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-- Who Killed Trance?
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here's a good example of an IQ-dropping discussion.

there have been dozens, hundreds of threads like this in the past, yet there are always new people who've missed it and will go all over it yet again. it's almost painful to read.

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster oh god, your missing the point completely. its not just about those two guys and the dj list is completely insignificant, tiesto, avb, sasha, these sort of guys are the biggest names and im not talking about how good they are or arent im talking about basically how famous they are which are two completely different things. and they are fucking significant, they were some of the leading trance producers in terms of quality about 6 years ago (although this is argued). why are u associating Talla 2xlc as a "big name" ffs? he isnt, maybe he is better but im sure alot of people have not heard of him and he's definitely not an innovator in terms of trance like say ferry corsten or pvd used to be. stop getting the words popular and good confused, paul oakenfold is shit now, tiesto is shit now, avb is shit now, pvd is shit now, etc. etc. but they have all gotten bigger at the same time sasha has moved on, oliver lieb has moved on (for a while now) this is the point we're trying to make, alot of the pioneers of trance are now gone or shit. and dont u get it, they rank so highly on these lists because of that and i already told u the misconception is that they are the best at what they do because of the lists but it does signify that they are popular among n00bs and people who have listened to trance for years aswell. besides we are talking about productions in this thread, not djing, everything u've said has been pretty much irrelevant. and u say that people who voted for them dont know anything about the trance scene, well thats the fucking problem these sorts of guys who were arguably some of the best producers in the business or were predicted to be started making shit that was accessible to people who didnt even like trance because it lost the qualities that made trance great in the first place. thats wat made them big in general and not just big among "tranceheads", that made them commercially "big" rather than just incredibly popular among people who had been trance fans since its foundations or slightly later. then alot of people started to copy them also trying to please crowds outside of the trance scene but then losing wat made it great in the scene itself.

I am not God. Though I can see why you might think I'm a God with my Greek Godlike body and beauty.

Dude...it is you that is missing the point. This topic is about wheter Paul fucken Oakenfold or Tiesto is destoying the scene. I'm saying that nether one of them are that significant to the scene to even come close to destroying the scene. I don't think anyone is. I also don't think that they were the leading leading trance producers, in terms of quality, about 6 years ago or today. Not even close! I certainly don't think that Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto are the most famous. There are tons of DJs that are just as famous.

There were too many awesome DJs and artists out there then and now! When it comnes to quality, Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto are not even close! Of course, this is where you and I probably disagree. If they were to die, 6 years ago in a plane crash, the scene would still be going strong! That's the same with Talla 2xlc or Kia Tracid!

I think Talla 2xlc or Westbam has done a lot more than Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto. Talla 2xlc and Westbam are fucken legends! Comparing Paul or Tiesto to Talla 2xlc or Westbam is like comparing today's hottest movie stars to Jack Nicholson or Robert De Niro. Yeah, Jack or Robert might not be doing so much today but they are still bigger stars anyway.

Talla 2xlc has been in it since 1978! He started Techno Club in Frankfurt, Germany in 1978! Techno club is an awesome label btw... But I'm not just talking about him! Same with Westbam! I think Kai tracid has done more too! Just check out Tracid Trax! Awesome label!! He certainly has made better tunes than Paul fucken Oakenfold or Tiesto. The same with a lot of other DJs\producers in the scene. Of course, this is where you and I probably disagree... ...so, maybe we should agree to disagree... ...before someone gets hurt...

Professor Plum

In the conservatory

With the revolver.

Re: Re: Re: Who Killed Trance?

quote:

