pretty ok to get your info from.

I wouldn't get any information from Pat Robertsons 700 Club. He edits all his news stories so they support his own personal political views which is almost as twisted as the Terrorists in the Middle East. It seems that Pat Robertson is actually hoping for a holy war because it would fit his views on the Book of Revelations.

I usually get most of my world news from the BBC.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Oh. What should people watch then? Cause if Fox and Al Jazeera or Al Arabia or CNN or BBC or all just as bad then where to get info from?

Trust the internet, it never lies!

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's And that's what they deserve for being a terrorist state. If their youth spent as much effort trying to educate themselves, as in learning how to blow themselves up in public places then Palestine would be a wealthy, respectable state or country with a viable economy.

Whilst I agree the youth need the education, I lay the blame at the feet of the adults and not the youth. The young children are being brainwashed from the early age to support the cause and become a martyr. They are taught this is a good thing. That is the problem.

By the way, BBC doco last year about the suicide bomber said the first S.B. was a 13 yr old from Iran who threw himself under an Iraqi tank with a grenade. he is buried in the centre of some huge cemetary and is a hero in Iran.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard The people of the country need not approve of this for it to happen. If we're talking a nuclear strike then only the people charged with making that decision need be on board. Have you ever heard of a country holding a referendum on whether or not to bomb someone? Weak aregument. BTW, I agree that it's likely just rhetoric, however, it is not completely beyond reason to apply some extra caution. Leaders of states have brough horrible disaster to their people for personal causes before.

Do not underestimate the actual fear the Iranian government has about its democratic-minded youth that make up 70% of the population.

The iranian government cannot simply do what it wants.

If you we were talking about the North Korean government lead by that lunatic, thats another story.

quote:

Originally posted by Shamen DJ's And that's what they deserve for being a terrorist state. If their youth spent as much effort trying to educate themselves, as in learning how to blow themselves up in public places then Palestine would be a wealthy, respectable state or country with a viable economy.

They deserve it? Do ISraeli's deserve to be blown up for voting a leader in that has started the second Intifada???

Palestine isnt a state... its a chaotic suffering mess that israel is responsible for.

How are palestinians supposed to educate themselves when these people CANT EVEN GO TO SCHOOL or AFFORD TO LIVE.

Palestine had a functioning economy until israel destroyed it. Yes... they came in with their american made weapons and literally blew up the place... including their airport.

- militarily there is no good option, even if we're not bogged down in Iraq
- we hurt ourselves by being dependent on foreign oil
- we hurt ourselves by having our forces completely committed in Iraq.

The Russian offer to enrich uranium for them is promising. However, we have to keep the pressure on Iran, making it seem that we're not actually keen on that idea. Still, this is the best option at the moment.

In absence of that....

1. Stall, stall, stall. Make sure they don't start the uranium enrichment process and kick out the inspectors. Even if all of this is an exercize in futility it is still a time-consuming exercise in futility. Keep coming up with excuses to talk or talk later or propose this or that. We don't have a millitary option right now b/c all our forces are bogged down in Iraq. That will probably cease to be true three years from now.

Stalling should hopefully allow us to....
2. have time to get the hell out of Iraq. The mullahs will never believe that we might have a military option. Their president will keep giving us the finger until he thinks we have a clear, swift military option.


3. They still have a technological leap or two in order to actually process weapons grade material. Float around faulty designs for achieving this. If they bite then that should buy us some time.

4. If we already have the connections to do so, start talks with the ethnic minority/dissident groups within Iran. There are large minorties in the northwest who would cause trouble for Tehran if they all of a sudden decided to become unruly. Should a military confrontation appear immanent, we will need them to cause trouble.

5. Enter talks with the Chinese and Russia to renegotiate their oil contracts with Iran. The Iranians are using oil as leverage in case they're referred to the Security Council. Yes, oil doubling in price would hurt us, but they might think twice about doing that if the economic damage inflicted on their economy outlasts any embargo. This might mean we have to play nice with Venezuela or impose some rather 'draconian' laws here in teh US to make the price of oil drop, but then again we should be doing that anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Trust the internet, it never lies!

worst and most unreliable news and information comes from the internet...who woulda guessed

I wonder what would happen if Iran did build a nuke, aimed it at Israel, and missed and hit Palestine instead?

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e I wonder what would happen if Iran did build a nuke, aimed it at Israel, and missed and hit Palestine instead?

Will most likely cause Iran to throw up a excuse in the air like America...

