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so there was only one shooter ? different media give different stories and i'm confused

quote:

Originally posted by stren so there was only one shooter ? different media give different stories and i'm confused

Their original information came from conflicting witness reports (and as you probably know, people under a great ammount of stress tend to have a disorted perception of things). First they said there were 4, then they said 2, and later on they confirmed it was just one guy.

There was a student who came on the news and talked to a bunch of reporters. He was extremely calm, didn't seem to react at all, wasn't depressed, wasn't crying and didn't even seem distressed by the whole thing. That's what you call shock. I bet when he wakes up tomorrow and realizes what happends he's gonna wet his bed.

quote:

The dead woman was named by Canadian newspapers as Anastasia DeSouza, 18. "She was full of life, she was the perfect little niece," her uncle Real Hevy told the Montreal Gazette.

Picture of the murder.

dead

one ugly basterd. Hope they do random searches of goth kid houses and emo kids. I always knew they were trouble.

He deserved to die. I read that this guy hate humans and this could be a possible motive. God I hate this guy

What is really sad on top of all of this is that he had been posting for months on this website that he was going to go on a killing spree!!

Almost 7000 hits and no one said anything?


This was the same site that was populated by another couple of kids who shot up schools (not sure if its Columine). Edit: It was a triple murder in Medicine Hat. Shouldn't it have been monitered by the authorities?

This guy wasn't even hiding his intentions!! Creepy looking, looser-in-life mother fucW#!@@!!

fucken disgusting guy
grom cnn website:

Police were searching for a motive Thursday, but in a profile on the Web site vampirefreaks.com, quoted Thursday by the Toronto Star, Gill writes that he wants to die "like Romeo and Juliet -- or in a hail of gunfire."

The Montreal Gazette and the French language Journal de Montreal said Gill, from the Montreal suburb of Laval, had published an online gallery of more than 50 photos depicting himself in various poses, holding a Berretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic rifle and wearing a long black trench coat and combat boots.

"His name is Trench. You will come to know him as the Angel of Death," he wrote on his vampirefreaks.com profile, according to the Gazette.

Gill's online identifier was Fatality666, according to the Star.

The Journal de Montreal quoted Gill as writing, "Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks... What else can I say? ... Vengeance is coming."

The Star said Gill wrote about hating authority figures, including police and teachers, and high school "jocks" for their bullying.

A version of Gill's Web page shows a tombstone inscribed with his name "Kimveer" and the words "Lived fast died young. Left a mangled corpse,'' the Star reported.

One of Gill's postings said he liked to play "Super Columbine Massacre," an Internet-based game that simulated the April 20, 1999, shootings by two students at a Colorado high school that left 13 people dead, The Associated Press reported.

Sounds like a bullied kid to me. It's a good thing that in recent years more attention has been drawn to this phenomenon. Only now people are starting to realize how much this can affect people.

No one is born a murderer. It's society that creates them. You may all comfort yourselves and tell yourselves that you're better people, but in the end, you were just lucky not to have lived in his shoes.

And neo; I'm sure you're a good guy with good intentions, but although you may not realize it, it's alienation caused by this kind of attitude that causes these people to commit these acts:

quote:

Originally posted by Neo Hacker He deserved to die. I read that this guy hate humans and this could be a possible motive. God I hate this guy

Instead of venting all our anger towards him, it would be wiser to remain objective and try to understand what social factors drove him to this point.

quote:

Originally posted by Oneeleven What is really sad on top of all of this is that he had been posting for months on this website that he was going to go on a killing spree!! Almost 7000 hits and no one said anything?

What are you supposed to say? Some goth loser is talking about killing people on his shitty blog? I bet there are a hundred million whiny kids filled with teenage angst claiming the same thing on their livejournals, but 99% of them are totally harmless.

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Originally posted by Aquarian Instead of venting all our anger towards him, it would be wiser to remain objective and try to understand what social factors drove him to this point.

NO SOCIAL FACTORS Can be an excuse for his faken SICK MIND

quote:

Originally posted by the_devil NO SOCIAL FACTORS Can be an excuse for his faken SICK MIND

Thanks for supporting me ! At least I'm not the only one thinking that way.

Social factors that drove him to this point ? None is powerful enough to kill 1 person and injure 20.

urgh u guys.
aquarian is right, except for the fact A NORMAL PERSON would not do that even under pressure...you have to a pre-disposition to violence. It's the combined affect of society and a person with some problems.