Originally posted by AndskiSpeed U2 are sellouts

WOW

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Mage I am not God. Though I can see why you might think I'm a God with my Greek Godlike body and beauty. Dude...it is you that is missing the point. This topic is about wheter Paul fucken Oakenfold or Tiesto is destoying the scene. I'm saying that nether one of them are that significant to the scene to even come close to destroying the scene. I don't think anyone is. I also don't think that they were the leading leading trance producers, in terms of quality, about 6 years ago or today. Not even close! I certainly don't think that Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto are the most famous. There are tons of DJs that are just as famous. There were too many awesome DJs and artists out there then and now! When it comnes to quality, Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto are not even close! Of course, this is where you and I probably disagree. If they were to die, 6 years ago in a plane crash, the scene would still be going strong! That's the same with Talla 2xlc or Kia Tracid! I think Talla 2xlc or Westbam has done a lot more than Paul fucken Oakenfold and Tiesto. Talla 2xlc and Westbam are fucken legends! Comparing Paul or Tiesto to Talla 2xlc or Westbam is like comparing today's hottest movie stars to Jack Nicholson or Robert De Niro. Yeah, Jack or Robert might not be doing so much today but they are still bigger stars anyway. Talla 2xlc has been in it since 1978! He started Techno Club in Frankfurt, Germany in 1978! Techno club is an awesome label btw... But I'm not just talking about him! Same with Westbam! I think Kai tracid has done more too! Just check out Tracid Trax! Awesome label!! He certainly has made better tunes than Paul fucken Oakenfold or Tiesto. The same with a lot of other DJs\producers in the scene. Of course, this is where you and I probably disagree... ...so, maybe we should agree to disagree... ...before someone gets hurt...

good job, u missed the point completely again and u still dont know the difference between popularity and quality. your right the scene wouldnt be gone if they werent here, somebody else may have taken there place. no one said they were carrying the whole fucking industry. i give up with u though your just talking insignificant crap i dont care how much kai tracid or whoever else u think is more significant to trance than they were your wrong even if they did they werent the "faces" of trance, they werent in the same league as a sasha, or tiesto, or ferry corsten or any of them when it comes to setting the scene or in popularity and when those guys started making absolute cheese thats wat hurt the industry, not kai tracid if he had of followed that would have just hurt it more. either way wat kai tracid or any of them did didnt matter after 01.

btw to say tiesto isnt the biggest name dj is fucking ridiculous, "not even close"???? maybe you should get out of the house...

and noone said them alone destroyed the scene. i give up though, read back a bit and learn something..

i cant be arsed to read though every page of all that (again) but i think the point alot of people need to understand is that its not entirely down to certain artists/djs. its more to do with where the moneys coming from.

the tracks/djs dont get signed or booked unless someone who has the cash thinks that they will sell loads of records or fill the clubs.

id be contraversial here and point the finger at the ministry of sound brand as being one of the reasons.
i remember the first couple of annual compilations where they were half decent until around 2000/2001 when they jumped on the comercial band wagon.
the annual compilations now are almost like the "now 54" albums as well as the 98483 other compilations they pump out every week.
trance got a bad name because during its popularity, the major labels started churning out pop orientated dance records and labeling it as trance or more recently as house.

weather you like it or not, your particular favourite style of music or dj will never break though or get the response you think it should unless the guys who hold the purse strings feel the same.
its all to do with marketing and promotion and the "cheesy" sound or the "pop-house" or currently the "electro" sounds are more in main stream for their sale value to the public.

going back to the 1000000th claim of the last 7 years that trance is "dead", its not dead and never has been but its now in several different forms and each are going pretty strong with their own following and progression. you just have to remove yourself from the corporate marketing machine controlled by the major labels and what they "want" you to hear

edit

quote:

Originally posted by the gamemaster good job, u missed the point completely again and u still dont know the difference between popularity and quality. your right the scene wouldnt be gone if they werent here, somebody else may have taken there place. no one said they were carrying the whole fucking industry. i give up with u though your just talking insignificant crap i dont care how much kai tracid or whoever else u think is more significant to trance than they were your wrong even if they did they werent the "faces" of trance, they werent in the same league as a sasha, or tiesto, or ferry corsten or any of them when it comes to setting the scene or in popularity and when those guys started making absolute cheese thats wat hurt the industry, not kai tracid if he had of followed that would have just hurt it more. either way wat kai tracid or any of them did didnt matter after 01. btw to say tiesto isnt the biggest name dj is fucking ridiculous, "not even close"???? maybe you should get out of the house... and noone said them alone destroyed the scene. i give up though, read back a bit and learn something..

...lol...ok, maybe I exagerated a little bit in saying that Tiesto don't come close to being one of the biggest names...but there are a lot of bid fishes in the sea. What I mean is that he isn't even close to being the only big fish in the sea. Paul fucken Oakenfold??? I don't know how the fuck he became big... lol...And I do believe that there are bigger fishes than both Tiesto or Paul fucken Oakenfold. Uh, I've been out of the house. I've been all over the world. Lived in Germany for 8 years. Been all over Europe. How about you???

