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-- New York Yankees Thread (THIS THING OF OURS)
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i have a different perspective on the game, i can't see the game in stats like most of you guys do even though the bench considers it an attribute to the game. I agree it's part of the game and it helps you out, but as a player of the game, following stats is not what's important to the game. the mechanics of the game is what is important, knowing before it happens and what you should do in certain situations, thats the game of baseball.

I mean a fantasy league is that, it follows stats and players of the game in your own pseudo game/league of points and scores. I don't see baseball like that i don't care for individual players and how they do, I care for the team because when you play for a team you don't care about individual players across the league, you only care about your team.

I don't know if I explain myself properly, just that from the player perspective, stats across players across the league isn't nearly important as knowing that my 5 hole hitter is going to back me up with a single after i slide into second with a double, so i take an extra step on my lead to make it easier to score on a seeing eye single. It's a KNOWING game, not a stat and analyze game to me.

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Originally posted by chanman7483 We're all Yankee fans here, so lets get back to the subject at hand.. and no, I don't see the Yanks giving up on Cano... and yes, he is not as good as we all think... I could throw out stats, but I'll skip that. for now

We are?

On topic of Cano, I also think Wang is not nearly as good as he is perceived to be. If I were Cashman, I'd definitely be floating both of their names out there to see what I could get in return.

^^i thought the yankees had that bad reputation of buying all-star players to flex their deep pockets lol - so these two players don't earn those multi-bajillion dollar payrolls so they should be floated out to pick up someone better...

it seems like whatever the yankees do, there is some sort of criticism surrounding them...they go after a good player - they buy talent - they house decent players like wang and cano - ahh they can get better for those mediocre players...

which is it lol?

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Originally posted by kid nyce you fucking stat whores - this over analysis simply kills the enjoyment of the game stop deliberating over on base percentages, we aren't making the decisions on who should go where because frankly when you get that deep into the stats and rosters you lose focus of the game...it's a game you're supposed to have fun not analyze every pitcher matchup or batting order cheering for my team thats all i'll do... go pinstripes

no way, stats are what make baseball fun. Comparing stats like this is an almost uniquely baseball thing. Sure other sports have stats but nothing like the creations for baseball: OPS, OBP, SLG, etc...

^i prefer baseball fun to be digging around third on a line drive single trying to score the winning run from second.

thats fun to me...or to pitch to the 3hole batter with 2 down in the bottom of the 9th with men on

or to single and double to death a team while the team is in full rally...

lol i got a different perception about baseball - stats aren't fun to me i guess...even though im an analyst as my career LOL...

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Originally posted by kid nyce B)I know who hits what, who's on base, and who can run fast. That's all I need to know, I don't need to know peoples OBP, I can generally know by watching them play, the situations they are in and how they respond even though on paper it might say one thing, it's another thing when you see a batter hit to the right side and make an out but move a runner over to third. Same thing goes for a lefty pulling an outside pitch to move a runner over.

You know all of this stuff because in your head you intuitively take stats down. If you didn't make internal notations (which stats are an external notation of) you wouldn't know that info. So you actually do reference stats when you play the game.

by saying, "i know this stuff," its because you are keeping track of how many times someone has a certain result against you. That is the essence of taking down stats.

quote:

Originally posted by kid nyce ^i prefer baseball fun to be digging around third on a line drive single trying to score the winning run from second. thats fun to me...or to pitch to the 3hole batter with 2 down in the bottom of the 9th with men on or to single and double to death a team while the team is in full rally... lol i got a different perception about baseball - stats aren't fun to me i guess...even though im an analyst as my career LOL...

point well taken. Perhaps i spoke wrongly. Baseball is MORE fun because of stats. Its really the only game where anyone cares about it in the offseason. Part of the reason is because stats drive the offseason free agent market. People argue about who a team should acquire based on stats. I know i care more about the baseball offseason that any other sport(except snowboarding). Mostly because i like to see who fits on what team based on stats.

Re: Re: Re: Re: New York Yankees Thread

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Originally posted by dj tek dont assume shit man, i supported yankees for almost 20years... winfield, henderson, mattingly, barfield, tommy john, them days... when they sucked... i was heartbroken when right after mattingly retired yankees won the world series.... i remember watching the game when deion sanders hit an inside the park home run.. when steve sax joined the team, espinoza, kevin maas...lol yeah mets had a great season and you can think that i jumped the bandwagon, BUT i enjoy their games more and i feel their hustle more so than yankees. i go with my heart man, and i want to support the mets. dont assume me, you dont even know me... and about randy johnson im disgusted that yanks even made the choice to bring him here. wanna talk about Irabu ?