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Originally posted by Tag urgh u guys. aquarian is right, except for the fact A NORMAL PERSON would not do that even under pressure...you have to a pre-disposition to violence. It's the combined affect of society and a person with some problems.

it has been proved few years ago that murders have something specific in their genes where they are more pre-disposed to violence

You guys are forgetting that who a person is is defined by the very society they exist in. When you say a "normal" person wouldn't do this regardless of pressure, a "normal" person is someone who grows up in a relatively stable environment. In the end, there is no 'gene' for violent behavior. When we're born, we're like blank sheets for society to write on. After studing these things for a while, I've come to see people as microcosms of their environments. Hating them for who they are is redundant. Hate the environment that created them instead.

I heard about this as I was coming out of class yesterday for a break. Feels so weird, hitting so close to home and all.

Sigh.

quote:

Originally posted by Neo Hacker it has been proved few years ago that murders have something specific in their genes where they are more pre-disposed to violence

What you're reffering to is anti-social behavior (commonly called psychopaths). This is simply an innability to sense empathy. In other words, a psychopath can kill someone without feeling remorse. But not all psychopaths do. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of them exist peacefully in the buisness world.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Walsh What are you supposed to say? Some goth loser is talking about killing people on his shitty blog? I bet there are a hundred million whiny kids filled with teenage angst claiming the same thing on their livejournals, but 99% of them are totally harmless.

And the site should have been patrolled.

I do not agree that if a hundred million whinny kids are claiming the same things that it should not be an alarm and that it should go un-attended. It's NOT harmless!

And.... most of these "harmless" kids don't have huge guns and knifes caressed lovingly in picture after picture on their blogs.

quote:

Instead of venting all our anger towards him, it would be wiser to remain objective and try to understand what social factors drove him to this point.

And I bet you are under the impression that Clifford Olson can become a productive member of society with enough empathy and time.


While venting your anger may be pointless, I think most of us here are quite aware of the social factors that drove him to this point. It still doesn't take away the anger and the need to vent.

un des meilleurs r�sum�s de la situation:

DEUX MORTS DANS LA FUSILLADE

Comme dans un mauvais r�ve

Andr� C�dilot
Andr� No�l

La Presse


Tout juste pass� 12h30, hier, une voiture se gare pr�s du coll�ge Dawson. Un grand jeune homme tout de noir v�tu, Kimveer Gill, en descend. Il a trois armes avec lui, dont un fusil si gros qu'on a cru qu'il jouait dans un film. Mais ce n'�tait pas un film. Et la jeune femme de 22 ans qu'il a tir�e est bel et bien morte. 20 autres personnes bless�es, quatre dans un �tat critique. La police est intervenue tr�s rapidement. Le tireur a �t� abattu et est mort sur place, ce qui a mis un terme � la troisi�me tuerie � survenir dans une institution d'enseignement de la m�tropole en 17 ans.

Kimveer Gill a stationn� sa Pontiac Sunfire noire � l'angle de la rue Wood et du boulevard de Maisonneuve, pr�s du coll�ge Dawson, en plein centre-ville. Il a ouvert le coffre et sorti une carabine semi-automatique de 9 mm, un puissant pistolet de calibre .45 et un sac contenant un fusil de calibre 12 pouvant tirer quatre balles � chaque coup de pompe, ainsi que des v�tements. Il �tait pass� midi trente.

Sa vie allait prendre fin une vingtaine de minutes plus tard. Sa vie, et celle d'au moins une c�g�pienne de 22 ans de Laval. Quatre hommes sont dans un �tat tr�s critique; cinq sont s�rieusement bless�s et au moins six autres ont d� �tre soign�s pour des blessures mineures ou des chocs nerveux. Pendant plusieurs heures, tout Montr�al allait retenir son souffle, se demandant si on assistait � la r�p�tition de la trag�die survenue en d�cembre 1989 � l'�cole polytechnique, quand 14 �tudiantes avaient �t� tu�es par un tireur fou.







Mais il y avait une grande diff�rence avec le drame de Polytechnique. Hier, les policiers n'ont pas attendu de renforts avant d'intervenir. Ils sont pass�s � l'action d�s qu'ils ont compris ce qui se passait. Et cela n'a pas pris de temps.

Gill, 25 ans, de Laval, sortait de l'ordinaire. Grand (environ 1,80 m), il �tait habill� tout de noir: hautes bottes noires, pantalon noir, manteau de cuir noir, comme ceux que portent les amateurs de Gothmetal. Ses cheveux noirs �taient coup�s � la mohawk. Sur l'�paule d'un de ses v�tements �tait brod� le mot �Satan�. Et sur un chandail, cette phrase: �We do what we have to do�.