Kai Tracid and Talla 2xlc, alone, would school sasha, or tiesto, or ferry corsten. In making music and DJing.

btw...If you read the first link to this topic, started by the topic starter, you'll see him asking if Paul fucken Oaken fold or Tiesto started the death of trance. I'm just replying to his question....in which I don't think anyone or two people are that significant in the trance scene. If you think otherwise, maybe it is you that needs to get out of the house more. No need to get your panties all in a bunch.

quote:

Originally posted by Muff2K the genre itself has exploded, and has a bigger following now than it ever did. but that doesnt mean the quality of the tracks being produced is the same as it once was. thats my whole problem.

Nobody 'killed' Trance.

After Trance was all the rage in 99/00 a lot more people became aware of it and the 'dj' culture -- any kid with a computer and an internet connection became a 'producer' (I won't even touch the "DJ" bit). Tons of garbage was released and labelled 'Trance' in the hopes of cashing in on some of the rising popularity. That, in turn, diminished the perceived quality of the new productions coming out from the more established names within the genre -- 'Trance' had now become a bit of a dirty word. The bigger 'Trance DJs' didn't want to be labeled exclusively as such for fear of future reprise -- some even stayed true to the trance sound but simultaneously tried as hard as possible to not have their tunes (or their DJ sets) labeled as falling under the 'Trance' umbrella. What did this do? Well, it gave the already shitty 'Trance' productions out there even more attention and things seemed to be getting progressively worse. Enter tracks like Rapture and G&D stuff and you had quality productions that had crossover appeal across various genres (including Trance). The 'shitty Trance' producer, not having gained the recognition he/she sought, went on to other things. Now, the more reputable old-school Trance producers changed their outlook - knowing the musical landscape was different and that incorporating some pop/cheese into 'Trance' tracks might work (especially with the decline of Eurodance).

It's hard for producers to consistently churn out high-quality productions at a rate that meets the demand of today's internet age -- the constant wanting of fresh sounds/tracks is to blame. Also, back years ago, if you had a production and wanted recognition you were pretty much restricted to waiting until a big DJ incorporated your track into their set or had a label pick you up. Now, in the digital age, it doesn't take much for people to have access to ANY track they want - reducing the possibility of anyone having an 'illusive white label' that everyone wants to get their hands on. You just can't generate that hype as easily anymore and that affects all of EDM, not just Trance - but that's a whole other topic.

Now you're left with today's situation, where the 'old school' bitch about a time that once was, the 'open-minded' counter saying the sound has 'transformed', and the newbie tells everyone off because nobody dare insult their Trance.

I have seen these so called "trance is dead" and "who killed trance" threads for years, since 2001 actually, and yet there are still tracks being made, some good and some bad just as it always was, yet it was cool to like trance in 99/00 so much so that even crappy tunes were caned by all types of dj's. Once progressive rolled in and there was a dearth of trance it seemed as if trance was indeed dead, but alas it just took a respite, saved by the same producers (and some new entrants) who put trance on the map. Trance will die when younger generations cease to stop listening, djing and producing tracks. Thats hasn't happened yet and like all genres of music the quality waxes and wanes...

*points to sig*

good point...

quote:

Originally posted by ultrasonicc DJ Mikey Mike killed trance.

Rajib Bin Mahbub killed trance

Tiesto, in Dutchland, with the supersaw

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Mage ...lol...ok, maybe I exagerated a little bit in saying that Tiesto don't come close to being one of the biggest names...but there are a lot of bid fishes in the sea. What I mean is that he isn't even close to being the only big fish in the sea. Paul fucken Oakenfold??? I don't know how the fuck he became big... lol...And I do believe that there are bigger fishes than both Tiesto or Paul fucken Oakenfold. Uh, I've been out of the house. I've been all over the world. Lived in Germany for 8 years. Been all over Europe. How about you??? Kai Tracid and Talla 2xlc, alone, would school sasha, or tiesto, or ferry corsten. In making music and DJing. btw...If you read the first link to this topic, started by the topic starter, you'll see him asking if Paul fucken Oaken fold or Tiesto started the death of trance. I'm just replying to his question....in which I don't think anyone or two people are that significant in the trance scene. If you think otherwise, maybe it is you that needs to get out of the house more. No need to get your panties all in a bunch.

