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Originally posted by Krypton Perhaps alien spacecraft have the ability to bend space-time and travel much much faster? Think about it. If an object travels normally through space, its travelling basically on a flat plane. But if the object can bend spacetime, it can speed itself up just like a ball accelerating down a hill.

Sure, maybe they can travel quickly, but the point is, how would they even know we are here when we don't have the capability to contact them? And who's to say that an intelligent lifeform elsewhere is MORE intelligent than we are? Odds are they aren't.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Sure, maybe they can travel quickly, but the point is, how would they even know we are here when we don't have the capability to contact them? And who's to say that an intelligent lifeform elsewhere is MORE intelligent than we are? Odds are they aren't.

Perhaps, their spacecraft have heard our transmissions. I don't think our signals have to reach all the way to their home planet. If they have spacecraft capable of transversing the enormous distances of space, then I'm sure these spacecraft would be able to listen in on signals and trace their origin from where they are.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And who's to say that an intelligent lifeform elsewhere is MORE intelligent than we are? Odds are they aren't.

that would solely (mostly?) depend upon the age of the galaxy in question i would think. if there's a planet similar to earth but 5 billion years older, then i would expect super-beings of energy like the vorlons

any race that is capable of contacting us now will obviously have evolved to a higher degree, at least in the sciences. and seriously, if we were ever "visited" by a craft capable of intergalactic travel, i'd be pretty scared about it. i bet any sentient lifeform in our universe will be every bit as selfish as we are. basically...rape time!

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Originally posted by Krypton Perhaps, their spacecraft have heard our transmissions. I don't think our signals have to reach all the way to their home planet. If they have spacecraft capable of transversing the enormous distances of space, then I'm sure these spacecraft would be able to listen in on signals and trace their origin from where they are.

Call me cynical, but count the number of "ifs" we are dealing with here.

IF there is a planet like ours somewhere in the universe capable of susataining life and IF there is actually life sustained and IF they exist concurrently with our own civilization and IF they are intelligent and IF our radio transmissions have reached them and IF they have developed technology to intercept those transmissions and IF the time it takes for us to transmit and them to receive is not greater than the actual length of either civilization (biggest if in my opinion) and IF they possess the technology to travel in space and IF they are able to trace the origin of our transmission and IF their technology allows them to bend space-time and arrive in our neighborhood immediately upon receiving our transmissions and IF they are content with spending years simply observing Earth through periodic fly-bys (even though they can travel space in minutes, they spend years observing???), then just MAYBE unidentified flying objects are actually alien spacecraft.


I'm sure I'm leaving out a few ifs still.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Perhaps, their spacecraft have heard our transmissions. I don't think our signals have to reach all the way to their home planet. If they have spacecraft capable of transversing the enormous distances of space, then I'm sure these spacecraft would be able to listen in on signals and trace their origin from where they are.

Here is what Dr Steve Greer who is one of my fav researchers in this field has to say about how these crafts are able to travel such long distances from his "Hidden Truth Forbidden knowledge book:

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These civillizations have figured out the structure of space and time and non-locality. These extraterrestrila civilizations have technology-assisted consciousness systems as well as consciousness-assisted technology where there is an interface between mind and thought and a specialized physics and electromagnetism.And so when they communicate,the message is communicated from point A,say here on earth,back to a home planet,point B 1000 light years away,in real time.Thats because it has dropped out of linear space-time and has crossed over into this non-local aspect of the universe.This involves some very sophisticated physics but also encompasses the realm if thought and of consciousness. These civilizations are travelling through inter-steller distances and have mastered the science that involves consciousness,thought,electromagnetism and non-locality.

when I was reading this part I was like

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Call me cynical, but count the number of "ifs" we are dealing with here. IF there is a planet like ours somewhere in the universe capable of susataining life and IF there is actually life sustained and IF they exist concurrently with our own civilization and IF they are intelligent and IF our radio transmissions have reached them and IF they have developed technology to intercept those transmissions and IF the time it takes for us to transmit and them to receive is not greater than the actual length of either civilization (biggest if in my opinion) and IF they possess the technology to travel in space and IF they are able to trace the origin of our transmission and IF their technology allows them to bend space-time and arrive in our neighborhood immediately upon receiving our transmissions and IF they are content with spending years simply observing Earth through periodic fly-bys (even though they can travel space in minutes, they spend years observing???), then just MAYBE unidentified flying objects are actually alien spacecraft. I'm sure I'm leaving out a few ifs still.

I think the universe is large enough that those ifs are quite possible.

