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-- The Pumping Iron Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by geroin awesome post bigfatandugly lol the question that no one has answered yet and i've asked many people, even trained professionals, how do you work out the back of your shoulder? i've tried many different exercises and nothing seems to work, maybe im doing somehting wrong? thanks

the back of your shoulder- rear delt. there are three heads to the delt, and if you are not careful, alot of time you'll end up using your medial delt to perform the movement your trying to isolate the rear delt into doing.

ok, you've tried the exercises, so you know which ones are 'supposed' to work the rear delt. most times if someone says they can't feel the muscle they are wanting to train it is often because they are either going too heavy, or not concentrating on the movement in regards to using the body part your targeting to move the weight, or both, see?

next time you want to hit your rear delts try this. grab a pair of dumbells and go light- by light i mean 7.5 to 10 pounds. even lighter if you have to. now standing, bend over at the waist until your about 45*(or lower) and bend you knees slightly. this is the start of the rear delt fly, which im sure you have seen or done. the key to making this exercise effective, just like any other is to use only the muscle targeted to move the weight. so now start the rep. very slow. bring your elbows straight up at a 90* angle (if you could look down on yourself from above you could visualise a line that would now run in a straight line, directly from elbow to elbow, across the traps and back of the neck at the top of the movement) if you do this right, it should pinch at the top. at the top of the movement try picturing your touching elbows togehter. this is physically impossible, but it will isolate the rear delt further. pinch it there and hold it for a second. lower the weight but control it on the way down. do it again- slow, controlled. i can promise you if you do this right, the burn will be so intense you prolly be lucky to hit 10 reps before failure.

use this visualisation in the pec dec fly as well. try to touch your elbows togehter behind your back- again physically impossible, but it will help isolate the rear delt. keep them high (your elbows. they should be parallel to the floor- if you drop them you''ll begin to recruit your back) again, go slow, use enough wieght so you feel the pull on the rear delt in the negative portion of the controlled rep, but not so much as you need to jerk the weight to move it. try counting in your 'one thousand one, one thousand two' for both positive and negative of the rep with a pause at the top of the movement to pinch it.

in all geroin, if there is an exercise that is supposed to work a body part and you find it isn't, it all comes down to form. lower the weight and feel/ isolate the muscle group you want to target. once you get the hang of this you can gradually increase your weight back up to what your used to doing over time. you just have to 're- train' yourself to do the exercise properly. go light till you do it right.

hope this helps you.


BFU

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly hope this helps you. BFU

wow, amazing thanks so much, i will try it next time im at the gym. Some great advices man, are you a personal trainer?

thanks to others for links and suggestions

quote:

Originally posted by geroin wow, amazing thanks so much, i will try it next time im at the gym. Some great advices man, are you a personal trainer? thanks to others for links and suggestions

your welcome geroin, but there is no need to thank me- this lifestyle as so many people have pointed out in this thread by sharing advise is about helping others. it isnt the selfish, meathead lifestyle that it so prototypically gets portrayed as (eventhough there are more than a few who unfortunately contribute to this stereotype).

no, im not a personal trainer- competitive bodybuilder.

regards..


BFU

My alternative workout routine:

Day 1 - Arms
Part 1(morning)- Triceps and Forearms
Cable reverse - grip curl - 3-5 sets
Close - grip bench press - 3-5 sets
Single-arm dumbbell kickback - 3-5 sets
Barbell Lying Triceps Extension - 3-5 sets
One-arm cable Triceps Extension - 3-5 sets
Dumbell reverse forearm curl - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Part 2(Evening)- Biceps and Forearms
One-arm Cable Curl - 3-5 sets
Alternating Standing Hammer Curl - 3-5 sets
Cable Forearm Curl - 3-5 sets
Dumbbell Concentration Curl - 3-5 sets
Barbell Forearm Curl - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Day 2 - Back
Chinups - 3-5 sets
Pullups - 3-5 sets
Pulldown - 3-5 sets
Dumbbell Deadlift - 3-5 sets
Barbell Row - 3-5 sets
Twisting Reverse Back Hyperextension - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Day 3 - Shoulders
Seated Front Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3-5 sets
Dumbell Upright Row - 3-5 sets
Standing Cable bent-over Lateral Raise - 3-5 sets
Dumbbell Shrug - 3-5 sets
Cable Side Deltoid Raise - 3-5 sets
Seated Dumbbell Bent Laterals - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Day 4 - Chest
Incline Barbell Benc Press - 3-5 sets
Cable Crossover - 3-5 sets
Stability Ball Pushup - 3-5 sets
Flat Dumbbell Fly - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Day 5 - Legs
Part 1(Morning) - Quadriceps
Dumbbell Squat - 3-5 sets
Front Squat - 3-5 sets
Lateral Stepup - 3-5 sets
Incline Leg Press - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Part 2(Evening) - Hamstrings
Standing Heel Raise - 3-5 sets
Barbell Seated Heel Raise - 3-5 sets
Dumbbell Standing Heel Raise - 3-5 sets
Body-Weight Donkey Calf Raise - 3-5 sets
Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly your welcome geroin, but there is no need to thank me- this lifestyle as so many people have pointed out in this thread by sharing advise is about helping others. it isnt the selfish, meathead lifestyle that it so prototypically gets portrayed as (eventhough there are more than a few who unfortunately contribute to this stereotype). no, im not a personal trainer- competitive bodybuilder. regards.. BFU