Arm� comme un guerrier, il ne passait pas inaper�u. Des �tudiants, qui se trouvaient devant le coll�ge Dawson, l'ont remarqu� et ont pens� qu'il �tait d�guis�. �Le fusil �tait tellement gros que je croyais que c'�tait un jouet, a dit Alexis Rodini, une �tudiante. En fait, je croyais qu'il participait au tournage d'un film.�

Gill ne voulait pas passer inaper�u, mais il ne souhaitait pas �tre rep�r� tout de suite par la police. Or, tout pr�s, se trouvaient deux jeunes policiers dans leur auto, en train de r�diger un rapport sur une petite saisie de stup�fiants. Un obstacle � ses plans. Un premier obstacle qu'il fallait �liminer, comme dans un jeu vid�o. Sans r�fl�chir, il a tendu le sac qui l'encombrait � un passant.

Ce dernier, un avocat, a constat� qu'il y avait le fusil � pompe dans le sac et a entendu des coups de feu. Affol�, il a jet� le paquet sous une voiture et s'est mis � courir. Les fusillades commen�aient. Mark Morin, 50 ans, pr�sident de Strat�gie Marketing, se trouvait dans son bureau au 12e �tage de la Place Alexis-Nihon. Il a entendu les coups de feu et accouru vers la fen�tre. Il a tout vu. Et pris les photos que nous vous pr�sentons ici.

Les photos des premi�res victimes. Une femme, qui a r�ussi � se relever et que des secouristes ont pu placer rapidement dans une voiture pour la transporter � l'h�pital. Et un homme, dont la t�te baignait dans une mare de sang. Le premier appel 911 est entr� � 12 h 41. Il a �t� suivi de 400 autres.

Des dizaines d'�l�ves fumaient devant l'entr�e principale du coll�ge Dawson quand les premiers coups de feu ont �t� tir�s. Cyrielle Vincent, 20 ans, a �t� alert�e par �six � huit bruits de p�tards�. Elle a regard� par terre et vu le jeune homme tomber sur le dos. Elle s'est cach�e derri�re un arbre. Elle a vu plusieurs c�g�piens se r�fugier � l'int�rieur du coll�ge. C'�tait une mauvaise id�e. Kimveer Gill les suivait, braquant sa carabine vers eux.



� l'affut par son cellulaire





Infographie La Presse

Cyrielle Vincent a entendu sonner son t�l�phone cellulaire. C'�tait son amis Nicolas Pensa, barricad� dans une classe voisine de la cage d'escaliers au quatri�me �tage du coll�ge. La voix saccad�e, il lui a dit: �On a mis trois grandes tables, une par dessus l'autre, devant la porte. On est cach�s en majorit� sous une table. On entend des coups de feu dans l'escalier.�

Selon plusieurs t�moins, Gill a tir� sur plusieurs c�g�piens en se rendant vers la caf�t�ria, notamment sur un jeune couple. La jeune femme �tait assise sur son amoureux; Gill a ordonn� � l'homme de partir et il a tir� quatre balles sur la femme.

�Je sortais de l'�cole, puis il �tait l�, � quatre m�tres de moi, a racont� Fehr Marous, 20 ans. Il portait un trench-coat, des bottes d'arm�e. Il a commenc� � tirer dans la foule, au hasard. Mon amie m'a agripp� par le bras et m'a dit de courir. Je ne sais pas si je serais encore l� si elle n'avait pas r�agi vite.

�Nous avons couru � l'int�rieur du coll�ge, parce qu'il arrivait de l'ext�rieur. Il nous a suivis en continuant de faire feu, jusqu'� ce qu'on sorte de l'�cole par l'arri�re. Il avait le regard de glace. Il n'y avait aucune �motion sur son visage. Il ne souriait pas. Il tenait l'arme � deux mains tout pr�s de sa taille.�



Une �vacuation �tr�s organis�e�



D�s 12 h 50, neuf minutes apr�s le premier appel au 911, des dizaines de policiers entourent l'�difice. Les �tudiants sortent en grand nombre. �De fa�on tr�s organis�e�, souligne Mark Morin, qui voyait toute la sc�ne depuis son bureau du 12e �tage. � 12 h 53, son appareil num�rique montre des �tudiants bless�s qui fuient le coll�ge. Une minute plus tard, une vingtaine de policiers entrent dans le coll�ge, l'arme au poing.