WHO THE FUCK IS IRABU???????????

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New York Yankees Thread

quote:

Originally posted by steven-neil WHO THE FUCK IS IRABU???????????

MY BAD

WHO THE FUCK IS STEVEN NEIL

mybad

quote:

Originally posted by kid nyce WHO THE FUCK IS STEVEN NEIL mybad

SORRY BUDDY,,,THOUGHT HE WAS GETTING CONFUSED WIT BOBBY ABREU...

NEW YORK YANKEES HIGHLY OFFICIAL

quote:

Originally posted by steven-neil I just wanna leave this up until vtec reinstates the original..Im currently living in Rhode Island so I have no access to YES only NESN..I've heard rumours as regards to my beloved YANKEES from friends but I cant seem to get them verified on MLB.COM...

quote:

Originally posted by kid nyce ^^i thought the yankees had that bad reputation of buying all-star players to flex their deep pockets lol - so these two players don't earn those multi-bajillion dollar payrolls so they should be floated out to pick up someone better... it seems like whatever the yankees do, there is some sort of criticism surrounding them...they go after a good player - they buy talent - they house decent players like wang and cano - ahh they can get better for those mediocre players... which is it lol?

I do see what you're saying. But I think the free agent shit is what people really hate on.

As for Wang and Cano, they should be floated around since they are good, but are perceived by the majority as being GREAT. If Wang pitches the same way he did this year and STILL has a crazy low ERA, then he's one of the most unique pitchers of all time. But I really don't see that happening. An ERA in the high 4's is more likely than the 3.60 he had last year.

i would love to see wang and cano in pinstripes, i get the petite - jeter nostalgia from the making of those two. mediocre players only because there are other stars shining over them which in my mind makes them solid players even though cano's bat isn't proven and wang isn't a number 1 even on a team of mediocre arms. I think they fit well with the nucleus of the yankees. i'd only trade players that everyone said they were proven but failed when their time came. sheff and unit are good examples of high profile players who barely stayed afloat in pinstripes, yet no names like melky, cano, wang all seem to shine a bit more than the allstars. Jeter was one of those quiet youngins who proved himself on a field of established players.

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Originally posted by kid nyce i would love to see wang and cano in pinstripes, i get the petite - jeter nostalgia from the making of those two. mediocre players only because there are other stars shining over them which in my mind makes them solid players even though cano's bat isn't proven and wang isn't a number 1 even on a team of mediocre arms. I think they fit well with the nucleus of the yankees. i'd only trade players that everyone said they were proven but failed when their time came. sheff and unit are good examples of high profile players who barely stayed afloat in pinstripes, yet no names like melky, cano, wang all seem to shine a bit more than the allstars. Jeter was one of those quiet youngins who proved himself on a field of established players.

maybe that's what they need. they went after too many prima donnas in the last few years. it's tough to make all that work. it'll help the yankees that the kids from the farm want to prove themselves in the bigs and that has helped them, especially last year when cano and wang were asked to play huge roles.

i wouldn't doubt that whatsoever, there is a nucleus there i see it and i think it's exactly what the yankees need. i didn't mind them unloading unit and sheff...i like cano, melky, wang, and proctor if cano holds the other half of the infield, melky starts swinging that bat, proctor slide into a jeff nelson role and wang stepping it up. i mean jetes came on between donnie baseball and wade boggs, posada stepped up after giradi/stanely era...

so if cano, melky, wang, and proctor step it up, they'll be the next nucleus on a field of established players

MY LINE UP

DAMON
JETER
ABREU
GIAMBI
A ROD
CANO
POSADA
MELKE
PHILLIPS

The arguement always used against Wang is that he doesn't strike out enough guys, and therefore is getting lucky when he wins games b/c the groundballs just aren't finding holes... yet. Inevitably, the groundballs find holes, the bloopers fall, and the pitcher is out of the majors.

However, I think this is def not something I'd use to describe Wang by. Sure he doesn't strike out guys, but then again, I'm not sure if he's trying to. He can throw 95, so he has the stuff, but he intentionally throws sinker after sinker after sinker to induce ground balls. He has so much movement and keeps batters off balance so much that he will keep getting groundouts.