cool now i agree with u. yea there is alot of other big names but think about how many of them even do trance anymore or havent sold out, that list has definitely diminished. and i have been to europe, i lived in america for 4 years, now i live in australia so dont worry ive been around :P.

paul oakenfold became big because he basically has some of the best edm mix cd's of all time and in his time was a fantastic dj. tiesto is the most well known dj in his genre, that cant be argued im afraid whether u like him or not everybody knows who he is aswell as alot of non trance fans. that doesnt make him necessarily good though (dont get them confused lol). and your right they arent that significant that they could have "killed trance" (btw i dont think trance is actually "dead" but if there wasa cause i think they were apart of it) single handedly but they definitely played a big part in making trance what it is today.

but no, sasha isnt underrated as a dj thats going too far. maybe tiesto and ferry corsten are but i doubt they could be "schooled" by many people.

who gives a fuck? all i care about is jumping up & down with 10000 people next to me, to some down ass dance beat, im happy.

well if the tracks start resembling hit me baby one more time no i am not happy

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee here's a good example of an IQ-dropping discussion. there have been dozens, hundreds of threads like this in the past, yet there are always new people who've missed it and will go all over it yet again. it's almost painful to read.

i'm by no means a new person.


just disappointed in whats happened over the years.

but i guess every scene has it's climax, and then evolution.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper Nobody 'killed' Trance. After Trance was all the rage in 99/00 a lot more people became aware of it and the 'dj' culture -- any kid with a computer and an internet connection became a 'producer' (I won't even touch the "DJ" bit). Tons of garbage was released and labelled 'Trance' in the hopes of cashing in on some of the rising popularity. That, in turn, diminished the perceived quality of the new productions coming out from the more established names within the genre -- 'Trance' had now become a bit of a dirty word. The bigger 'Trance DJs' didn't want to be labeled exclusively as such for fear of future reprise -- some even stayed true to the trance sound but simultaneously tried as hard as possible to not have their tunes (or their DJ sets) labeled as falling under the 'Trance' umbrella. What did this do? Well, it gave the already shitty 'Trance' productions out there even more attention and things seemed to be getting progressively worse. Enter tracks like Rapture and G&D stuff and you had quality productions that had crossover appeal across various genres (including Trance). The 'shitty Trance' producer, not having gained the recognition he/she sought, went on to other things. Now, the more reputable old-school Trance producers changed their outlook - knowing the musical landscape was different and that incorporating some pop/cheese into 'Trance' tracks might work (especially with the decline of Eurodance). It's hard for producers to consistently churn out high-quality productions at a rate that meets the demand of today's internet age -- the constant wanting of fresh sounds/tracks is to blame. Also, back years ago, if you had a production and wanted recognition you were pretty much restricted to waiting until a big DJ incorporated your track into their set or had a label pick you up. Now, in the digital age, it doesn't take much for people to have access to ANY track they want - reducing the possibility of anyone having an 'illusive white label' that everyone wants to get their hands on. You just can't generate that hype as easily anymore and that affects all of EDM, not just Trance - but that's a whole other topic. Now you're left with today's situation, where the 'old school' bitch about a time that once was, the 'open-minded' counter saying the sound has 'transformed', and the newbie tells everyone off because nobody dare insult their Trance.

This is exactly right. Trance is not dead, there are still mint tracks today just like there was in the old days. However, today its a numbers game. Back then people didn't have the access to music they have today and there were not as many "producers" around, it was mostly serious people not Average Joe and his computer. There are probably 40 or more trance "producers" now for every one there was back in 1996. So you have to dig through a lot more shit to find the diamonds than you did back then. Now you can download every shit track from the internet whereas back then you didn't realy hear a track unless it was good enough to become popular. And I don't think some of the radio shows now help either. I believe there are quite a few tracks that are utter shit getting hammered just because the artist or producer is part of the DJs label.

mike foyle

From the epic side of things, i dig Daniel Kandi lol. I like his very-melodic (some would say "fluffy)"K(c)andi(y)-trance".