nice! good to get some professional advice

cheers man

5"11
142 lbs bf probably around 10 - 8%

goal
155 lbs bf 6 - 7% + a nice tan hehe

hrmm my routine is constantly changing. Im thinking of going back to a two or 3 day split and less isolation. Less waiting time for recovery and more time to incorporate sports as well.


we have several workout threads in the cor.. heres a link with some good advice

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...4&forumid=16&s=

quote:

Originally posted by geroin i've done this, it mostly does the latissimus dorsi (well middle back mostly) and and i didnt see much improvement on the posterior deltoid

Only if you were a bird (like a pigeon )as their latissimus dorsi inserts in a way where flexion allows them to flap their wings ventrally (upwards). The way the latissimus dorsi inserts on a human and originates allows for flexion to occur when the humerous is adducted towards the body as in the motion of a wide grip pull up.

That excercise does work some lats but its predominantley for the rhomboids and rear deltoid muscles. Try moving your arm in that direction and see where the most flexion (hardness) occurs on your body. You'll see that your lats will be a bit soft compared to your middle back and rear shoulders.

Also if your not seeing much results in this excercise increase the range in motion and lower the weight a bit. I find this helps with alot of excercises.

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly next time you want to hit your rear delts try this. grab a pair of dumbells and go light- by light i mean 7.5 to 10 pounds. even lighter if you have to. now standing, bend over at the waist until your about 45*(or lower) and bend you knees slightly. this is the start of the rear delt fly, which im sure you have seen or done. the key to making this exercise effective, just like any other is to use only the muscle targeted to move the weight. so now start the rep. very slow. bring your elbows straight up at a 90* angle (if you could look down on yourself from above you could visualise a line that would now run in a straight line, directly from elbow to elbow, across the traps and back of the neck at the top of the movement) if you do this right, it should pinch at the top. at the top of the movement try picturing your touching elbows togehter. this is physically impossible, but it will isolate the rear delt further. pinch it there and hold it for a second. lower the weight but control it on the way down. do it again- slow, controlled. i can promise you if you do this right, the burn will be so intense you prolly be lucky to hit 10 reps before failure. BFU

absolutely on point. this exercise rocks, and the more you do it properly, the more enjoyable it is. shoulders are the best and most fun workout by far

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly if you do like to do cardio for fat loss, doing it in the a.m. on an empty stomach- i.e before you eat. you'll burn up to 300% more fat than at any other time during the day. the body at this time is forced to use fat reserves for energy if you have an empty stomach as opposed to using whatever food that is in it for fuel.

I believe this is subjective. I have read many articles for and against cardio on an empty stomach. But like you mentioned, different things work for different people.

Furthermore, some people take this too far and wake up, then 2 hrs later do cardio on an empty stomach, then shower and don't eat until 4-5 hrs after waking up; which throws your body into starvation mode even more so than when you were fasting through the night.

Chest Day & Tri's!

WOOT WOOT

quote:

Originally posted by Ravist My alternative workout routine: Day 1 - Arms Part 1(morning)- Triceps and Forearms Cable reverse - grip curl - 3-5 sets Close - grip bench press - 3-5 sets Single-arm dumbbell kickback - 3-5 sets Barbell Lying Triceps Extension - 3-5 sets One-arm cable Triceps Extension - 3-5 sets Dumbell reverse forearm curl - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Part 2(Evening)- Biceps and Forearms One-arm Cable Curl - 3-5 sets Alternating Standing Hammer Curl - 3-5 sets Cable Forearm Curl - 3-5 sets Dumbbell Concentration Curl - 3-5 sets Barbell Forearm Curl - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Day 2 - Back Chinups - 3-5 sets Pullups - 3-5 sets Pulldown - 3-5 sets Dumbbell Deadlift - 3-5 sets Barbell Row - 3-5 sets Twisting Reverse Back Hyperextension - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Day 3 - Shoulders Seated Front Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3-5 sets Dumbell Upright Row - 3-5 sets Standing Cable bent-over Lateral Raise - 3-5 sets Dumbbell Shrug - 3-5 sets Cable Side Deltoid Raise - 3-5 sets Seated Dumbbell Bent Laterals - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Day 4 - Chest Incline Barbell Benc Press - 3-5 sets Cable Crossover - 3-5 sets Stability Ball Pushup - 3-5 sets Flat Dumbbell Fly - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Day 5 - Legs Part 1(Morning) - Quadriceps Dumbbell Squat - 3-5 sets Front Squat - 3-5 sets Lateral Stepup - 3-5 sets Incline Leg Press - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine* Part 2(Evening) - Hamstrings Standing Heel Raise - 3-5 sets Barbell Seated Heel Raise - 3-5 sets Dumbbell Standing Heel Raise - 3-5 sets Body-Weight Donkey Calf Raise - 3-5 sets Followed by Ab and Oblique routine*

Over training much????

You dont need to spend countless hours at the gym man, 2 -3 exercises per muscle is more then enought, and if you can do each muscle more then once a week then its even better.

nice posts, BFU. thanks!

i have recently heard of an interval training method called tabata. supposedly it is a great way to increase your VO2 max and anareobic capacity. i have started to include it once a week during a run, but it can be done with just about any exercise. 20 second sprint, 10 second recovery. 8 reps. 4 minutes.

some info on tabata that i found online:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rosstraining.com/article...aintervals.html

http://www.leanandhungryfitness.com...ontent_id.20047

http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic..._20/ai_n6011850


Tabata Sprints aka Guerilla Cardio is a hardcore fat burning workout.
You may of heard of the ground breaking Tabata Protocol used to train
Japanese winter olympic speed skaters. Well one form of that is Tabata sprints also known as Guerilla Cardio.

Lasting just four minutes its possible the most powerful fat burning work out ever devised.

But don�t be fooled by the short time frame of 4 minutes. The average moderately fit person simply won�t be able to complete 2 minutes of this work out.

This workout is absolutely brutal.


Basically its 8 rounds of near max sprint effort. 20 seconds sprinting 10 seconds rest. Once you get to three you�ll really begin to struggle.

Start with a 5 - 10 minute warm up then a 5 minute cool down.

Its now used by many professional fighters and many top trainers are saying that its possible to shed 7% - 10% bodyfat within a month if you do this workout 4 times per week.

I can�t recommend this workout because if you do make it to six rounds on your first go, and you�re sprinting properly, it will most likely feel like your heart and lungs are going to explode.

It�s probably highly dangerous to anyone with heart disease.

Afterwards your body will just be shaking. Remember the original tabata protocol when originally done on stationary bikes caused olympic level athletes (one won a gold medal) to fall off the bike on to the floor trying to catch their breath.

I would avoid this workout if you�re a man with over 14% bodyfat and 18% bodyfat for women. If you�re in the low teens bodyfat wise this workout can take you down to the mid single digit body fat levels if you do it three to four times per week and eat a wholefood diet of meat, vegetables, and fruit.

To get started just aim for 4 rounds.

Later on you can add additional rounds and try and increase your sprinting speed also.

Go for one day on one day off.

This workout is one of the few on record to produce both an increased performance in VO2 Max and anaerobic capacities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: whoops double post

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ Over training much???? You dont need to spend countless hours at the gym man, 2 -3 exercises per muscle is more then enought, and if you can do each muscle more then once a week then its even better.

i never feel like my body is over-trained plus i got a professional to look over my routine and said it was ok, i get a light soreness in my body the day after no pain just soreness, its different for everyone and this takes me about 1 hour and a half to do including the ab routine so its not as much as u think

quote:

Originally posted by Ravist i never feel like my body is over-trained plus i got a professional to look over my routine and said it was ok, i get a light soreness in my body the day after no pain just soreness, its different for everyone and this takes me about 1 hour and a half to do including the ab routine so its not as much as u think

It still seems like alot. I used to train similar, not nearly as many exercises, but with training it is true that alot of the time... 'Less is more' 3-4 exercises per muscle group and squeeze the snot out of those sets.