Wang+Hughes+Sanchez = future

quote:

Originally posted by steven-neil MY LINE UP DAMON JETER ABREU GIAMBI A ROD CANO POSADA MELKE PHILLIPS

Where's Matsui & doug mientkiewicz (remember he was brought in especially for his defense)

My lineup:

Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A Rod
Giambi
Matsui
Cano
Posada
Mientkiewicz / Phillips

quote:

Originally posted by chanman7483 The arguement always used against Wang is that he doesn't strike out enough guys, and therefore is getting lucky when he wins games b/c the groundballs just aren't finding holes... yet. Inevitably, the groundballs find holes, the bloopers fall, and the pitcher is out of the majors. However, I think this is def not something I'd use to describe Wang by. Sure he doesn't strike out guys, but then again, I'm not sure if he's trying to. He can throw 95, so he has the stuff, but he intentionally throws sinker after sinker after sinker to induce ground balls. He has so much movement and keeps batters off balance so much that he will keep getting groundouts. Wang+Hughes+Sanchez = future

We shall see. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that a pitcher could throw 220 innings and strike out only 75 guys and continue to be successful. Has there ever been anyone like that in history?

you don't have to strike out everyone to be successful, especially if you have a killer sinker, thats groundball heaven - the only bad thing about being a sinker ball pitcher is that if you aren't getting movement on your pitches they tend to stay up in the zone and become watermelon size to the hitters

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 Where's Matsui & doug mientkiewicz (remember he was brought in especially for his defense) My lineup: Damon Jeter Abreu A Rod Giambi Matsui Cano Posada Mientkiewicz / Phillips

offload matsui,,or keep him in a bernie williams type role...sorry but matsui and sheff cost us the world series...

quote:

Originally posted by kid nyce you don't have to strike out everyone to be successful, especially if you have a killer sinker, thats groundball heaven - the only bad thing about being a sinker ball pitcher is that if you aren't getting movement on your pitches they tend to stay up in the zone and become watermelon size to the hitters

Show me a pitcher in history that has been successful who has a 3.14 K/9. It just doesn't happen. The more balls put in play, the more balls are going to drop for hits.

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Show me a pitcher in history that has been successful who has a 3.14 K/9. It just doesn't happen. The more balls put in play, the more balls are going to drop for hits.

wangs numbers were fucking great last season...not the best but wtf...
we won our league but unfortunately Torre had a huge dilemma on his hands...sheff was a mess at first base and matsui will never be better than melke in left field....bring back bubba crosby...

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Show me a pitcher in history that has been successful who has a 3.14 K/9. It just doesn't happen. The more balls put in play, the more balls are going to drop for hits.

want some met fan glory?

julio franco - you're telling me this boy lived on striking people out but was not a successful closer by letting batters put the ball in play?

jim abbott - his blazing fastball and his one hand? he was just as successful with the ball in play

the reason why i support wang and i support the whole put the ball in play to make outs is because any pitcher who thinks they can dominate the MLB by throwing gas is pretty much a dead arm. I myself was a slow ball pitcher, i threw groundballs all the time and it carried me all the way through college ball.

also notice that i'm ignoring your 'show me a pitcher in history' which is clearly a yell for 'can you look up some statistical facts to support your argument', because i know it's an effective pitching strategy, i know because i threw and used it myself lol i dont need statistics to back up my experience, maybe from another persons point of view who isn't as experienced may rely on statistics to show truth, i don't. i'm not trying to separate myself from anyone here or say i know more about the game than anyone else, just that i have a different perspective on the game and the fundamentals of how its played than most people who watch it.

quote:

Originally posted by kid nyce want some met fan glory? julio franco - you're telling me this boy lived on striking people out but was not a successful closer by letting batters put the ball in play? jim abbott - his blazing fastball and his one hand? he was just as successful with the ball in play the reason why i support wang and i support the whole put the ball in play to make outs is because any pitcher who thinks they can dominate the MLB by throwing gas is pretty much a dead arm. I myself was a slow ball pitcher, i threw groundballs all the time and it carried me all the way through college ball. also notice that i'm ignoring your 'show me a pitcher in history' which is clearly a yell for 'can you look up some statistical facts to support your argument', because i know it's an effective pitching strategy, i know because i threw and used it myself lol i dont need statistics to back up my experience, maybe from another persons point of view who isn't as experienced may rely on statistics to show truth, i don't. i'm not trying to separate myself from anyone here or say i know more about the game than anyone else, just that i have a different perspective on the game and the fundamentals of how its played than most people who watch it.

I didn't realize you've pitched in the major leagues.

Also, Jim Abbott didn't strike many people out, true. But he wasn't that great either. And, when he did have a good year, surprise, surprise, his K numbers were better than usual.

And... John Franco was a strike out pitcher.

I don't see how you can honestly say that putting the ball in play is better than striking people out. I never said you have to throw 99 to K people, look at Zito or Maddux. If I strike someone out, there is almost a zero chance that he will make it to first. If he hits the ball, the odds jumped up quite a bit. Not only could it fall where no one can get to it, or squeak by an infielder, but it could also be fielded poorly or even beat out by a fast runner.

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