"...Oh, Oh.. umm, but they had weapons, you see ... i think"

From Jerusalem Newswire:

quote:

Iran to West: Remove Israel, or we will Ahmadinejad says time has come for world to bow to Allah If the West fails to peacefully remove the �Zionist entity� from the Middle East, the �Palestinians� and their Islamic allies will do so through violent fury, warned Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a mass demonstration in Tehran Saturday. Addressing the hundreds of thousands who turned out to mark the 27th anniversary of Iran's �Islamic Revolution,� the virulent leader, as reported by WorldNetDaily, said regarding Israel: �We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them. Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations.� Islam dictates that formerly-Muslim dominated lands cannot revert to permanent non-Muslim control. It is this cornerstone of their faith that drives the murderous anti-Israel policies of Hamas and most of the Jewish state's Middle East neighbors. But the threat is not only to Israel and other non-Muslim nations that have regained their sovereignty. Reconquering them is only the first step. According to the Muslim faith, jihad must be waged until the entire world is under the thumb of Islam. Ahmadinejad declared that now is the time for the West to bow to this reality and submit to Allah: �On the anniversary of the victory of the Islamic Revolution, the Iranian nation, numbering in the millions, calls upon those governments to worship Allah.� Similar sentiment was expressed by Iran's Hamas allies in the Palestinian Authority last week. Speaking at a Damascus mosque on February 3, overall Hamas political leader Khaled Mashal declared: "We say to this West... By Allah, you will be defeated... Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact.�

So what do you say - should we take this f*cker out, or continue condemning cartoons with no sense of shame?

Look, this is coming from the point of view of a Iranian, who not being Muslims actually see's their wrong doings in a better perspective.

I don't think many of the actual Iranian residents approve of this new presidents ways at all in the first place, and i strongly believe this election was rigged.

For the amount of persians i've spoken too about this new presidents ideas and decisions, they all disapprove.

We have mullahs in control of Iran, who worship a Arab prophet, and since Iran is not a Arab nation, it just makes it even funnier. If America is going to attack Iran, be sure this Iran is rid of Arabic control.

I don't believe when Iran was under it's own allegience it ever caused any threats to any other nations. But when Ayotollah was brought in by the one and only America, then thats when things started going sour.

Now I'm sure everyone knows that Ayotollah was a mullah and the same people are behind the President of Iran telling him what to do like the Masons with USA.

I don't believe Iran is a bad nation, it has it's ups and downs like any other nation but i don't think the civilians should be punished for the acts of the fanatical president.

Now remember, the civilians of Iran cannot say anything bad about this the mullahs ever, or you will be killed. Now, with that situation in mind, do you actually believe the people of Iran will ever get a fair choice to choose who runs Iran? I don't think so.

Until these Arabic followers are kicked out of Iran, it will never be restored to its beauty.

An example of how Iran was when under it's own kind of people is to look at when the Shah Reza was in control, here is a picture:



Now compare this to the Arabic control of Iran now:



Thats the difference between Iran decisions and Arabic decisions.

^^^^^
I really feel sorry for the people of Iran.
I can totally believe the people are being repressed; Iran used to be quite a tourist haven, even for Americans at one point in time.

I had no idea Iran wasn't Arabic??
I'm not sure I understand entirely though. Are you refering to the language or it's culture?
Honestly, I don't know a lot about Iranian history as compared to it's neighbors...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I had no idea Iran wasn't Arabic?? I'm not sure I understand entirely though. Are you refering to the language or it's culture? Honestly, I don't know a lot about Iranian history as compared to it's neighbors...

Yeah Iran is Persian, not Arabic.

The Language itself is Farsi, it has a much more latin feel to it than Arabic. Farsi is much more smoother in the talking.

Irans History runs pretty long actually, here is just the small of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iran

I found this section quite interesting just showing what it was like when Shah was in power until it fell to the Islamic way and it's radical followers.

Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was returned to power in Iran after he had fled the country in 1953. This was achieved by overthrowing the government of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh with the aid of a CIA covert operation, codenamed Operation Ajax. Pahlavi maintained good relations with the United States, but experienced conflict with traditional Iranian Muslim views on alcohol, gambling, and pre-marital sex, all of which he refused to ban. The regime was renowned for its corruption and its brutal practices that, in response, witnessed protests in Iran and elicited criticism from many parts of the international community.

Strong opposition arose in many sections of society during the Shah's reign. Of particular importance in this respect were the religious figures that had long grown to be an important voice of opposition in Iran. Since the 19th century Tobacco Protests, the Ulema had been steadily growing in political as well as religious influence. The dominant theology in Iran was one that closely linked religious and secular concerns with a strong history of social activism. These included opposition to government brutality and a commitment to fight poverty. This activism was matched by a strong conservatism toward the maintenance of Islamic values. As this opposition grew, the Shah struck hard on dissidents. In 1963, for example, he attacked theology students who tried to stop the opening of a liquor store.

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi

Ayatollah Khomeini was a leader of the opposition, who claimed that the Shah's reign was a tyranny. Following the arrest of Khomeini, and his subsequent exile from Iran in 1964, rioting among the cleric's followers increased. The Shah frequently chose to answer the riots with violence, arresting and killing demonstrators. It is unknown how many lives were claimed in this campaign; the Pahlavi government claimed it to be 86, while Iranian exiles have estimated it in the thousands.