Yura Selepey, 19 ans, faisait ses devoirs sur une des tables de la caf�t�ria, pr�s de l'atrium, qui se trouve � l'�tage principal, quand il a entendu des coups de feu. Il a vu Gill s'embusquer pr�s des machines distributrices. �Il tirait au hasard dans la foule, a racont� le jeune homme. Des �l�ves se sont couch�s par terre, d'autres ont couru vers le fond de la caf�t�ria. Des policiers se trouvaient de l'autre c�t� des machines distributrices. Des coups de feu retentissaient de part et d'autre.�

Yura Selepey a vu deux filles et deux gar�ons touch�s par les balles. Felicia Steinfeld, qui se trouvait dans l'atrium, a vu une fen�tre, tout pr�s d'elle, voler en �clats. �Get out, get out, c'est tout ce que j'entendais, a dit �liane Gagnon. Au d�but, je pensais que c'�tait une blague. Mais j'ai vu un gars couch� par terre et j'ai compris que c'�tait vrai. Il avait �t� touch� � l'abdomen, je voyais le sang. Je me suis mise � courir.�

Plusieurs �l�ves se sont barricad�s dans les salles de cours. Ils y sont rest�s cach�s de longues minutes. �On a mis des meubles devant la porte, a dit Karlie Carpentier. Il y avait m�me un piano dans la pi�ce, alors on l'a pouss� et on a mis des choses dessus pour cacher la vitre de la porte. On est rest�s cach�s longtemps, 45 minutes je pense. Puis, on a entendu cogner, mais on ne r�pondait pas. Et l�, quelqu'un a cri�: Ouvrez, c'est la police.�

Devansh Shrivastava, un fr�le c�g�pien d'origine indienne, a vu des condisciples tomber. Depuis l'�tage sup�rieur, il avait vue sur l'atrium. Il a tendu son t�l�phone cellulaire pour tenter de prendre une photo de l'assaillant, qui se trouvait � une centaine de m�tres de lui. �Il nous a rep�r�s et a point� son arme sur nous, a-t-il racont�. Nous avons couru. Il a touch� d'autres gens.�

La fusillade �tait telle que des balles ont travers� le boulevard de Maisonneuve et atteint la place Alexis-Nihon. Le directeur de ce centre commercial, Robert Leriche, s'appr�tait � signer un bail avec un nouveau locataire quand il a entendu les coups de feu. �Le personnel de mon bureau a vu des projectiles ricocher sur les fen�tres, a-t-il relat�. Un son sourd. Les gens ont cri�, c'�tait la panique. Tout le monde s'est lanc� par terre, sous les bureaux, et on a ensuite �vacu� en catastrophe.�

Parce que, justement, la fusillade se faisait entendre dans le centre commercial, plusieurs personnes ont cru que plus d'un tireur �tait � l'oeuvre. Des dizaines de policiers ont envahi cet immeuble. Certains d'entre eux, habill�s en civil mais portant une arme au poing, ont pu �tre confondus avec des tireurs fous... �On a vu un homme habill� en bleu avec un revolver�, a racont� un passant, affol�, devant la station de m�tro Atwater.

Dans la caf�t�ria du coll�ge, Gill se sent traqu�. Il prend deux hommes en otage. Un policier l'atteint � une jambe. Il sort son pistolet de calibre .45 et se tire une balle dans le visage. Il s'effondre. Les policiers s'emparent de lui et le tra�nent � l'ext�rieur, devant une voiture de police, o� ils tentent de le ranimer. Mais en vain. Il est 13h02.



Ce r�cit a fait appel � la collaboration des reporters sur le terrain. Pascale Breton; Caroline Touzin; Hugo Meunier; Hugo de Grandpr�; Marcel Laroche; Sara Champagne; Anabelle Nicoud; Katia Gagnon

i dont understand how come they dont mention anastasia desouza who died as well ?

quote:

Originally posted by Oneeleven And I bet you are under the impression that Clifford Olson can become a productive member of society with enough empathy and time.

Some cases may be hopeless, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be prevented, or that we shouldn't try to prevent them.

quote:

I think most of us here are quite aware of the social factors that drove him to this point.

I somehow doubt that. Sure it's understandable that people are angry. But that doesn't change the fact that most people are still stuck with outdated concepts of good and evil. People don't seem so interrested in curing people with severe disorders as they are in alienating them and punishing/killing them. It wasn't that long ago that people who suffered from OCD were tortured and killed by the millions because people believed they were possessed by evil spirits. Our beliefs as a society might have evolved since then, but the attitude is still there.

quote:

Originally posted by djlemeir i dont understand how come they dont mention anastasia desouza who died as well ?

they have, but not in that story.

It's messed up when you see shit like this, especially when you think you know no one involved.

My GF went to Cuba about 3-4 weeks ago, and met up with a group of people who had came from Montreal about 2 days before them. It seems like the girl who died was a sister of one of the people she met.

Fucked up how people are connected sometimes...

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