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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Why don't you make up your mind on which quote you want to use...?? List of people who have died from suicide. Look at that list... I dare you to tell me that every single one of those people were stupid.

+1, it's sad to see that kind of attitude towards suicide because of an irrational stigmatisation.

And what's with the hug fest? I want to hug you guys too

((((Group Hug))))

Will someone please detonate the Nuke ! for Iraq FFS.

the world is stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Boomer187 the world is stupid.

+1

The most intelligent post in this thread.

I find it appaling that people would call Hitler "Great", "Smart", or anything positive for that matter.

Great people to me were Copernicus, Newton, Mozart, Bethoven, Lincoln, Einstein, Ghandi, etc. Those people contributed to this world by existing. They made it somehow better and left a lasting contribution.

What has Hitler done? At the peak of his popularity, this abominable degenerate that you call "smart" was establishing a state that encouraged citizen spying on citizen, totalitarian state very similar to communism in principles and concepts, murder, blackmail, complete elimination of basic freedoms... Heck, he even taught russians a thing or two about totalitarism.

Don't call him "smart" - you may say he was "diabolical", "cunning" or even "shrewed" or "insidious", "deviant" and "zealous" but by no means he can be considered "SMART" by normal, thinking human being.

Smart person does not murder people, evil one does.
Smart person does not destroy the world around him, monstrous one does.

Nor is his name worthy of being next to word "Great", unless it is used in a context of "murderer of countles GREAT PEOPLE", "Destroyer of many great things like books, artworks, historical buildings and sites", etc.

Don't give the attributes to this monster that he does not deserve. To forget what he has done, to allow things like "great" or "smart" slip into same sentence as "Hitler" is an abomination and must not be allowed.

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Smart person does not murder people, evil one does. Smart person does not destroy the world around him, monstrous one does.

Intelligence brings about great evil sometimes. Nuclear weapons being an example.

Intelligence is the horsepower behind the actions. The motivation is the torque. What you do with those is something else to be judged, but to say that Hitler was stupid because all he did was seize the moment and use it...thats what smart people DO. they recognize these things. I doubt many people in Germany back then had dreams of taking over the world. Yet, they almost got Europe.

He was charismatic, intelligent, and yes, crazy. He went absolutely nuts eventually, but a lot of intelligent people are manic depressives and do amazing things when manic.

Im not saying I like Hitler, AT ALL. but Nazi Germany is one of the most powerful representations in world history of what some motivation, symbolism and demonization can do.

Psychologists and sociologists have learned a lot from the phenomenon and we still use similar tactics in war propaganda.

It was an amazing time for non-jewish Germans. A time of hope, a feeling of crawling out of the garbage pile.

Germany has now made it illegal to bear a swazi because of how ashamed they are about it. Everyone needs a powerful leader to make a nation a NATION not a bunch of dudes hanging out locally.

Imagine if he had turned that tide towards an industrial revolution, exporting merchandise, or education reform.

He did evil things and died. Not a good life or a good man.

Also, hes WAY better than stalin.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Intelligence brings about great evil sometimes. Nuclear weapons being an example. Intelligence is the horsepower behind the actions. The motivation is the torque. What you do with those is something else to be judged, but to say that Hitler was stupid because all he did was seize the moment and use it...thats what smart people DO. they recognize these things. I doubt many people in Germany back then had dreams of taking over the world. Yet, they almost got Europe. He was charismatic, intelligent, and yes, crazy. He went absolutely nuts eventually, but a lot of intelligent people are manic depressives and do amazing things when manic. Im not saying I like Hitler, AT ALL. but Nazi Germany is one of the most powerful representations in world history of what some motivation, symbolism and demonization can do. Psychologists and sociologists have learned a lot from the phenomenon and we still use similar tactics in war propaganda. It was an amazing time for non-jewish Germans. A time of hope, a feeling of crawling out of the garbage pile. Germany has now made it illegal to bear a swazi because of how ashamed they are about it. Everyone needs a powerful leader to make a nation a NATION not a bunch of dudes hanging out locally. Imagine if he had turned that tide towards an industrial revolution, exporting merchandise, or education reform. He did evil things and died. Not a good life or a good man. Also, hes WAY better than stalin.

while I would not argue over semantics, in this particular case it is definitely worthy of debate. I guess it all depends of which point of view you take....

btw, I don't think Caesar was great either.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Imagine if he had turned that tide towards an industrial revolution, exporting merchandise, or education reform. He did evil things and died. Not a good life or a good man. Also, hes WAY better than stalin.

+1 agree 100%

Whoever sayed that Hitler was sane? I dont see that anywhere in anything anyone said. And extreme intelligence is rarely found in sanity's company. Look at einstein. Do you think einstein was sane? He wasnt. I promise. Just about anybody with that level of intelligence is at least mildly insane. Timothy McVeigh was fucking brilliant, and he did the oklahoma city bombing. My point is that just because someone does something most people consider "horrendous" (and before everyone jumps on me, i also believe that what hitler and mcveigh did were terrible things, but i can also understand that some people agreed with them) does not mean they werent intelligent. It only means they had different ideas than you do.

quote:

Originally posted by Enigmatic XTC Whoever sayed that Hitler was sane? I dont see that anywhere in anything anyone said. And extreme intelligence is rarely found in sanity's company. Look at einstein. Do you think einstein was sane? He wasnt. I promise. Just about anybody with that level of intelligence is at least mildly insane. Timothy McVeigh was fucking brilliant, and he did the oklahoma city bombing. My point is that just because someone does something most people consider "horrendous" (and before everyone jumps on me, i also believe that what hitler and mcveigh did were terrible things, but i can also understand that some people agreed with them) does not mean they werent intelligent. It only means they had different ideas than you do.