During 1963 and 1967, the Iranian economy grew considerably, due to a rise in the value of oil, as well as steel exports. Inflation accelerated at the same time, however.

Faced with growing opposition from the religious leaders, who were joined by small business leaders in 1975, the Shah launched a new effort to assert his control over Iranian society. This effort attempted to minimize the role of Islam in the life of the empire, lauding instead the achievements of pre-Islamic Persian civilization. Thus, in 1976, the beginning of the Iranian solar calendar was changed from the Islamic date to the ascension to throne by Cyrus the Great. Muslim and Marxist publications were also heavily censored.

The Shah's program of reforms was known as the White Revolution. It also abolished the feudal system (causing consequences such as breaking up property owned by some Shia clergy - which reduced their income) and it gave suffrage to women (which was protested by the clergy as being a plot to disrupt the nuclear family unit).

So you can see that Iran has not always been as crazy as it's led to be believed. It's these damn radicals that need to be kicked out and these brainwashed Iranians who actually believed the Islamic ways of the Ayotollah.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r ^^^^^ I really feel sorry for the people of Iran. I can totally believe the people are being repressed; Iran used to be quite a tourist haven, even for Americans at one point in time. I had no idea Iran wasn't Arabic?? I'm not sure I understand entirely though. Are you refering to the language or it's culture? Honestly, I don't know a lot about Iranian history as compared to it's neighbors...

I gotta plead ignorant to this aswell, I though Iran was an arabic nation. Are you saying pre ayatolla that Iran was not Muslim?
Why did the US get involved if the country was heading toward a more western dynamic?

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Why did the US get involved if the country was heading toward a more western dynamic?

Iran nationalized their oil industry.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e I gotta plead ignorant to this aswell, I though Iran was an arabic nation. Are you saying pre ayatolla that Iran was not Muslim? Why did the US get involved if the country was heading toward a more western dynamic?

Remember the Persian Empire? That's Iran, so yeh, definetly not Arabic. The name Iran means "land of the Aryans".

This section from another wikipedia material will make pretty good sense of which direction Iran was led after Ayatollah came into power:

Under Khomeini's rule, Sharia (Islamic law) was imposed, with the Islamic dress code strictly enforced for both men and women. Some Iranians welcomed these policies, since during previous regimes Iranian women had not been permitted to wear veils. However, many opponents fled the country because of their dislike of the political situation after the Revolution and its changes. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press were ostensibly protected, at least as long as it did not contradict Islamic law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhollah_Khomeini

Note how it says "Freedom of speech and freedom of the press were ostensibly protected, at least as long as it did not contradict Islamic law."

Now thats where the problem came into play. Many Iranians are far too scared to say anything when it comes to News or any other forms of media to bad mouth the Islamic or President side of Iran. If they do, they will get killed, and that is why you only hear a one sided story all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Iran nationalized their oil industry.

What about Venezuela?

I don't know much about present day Iran. If someone could please bring me up to date, as I ask a few questions.

1. Is it still a country run by strict Islamic law?
2. What sect of Islam? Wahhabism?
3. I've heard Ahmadinejad mention the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty a few times. But does he actually recognize this treaty? It was signed in the 1970's, by a totally different government. I am assuming that he does not recognize it, but we all know assuming is bad.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 What about Venezuela?

I believe this will answer your question. Venezuela still sells a lot of oil to the US and their company is Citgo. Believe it or not individuals can profit from Citgo so the US gov doesn't mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers 1. Is it still a country run by strict Islamic law?

Constitution: 2-3 December 1979; revised 1989 to expand powers of the presidency and eliminate the prime ministership
Legal system: the Constitution codifies Islamic principles of government

quote:

2. What sect of Islam? Wahhabism?

Religions: Shi'a Muslim 89%, Sunni Muslim 9%, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i 2%

Data from CIA World Factbook

quote:

3. I've heard Ahmadinejad mention the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty a few times. But does he actually recognize this treaty? It was signed in the 1970's, by a totally different government. I am assuming that he does not recognize it, but we all know assuming is bad.

In a harshly worded speech, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran has conducted its nuclear activities peacefully, in accordance with international nuclear treaties, and in cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency. But he warned that if Iran's rights are threatened, it would reconsider its policies.
Iran Warns It Could Quit Nuclear Treaty

BEIJING, Feb. 13 -- BEIJING, Feb. 13 -- The Iranian government affirmed Tehran's commitment to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty on Sunday and urged a peaceful solution to the dispute over its nuclear programme.
Iran abides by Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

It doesn't help Irans' cause to have made statements in the past which antagonizes it's neighbors.

We have to do something about Irans leader. He is f*cking nuts.
I mean, what kind of leader says that he wants to exterminate Israel.
Guess diplmocay isn't one of his qualities, but... what are his qualities? (hmm. maybe, considering G.W Bush, stupidity is considered a quality)

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.