The bad thing is that both epic and psy are more or less identical to their mid-end 90s conception, and when i say identical, i mean IDENTICAL. Its completely the same, the formula hasn't evolved a bit. I'm bored listening to people saying "trance is not dead...it has evolved!" or "it has changed" Well, where is the evolution or change?!? Its exactly the same formula for gods sake...even the same sounds and synths! Polishing the production and making mathematically more precise "clinical" productions doesn't make it different right? This is why younger people love it and older don't. People who were into it before (like me) are habituated to the sound and bores them to hell. Its the same thing...easy hooky-massive-emotional lead-line, a massive break-down in the middle, and kicking-back with greater force. Nooooo moreeee man!Younger people feel its exciting! In today's commercialised computer/plastic/digital/BIG-DJ co. era, it seems to be easier to sustain a sound which is played for more then 10 years in its current form! So, yes, they may be "good" tunes out-there (although very few due to the fact that every loser is a potential producer/musician as it was stated before), with good melodies and stuff, but they are definitely not creative or whatsoever.


Actually do you know Ivan Pavlov and his famous dog and its associated reflexes and stuff? Ivan would present meet to the dog after a buzzer sound and the dog would automatically learn to salivate to the buzzer alone. This represents today's trance perfectly. A Good Pavlovic safe formula that aims to present the buzzers and meat in all the right places and make the thousands clubbers salivate in joy, breakdown after breakdown...


Epic trance was maybe a good idea back in 97...not in 07!

Trance killed trance hahaha

2004 was the last good year for trance. Then came the emergence of a bunch of 16 year olds who all claim to have taken either piano or guitar lessons at the age of 5.

quote:

Originally posted by IanBuzz Trance killed trance hahaha

It left a note reading: "This is the only way I can end the pain. I spent every day feeling like no one loved me. I decided no one would miss me if I just disappeared.

This is for the best."

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec base causes - The rise of the internet/mass filesharing - surburban white america influenced by tiesto/darude/oakenfold, etc - loss of early 90s youth culture to culture of decadence and instant gratification and youtube catalysts - borders/chain store music sections/ commercial comps - asot - concert-style headliner events (summerstage, armin only, etc) I would call it death as well, but maybe so everyone is on the same page it's better to call it a transformation. This transformation can be looked at in many ways based on bias. For me the transformation of proper "trance" music into current "trance" music, is a sort of death indeed, the death of ideals, of culture, of sound, of musical values. What "trance" is currently is usually devoid of anything trance-inducing and more about the 'banger', the 'ch00n', and all of the melodrama that ensues... I have found seeing armin or pvd live a very unpleasant experience because I am always painfully aware of the reality of the concert/fist pump/fan boy orgy and the music doesn't let me lose myself. What we are dealing with here I feel is more a result of a cultural change, and who is to blame is this new culture, and then the DJs and producers who began to sell their sound to this 'market'. It is a two way system of the transformation of the massive into the market and the iconoclast into the consumer. Some of this new asot prog sound that comes out honestly has more to do with Target commercials and minivans than the counter-culture energy that permeated early trance clubs like e-werk and tresor, and of course things like love parade. I believe you will understand that trance is essentially "dead", or let's say its children have eclipsed and effectively rubbed it out, if you watch these videos in sequence. Try to think about the "message" and the "meaning" in the videos and the music - they are directly related to cultural values. [[ LINK REMOVED ]] Major themes and imagery of video: - Rotating computer-generated solids and landscape fly-overs - Fall of the berlin wall - Urban landscape/political landscape - Community, cultural unity - Empowerment of music as a force that embodies cultural ideas of unity, tolerance, futurism, and progressive values - universal "tribal" ritual particularly watch the mijk van dijk live part. god i would kill to have been a part of that Trance? Major themes and imagery of video: - Scantily-clad women (objectified) - Asses - High Heels - (s)Excess - Objectifcation of music vis-a-vis "hit" radio track/anthem Some things of course are still shared - PvD has always been melodic/anthemic, but the difference is when he was doing it in the early 90s it was not yet a commodity and also it was still more or less new. The vestiges of this culture still remain here today, but I hope you can realize that the ideals which shaped trance music are pretty much dead...

^^^^For the record, this is not me, but it is EXACTLY what I would have said.

I actually blame Oakenfold. The first DJ who wanted to be a rockstar.

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