Maybe they know that if they land here, they will have changed our world beyond anything else that has ever happened here. They might introduce new alien organisms that could be dangerous to us, or our organisms could be dangerous to them. Perhaps, the spacecraft aren't even manned by anyone, but by robots. A robot doesn't need food, water, an artificial atmosphere, etc. Perhaps that's why we havn't encountered alien beings, though some people say they have.

quote:

These civillizations have figured out the structure of space and time and non-locality. These extraterrestrila civilizations have technology-assisted consciousness systems as well as consciousness-assisted technology where there is an interface between mind and thought and a specialized physics and electromagnetism.And so when they communicate,the message is communicated from point A,say here on earth,back to a home planet,point B 1000 light years away,in real time.Thats because it has dropped out of linear space-time and has crossed over into this non-local aspect of the universe.This involves some very sophisticated physics but also encompasses the realm if thought and of consciousness. These civilizations are travelling through inter-steller distances and have mastered the science that involves consciousness,thought,electromagnetism and non-locality.

Perhaps alien spacecraft have the ability to bend space-time and travel much much faster? Think about it. If an object travels normally through space, its travelling basically on a flat plane. But if the object can bend spacetime, it can speed itself up just like a ball accelerating down a hill.

What if not only that, but these craft can actually rip holes in the space-time continuum? Then you can travel to the other side of the universe in an instant! Like digging a hole to the other side of the earth...

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Originally posted by Krypton I think the universe is large enough that those ifs are quite possible. Maybe they know that if they land here, they will have changed our world beyond anything else that has ever happened here. They might introduce new alien organisms that could be dangerous to us, or our organisms could be dangerous to them. Perhaps, the spacecraft aren't even manned by anyone, but by robots. A robot doesn't need food, water, an artificial atmosphere, etc. Perhaps that's why we havn't encountered alien beings, though some people say they have. Perhaps alien spacecraft have the ability to bend space-time and travel much much faster? Think about it. If an object travels normally through space, its travelling basically on a flat plane. But if the object can bend spacetime, it can speed itself up just like a ball accelerating down a hill. What if not only that, but these craft can actually rip holes in the space-time continuum? Then you can travel to the other side of the universe in an instant! Like digging a hole to the other side of the earth...

Well if we are going to keep dealing with hypothetical here, a one that is quite probable is this one: What if you are all wrong? I am quite sure that statistically it is more probable that all the alternative knowledge people that claim aliens have visited us and/or impregnated our women and/or built all the marvels in the world and/or advanced are ancient civilizations are wrong. The chances of all the ifs that Lebezniatnikov posted are satisfied are quite slimmer than the chances of all this being wrong. And since you guys seem to only one deal with probabilities and chances, I would think it is quite compelling to think that all this is hypotheses are wrong.

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Originally posted by venomX Well if we are going to keep dealing with hypothetical here, a one that is quite probable is this one: What if you are all wrong? I am quite sure that statistically it is more probable that all the alternative knowledge people that claim aliens have visited us and/or impregnated our women and/or built all the marvels in the world and/or advanced are ancient civilizations are wrong. The chances of all the ifs that Lebezniatnikov posted are satisfied are quite slimmer than the chances of all this being wrong. And since you guys seem to only one deal with probabilities and chances, I would think it is quite compelling to think that all this is hypotheses are wrong.

We could very well be wrong on all accounts, as there is no verifiable evidence of the existence of alien organisms even at the microbial scale. But out there in space is such an unknown, there is no evidence that aliens don't exist because we havn't explored past our own Kiuper Belt.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And who's to say that an intelligent lifeform elsewhere is MORE intelligent than we are? Odds are they aren't.

Come on, knowing people, how can you say that?

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Originally posted by venomX And since you guys seem to only one deal with probabilities and chances, I would think it is quite compelling to think that all this is hypotheses are wrong.

All it takes is for one hypothetical "if" to be wrong for the whole theory to fall apart. It simply isn't logically sound.

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Originally posted by noikeee Come on, knowing people, how can you say that?

I wasn't thinking of other people, I was just thinking of myself.

Wouldn't some of these alien civilizations be advanced enough and seed other worlds, to make other worlds more favourable to life? I'd think they would be doing more than just travelling around and checking us out. Just a thought.

Also, I doubt that these advanced beings would be as selfish as we are. They would have evolved enough to forego primitive qualities like that. These beings live much longer than we do, thus they're smarter. They have a very very long history, and better knowledge ... I think.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Wouldn't some of these alien civilizations be advanced enough and seed other worlds, to make other worlds more favourable to life? I'd think they would be doing more than just travelling around and checking us out. Just a thought. Also, I doubt that these advanced beings would be as selfish as we are. They would have evolved enough to forego primitive qualities like that. These beings live much longer than we do, thus they're smarter. They have a very very long history, and better knowledge ... I think.