I am feeling much better about my workouts now that I have changed my routine.

yes and as long as you are doing lots of stretches before and after(i usually dont do strethces after i should but i just get too lazy) so that you dont injure yourself. Also change your workout routine every 3-4 weeks so your muscles don't get used to the same routine all the time meaning more results in less time.

I've changed my body type a lot over the years.
I've gone from a season of cross country running at 165lbs, to a season of Nordic Skiing at the provincial level at 175lbs, to playing rugby in England and Ireland one summer at 195lbs.
I came second in Ontario mountain bike duathlon (run 5km, bike 15km, run 5km)at 170lbs.
Most recently I compete in martial arts. My fight weight has ranged from 185 to 205 but I've learned I'm much more effective at around 190 then cutting down to 185 for weigh ins. I took 2 golds and a bronze at the martial arts world championships in Jan 2006 weighing in at 186. My off season weight is around 200lbs. (I'm 6'2")

My routine is always 6 days of work outs a week to get fight ready which begins at least 5 months prior of a known tournament.
*All non martial arts workouts listed below are accompanied with a heart rate monitor using target zones.

Mondays- Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for 1.5 hours, 1.5 of Karate/striking
*Tuesday- light cardio of 45 minutes and core strengthening routines of 1.5 hours
Wednesday- Same as Monday
*Thursday- a long slow run (or other activity) of at least 1 hour
*Friday- biometrics
Saturday- weights
Sunday- off

As Dennis said before I agree with the need to fuel the body properly and supplement with protein and glutamine daily while doing this much work.
In the off season I train 3 times a week and give my body a break and chance to rest and heal. (once a week Jiu-Jitsu, once a week striking and once a week light cardio and hard biometrics/core strengthening.)
I also count going rock climbing as my cardio/core strengthening day if I choose on any given off season week.
What ever you are trying to get into shape for, I'm a huge fan of workouts that pose a particular athletic benefit rather than randomly thrown together routines for the sake of just fitting into your jeans. You might as well get better at something you enjoy for all the time you put in the gym. Have some fun with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Killah Monkey Furthermore, some people take this too far and wake up, then 2 hrs later do cardio on an empty stomach, then shower and don't eat until 4-5 hrs after waking up; which throws your body into starvation mode even more so than when you were fasting through the night.

WHOA who the f would do that?!

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree WHOA who the f would do that?!

I've had to do that on one occasion for 4 days while running in a vinyl suit on the beach in Dominican Republic to cut weight for an event that I showed up at too heavy for. It sucked. Not recommended.

quote:

Originally posted by nusty I've had to do that on one occasion for 4 days while running in a vinyl suit on the beach in Dominican Republic to cut weight for an event that I showed up at too heavy for. It sucked. Not recommended.

lol it was an inside joke because I'd been doing that for the past month until Lindsay perfected my eating habits

P.S. Have I ever told you I <3 you, Lindsay?

quote:

Originally posted by nusty I've had to do that on one occasion for 4 days while running in a vinyl suit on the beach in Dominican Republic to cut weight for an event that I showed up at too heavy for. It sucked. Not recommended.

next time you find yourself in a position to make weight, try something like this- it will be alot easier, and alot more effective....

the body is a very funny mechanism in that it is very set in its ways- it will always resist change.

this is especially true when wanting to drop water- the body will do whatever it has to to resist losing its water. the more you try to force your body to drop its water, the more it will hold onto it, actually making the process incredibly difficult.

so, what to do? well instead of denying your body water and forcing it to expel it, overload it with water.

see, instead of fighting your body, use it's want to stay in a state of stasis to your advantage and consume an excess of water.

in the week before your next tourny start ramping up your water intake. start at 4 liters a day, increasing the amount of water you take in by two liters a day until you hit 12 liters a day. why?

well, when you flood your body with water, it has to go somewhere so it causes you to go to the bathroom alot to get rid of it. now what your going to do is 36 hours before your weigh in your going to stop drinking water altogether.

now you have a perfect senario for water loss- your body thinks that there is another 12 liters coming that day and it will keep creating room for it by continuing to release it, but you wont be taking an in- see where this is headed?

your body doesnt know there is no more water coming and it keeps expelling it, wanting to make room for the water you are not going to give it. end result? you end up several pounds lighter than you normally would than by restricting its intake.

a further tip i can give you is to load sodium in the week before you load your water. take in up to 4 grams of sodium a day using soup broth. why? sodium causes the body to hold water. the more water the body holds, the more it wants to get rid of it- but it can't- its got the sodium holding all this water in it.

do this thru the last week until the day you drop your water completely. drop your sodium to 0 as well. all the water your body is holding from the sodium will be expelled as well, leaving you bone dry without the need for saunas and garbage bags.

work with your body, not agianst it and it will pay dividends.

i know you didnt ask for advise, but i hope in some small way this helps you drop water effortlessly the next time you find yourself over weight to make your class as said before, without sweating it out (thus losing your electrolyic balance) and using water depravation.

substituting fats for carbohydrates as your energy source in the last week will also help you expel any water you have as carbs will make you hold water as well.

hope this helps.