Killing people is not a sign of intelligence. Saving lives, making them better is where true intelligence lies.

Alas, us humans are rather creative and ingenious when it comes to killing each other. We are the best in the business, as some alien outsiders may say.

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Killing people is not a sign of intelligence.

You're like a broken record with this one.

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing Killing people is not a sign of intelligence. Saving lives, making them better is where true intelligence lies.

Says who? If you want to use that logic, then it would have been unintelligent for us to kill hitler, had we been able to catch him. Intelligence is not tied to morals. Intelligence is relatively concrete. Morals only come into play when you decide what to use your intelligence for. Just because someone uses their intelligence for something you deem "wrong" does not make them any less intelligent. It may make them immoral, but not unintelligent.

quote:

Originally posted by Enigmatic XTC Says who? If you want to use that logic, then it would have been unintelligent for us to kill hitler, had we been able to catch him. Intelligence is not tied to morals. Intelligence is relatively concrete. Morals only come into play when you decide what to use your intelligence for. Just because someone uses their intelligence for something you deem "wrong" does not make them any less intelligent. It may make them immoral, but not unintelligent.

again. perhaps cracking a dictionary would help:

in�tel�li�gence (ĭn-t�l'ə-jəns) Pronunciation Key
n.

The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
The faculty of thought and reason.
Superior powers of mind. See Synonyms at mind.
Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy.
An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information.
Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: "Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities" (John le Carr�).
An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.
Information; news. See Synonyms at news.

Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy.
An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information.
Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: "Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities" (John le Carr�).


cun�ning /ˈkʌnɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhn-ing] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
�noun 1. skill employed in a shrewd or sly manner, as in deceiving; craftiness; guile.
2. adeptness in performance; dexterity: The weaver's hand lost its cunning.
�adjective 3. showing or made with ingenuity.
4. artfully subtle or shrewd; crafty; sly.
5. Informal. charmingly cute or appealing: a cunning little baby.
6. Archaic. skillful; expert.

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing again. perhaps cracking a dictionary would help: in�tel�li�gence (ĭn-t�l'ə-jəns) Pronunciation Key n. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge. The faculty of thought and reason. Superior powers of mind. See Synonyms at mind. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: "Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities" (John le Carr�). An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel. Information; news. See Synonyms at news. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: "Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities" (John le Carr�).

i fail to see the relevance in this. If you can explain to me how hitler didn't "acquire and apply knowledge" or use "the faculty of thought and reason" you may have a point. But you have to prove it, not just say "well he didnt use reason because i wouldnt have done that". That is not a valid argument. I promise you, he reasoned everything out before he did anything. It may not be what you would have done, but that doesnt make it "wrong" (again, i do not agree with hitler, i believe he should not have done what he did), only different.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Or you get the idea that the person is too stupid to even bother with.

Nope, but believe what you wish- I could care less.

I love how I brought Hitler into this.

I wish I could go back in time and just study his brain, and learn exactly what is was that tipped him off to be so "evil", aside from family issues.


Wow you almost make me feel like a Nazi defending him. Well then I am going to Nazi on then, because I will forever defend Hitler, I may never agree with all that he did, obviously , but I do believe this man was of high intelligence, evil and cunning yes that I will not disagree with ever, but he was still smart. We have established over and over in this discussion that intelligence can be used in negative ways and that is exactly what Hitler did

Why is it that people find Hitler and Brazil related to one another? First that film, now this

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Why is it that people find Hitler and Brazil related to one another? First that film, now this

I think it was the swastika's in the photos. I really don't think there was any connection to Brazil.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa I think it was the swastika's in the photos. I really don't think there was any connection to Brazil.

This is what pretty much made me think that they were comparing them.

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie I love how I brought Hitler into this. I wish I could go back in time and just study his brain, and learn exactly what is was that tipped him off to be so "evil", aside from family issues. Wow you almost make me feel like a Nazi defending him. Well then I am going to Nazi on then, because I will forever defend Hitler, I may never agree with all that he did, obviously , but I do believe this man was of high intelligence, evil and cunning yes that I will not disagree with ever, but he was still smart. We have established over and over in this discussion that intelligence can be used in negative ways and that is exactly what Hitler did

How can you be even part Jew and defend hitler? this defies logic, imho.

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 How can you be even part Jew and defend hitler? this defies logic, imho.

What? No? All that shit had nothing to do with me personally, down the line with family yes but with me personally ,no! So I pretty much think I can defend whom I choose to. My father may hate me even more for it, but does it honestly look like I care?

* points to face with blank expression *

Hey I'm German, raised by a German mother and and in German household, with me telling you this probably make me looks bias, right? Not at all. My mother thinks that Hitler was the definition of monster and was the most disgusting specimen of human to ever live. If SHE could go back in time it would be to kill him with her own two hands, my mother, was raised by a Nazi father.

God I love family.

The reading comprehension coupled with the astounding logic most of you have is amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie What? No? All that shit had nothing to do with me personally, down the line with family yes but with me personally ,no! So I pretty much think I can defend whom I choose to. My father may hate me even more for it, but does it honestly look like I care? * points to face with blank expression * Hey I'm German, raised by a German mother and and in German household, with me telling you this probably make me looks bias, right? Not at all. My mother thinks that Hitler was the definition of monster and was the most disgusting specimen of human to ever live. If SHE could go back in time it would be to kill him with her own two hands, my mother, was raised by a Nazi father. God I love family.

whatever. I gave up trying to convince people long time ago. pointless task. I have yet to see someone who in a process of a heated debate retreated their position and said "you know what? I agree with your point of view and you have convinced me and I changed my mind".

Hasn't happened yet. doubt I'd ever see it. so, whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_bas The reading comprehension coupled with the astounding logic most of you have is amazing.

feeling a bit acrimonious today, aren't we Bas?

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