See, the problem I have with this whole thread is that it is entirely speculation based on no fact whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that nothing can be proved, and until it can be, I will forever remain skeptical, because the odds of all of those hypotheticals being true is about the same as the odds of monkeys flying out of my butt.

IF I have a really large posterior and IF there exists a mutation of monkeys that are of a smaller size than normal and IF they have evolved to survive without light or air and IF I was kidnapped by the Russian mafia and IF the Russian mafia is in the practice of implanting living creatures in innocent people's intestinal tracts and IF that operation doesn't break my plumbing and IF I am able to push with a strength required to achieve a certain momentum, then yes, maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.

Lebezniatnikov how do you explain all these testimonies
by people who have witnessed these crafts and took videos and pictures from them?How do you explain all the millitary generals,scientists coming forward with what they have seens and experienced?

Iam not trying to force you to believe something that you dont want to believe,but at the same at least you can acknowlwdge that all these people did see something and what they saw wasnt caused by nature.

I think one of the reason why we are not seeing any big disclosure by all these people who are willing to come forward and testify on extraterrestrilas and the technology that comes with them is because it would be too much to handle by most and I doubt the multi billion dollar corporations would want that to happen either,since many of these technologies would benifit for the environment and alot cheaper to produce and would be the end of our hunger for oil.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Sure, maybe they can travel quickly, but the point is, how would they even know we are here when we don't have the capability to contact them? And who's to say that an intelligent lifeform elsewhere is MORE intelligent than we are? Odds are they aren't.

The galaxy is so old, that there could have been solar systems with intelligent life (similar to our current level of intelligence) hunreds of millions of years ago.

If those civilizations managed to survive without destroying themselves, there is no telling what type of technology that have discovered over the past few million years. That level of advancement would be far beyond our imagination, so I would never say never when it comes to being able to bend space and control things like wormholes. The power requirements would be galactic...but a type IV civilization might be capable of doing such things.

We aren't even at a type 1 civilization yet, and won't reach a type 2 civilization for at least 3000 more years. That is the point where we have the technology to harness 100% of the energy of the sun with a Dyson sphere...an artificial structure built around it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_Sphere

A type III civilization goes beyond that...harvesting the power from multiple suns in multiple solar systems...It will be the point when the human race spreads to the edges of the galaxy. Any race that has surpassed this stage of evolution will be called a type IV civilization. There is a lot of speculation on what would happen when a species reaches this point, but at that time, it is very likely they will have unraveled most of the mysteries of the universe, and will be capable of controlling the fundamental forces of nature. They would be able manipulate space itself...and travel to distant galaxies in the blink of an eye.

We have a long way to go.

see more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Lebezniatnikov how do you explain all these testimonies by people who have witnessed these crafts and took videos and pictures from them?How do you explain all the millitary generals,scientists coming forward with what they have seens and experienced?

I admit those things are unexplainable by logic, which is both why I don't buy theories about aliens and why I think the label UFO is quite accurate. After all, they are unidentified. Coming up with colorful theories about what they might be only masks the truth when it eventually does emerge.

This pretty sums up all the problems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov I admit those things are unexplainable by logic, which is both why I don't buy theories about aliens and why I think the label UFO is quite accurate. After all, they are unidentified. Coming up with colorful theories about what they might be only masks the truth when it eventually does emerge.

The whole problem with the discussions on extraterrestrial life is that its clear that the governments are hiding something, one way or another, the famous Roswell incident was covered up. I thought about it millions of times as to what in the world happened there. One thing for sure it was no weather balloon - the initial story released before it was retracted and changed to a weather balloon doesnt make ANY sense. This confirmed by some former high-ranking officials like Philip Corso who wrote a book on ramifications of Roswell. Why couldn't the miitary say they were testing some military equipment or that their craft has crashed?

Its possible that there are no UFO saucers in possession of the world government. Then why would the Roswell be covered up? And if flying saucers were the creation of the secret military branch, how come these were witnessed long before World War II? A lot of things dont add up. Its obvious that US government is hiding something, something thats so important to it that it had to be covered up. Its not just the communist boogeymen anymore.