BFU

bigfatandugly

Thanks for the info, very helpful indeed!

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly next time you find yourself in a position to make weight, try something like this- it will be alot easier, and alot more effective.... the body is a very funny mechanism in that it is very set in its ways- it will always resist change. this is especially true when wanting to drop water- the body will do whatever it has to to resist losing its water. the more you try to force your body to drop its water, the more it will hold onto it, actually making the process incredibly difficult. so, what to do? well instead of denying your body water and forcing it to expel it, overload it with water. see, instead of fighting your body, use it's want to stay in a state of stasis to your advantage and consume an excess of water. in the week before your next tourny start ramping up your water intake. start at 4 liters a day, increasing the amount of water you take in by two liters a day until you hit 12 liters a day. why? well, when you flood your body with water, it has to go somewhere so it causes you to go to the bathroom alot to get rid of it. now what your going to do is 36 hours before your weigh in your going to stop drinking water altogether. now you have a perfect senario for water loss- your body thinks that there is another 12 liters coming that day and it will keep creating room for it by continuing to release it, but you wont be taking an in- see where this is headed? your body doesnt know there is no more water coming and it keeps expelling it, wanting to make room for the water you are not going to give it. end result? you end up several pounds lighter than you normally would than by restricting its intake. a further tip i can give you is to load sodium in the week before you load your water. take in up to 4 grams of sodium a day using soup broth. why? sodium causes the body to hold water. the more water the body holds, the more it wants to get rid of it- but it can't- its got the sodium holding all this water in it. do this thru the last week until the day you drop your water completely. drop your sodium to 0 as well. all the water your body is holding from the sodium will be expelled as well, leaving you bone dry without the need for saunas and garbage bags. work with your body, not agianst it and it will pay dividends. i know you didnt ask for advise, but i hope in some small way this helps you drop water effortlessly the next time you find yourself over weight to make your class as said before, without sweating it out (thus losing your electrolyic balance) and using water depravation. substituting fats for carbohydrates as your energy source in the last week will also help you expel any water you have as carbs will make you hold water as well. hope this helps. BFU

where did u learn this from?

quote:

Originally posted by bigfatandugly BFU

Hey Buddy, where are you from? What competitions are you planning on entering this year? Have I ever met you before?

ravist- there are alot of things that someone who competes competitively as a bodybuilder has an incredible amount of knowledge regarding, especially when it comes to water manipulation, g.i manipulation/ timings and macronutritent manipuation that even the most experienced nutritionists dont know about/ have heard about. this is kinda like where we excel as a group in our knowledge of the human body and how it works.

and not to say anything negative about nutritionists- god bless nutritionists- they do alot of good things and offer alot of people sound advise regarding dietary issues and heathy living guidlines that alot of people would otherwise know nothing about, so i have to give props to them and give them nothing but respect.

KM- i live in the G.T.A. there is a show i am currently prepping myself for (provincials), but that isnt where my heart is at anymore- so instead i have begun prepping some guys for some shows this summer- i find there is no better feeling in the world than having the guys im helping call me and i can hear the excitment in thier voices when they talk about thier prep and how they are progressing, and seeing them change from week to week and watch them grow and develope, not just as bodybuilders but as people. i hope/ know them seeing how i conduct myself as a person, not just in the sport, but outside of it will rub off on them and they'll be good representatives for our lifestyle, and not the cocky, arrogant type you see sometimes that gives us all a bad name.

this is truely where it is at for me- trophies mean nothing to me- i find that pales in comparison to knowing you have made a positive impact in someones life, and you only hope that they pass it on in whatever they do.

thats why im here now, it atkes me forever to type out what i do write here as i can only type with 2 fingers and always hit the wrong keys cause the keys are so small and my fingers are too big, but i dont mind it as long as i know im helping someone. in live, you get what you give. i have been blessed with much in life and the ability to help others, so it is an honor for me to be able to help you all as best i can.

i dont believe we have ever met, not been introduced more to the point. i have trained at strictly (a.j was kind enough to give me a membership) and enjoyed the atmosphere- no attitude, just good people for the most part.


BFU

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