If they had come clean, there would be none of this UFO crap. But they havent. So until they dont reveal these things, I will remain sceptical of their claims that extraterrestrial life hasnt visited this planet.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt If those civilizations managed to survive without destroying themselves, there is no telling what type of technology that have discovered over the past few million years. That level of advancement would be far beyond our imagination, so I would never say never when it comes to being able to bend space and control things like wormholes. The power requirements would be galactic...but a type IV civilization might be capable of doing such things.

yeah, so what they make all this wonderful technology to traverse the universe, get to earth and crash at roswell? im not buying it.

whilst our understanding of the sciences is imperfect at best, i am sceptical and think the laws of physics are a serious impediment to intergalactic travel. we don't even have any evidence that wormholes can exist in nature.

you're right though, never say never! i believe there is probably life somewhere else in the universe, but their chances of getting here are pretty slim.

I don't believe ET has visited this planet. I believe the government has the ability to create advanced space....air crafts capable of travelling fast speeds but not fast enough to travel into outer space. What crashed in Roswell was one of these experimental aircraft. And the thing about most experimental aircraft is that they can have their funds withdrawn. So whatever was that crashed in Roswell was probably decided by top officials that it wasn't worth the money they were spending to expose themselves like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt We have a long way to go. see more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

What about a civilization that can harness the energy of black holes, quasers, and gamma ray bursts!!?

Type 5?

In the PC game, Supreme Commander 2, the intro movie has a race of aliens that use a dimensional rip in spacetime to transport an enormous army to a planet it wants to invade. That was far out..

Found it on utubery..

Soviet migs chase UFO that accelerates from less than mach 1 to more than mach 3 in less than 10 seconds.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

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Originally posted by Krypton Soviet migs chase UFO that accelerates from less than mach 1 to more than mach 3 in less than 10 seconds. [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Hahahah, that clip is from one good ufo-alien movie/video

EDIT: thats definitely not a highlight from the that video anyway ;-) But that clip of a cigar-shaped UFO is a lot like the opening post of this thread, my quote again:

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Aurigny Airlines captain Ray Bowyer, 50, flying close to Alderney first spotted the object, described as "a cigar-shaped brilliant white light". As the plane got closer the captain viewed it through binoculars and said: "It was a very sharp, thin yellow object with a green area. "It was 2,000ft up and stationary. I thought it was about 10 miles away, although I later realised it was approximately 40 miles from us. At first, I thought it was the size of a [Boeing] 737. "But it must have been much bigger because of how far away it was. It could have been as much as a mile wide."

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I have a feeling this is thread has the potential to get more posts than one on fucking Israel and Palestine and it's nothing whatsoever to do with politics!

LOL, you're right ... its only 13 pages long, but over 2450 views already. Holly shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium LOL, you're right ... its only 13 pages long, but over 2450 views already. Holly shit.

We are not alone...

Hmmmmm ...



Also:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7091701780.html

"There's the Red Vote, the Blue Vote . . . and the Little Green Vote"

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Federal law limits the participation of resident aliens in the political process. But it is silent on the role of extraterrestrial aliens. This loophole has not been lost on the life forms who arrived on these shores aboard flying saucers with little more than the antennae on their backs. After years of suffering without suffrage, these beings are now seeking to play a role in the 2008 presidential campaign. That, at any rate, is the considered opinion of the Paradigm Research Group, which held a news conference at the National Press Club yesterday to demand that presidential candidates support a "truth amnesty" to end the "government-imposed truth embargo on the facts confirming an extraterrestrial presence." "The truth amnesty disclosure project is reportedly recommended by the participating extraterrestrials themselves," Alfred Webre of the Institute for Cooperation in Space announced to the humans-only gathering, next door to a speech on Iraq by Rep. Jack Murtha. "That is the specific extraterrestrial civilization which approximately 60 years ago entered into a top-secret CIA human-extraterrestrial liaison program." The 2008 presidential cycle has already been an abnormal one, and the candidates yesterday resisted this attempt to turn the race toward the paranormal. "Let me check in with the mothership," Phil Singer, a Hillary Clinton spokesman, answered when asked about the truth embargo. "We're more focused on lifting the government-imposed truth embargo on issues like the war in Iraq," replied Bill Burton, a spokesman for Barack Obama. Dismissive answers such as these from the two Democratic front-runners leave an opening for other candidates to claim the alien vote -- a prospect that could create havoc in the primaries if large numbers of ETs are found to be living in Iowa and New Hampshire. The likeliest beneficiary: New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who wrote a foreword to the "Roswell Dig Diaries," a UFO book. "As a 25-year-old he was an employee of a secret CIA extraterrestrial liaison program," Webre explained. "He has inside knowledge." But the knowledge must still be secret: His spokeswoman didn't respond to an inquiry. Also a favorite of the ET crowd is Dennis Kucinich, the Ohio congressman. "I'm sorry to out you, Dennis, but he knows a lot about this subject," confided Stephen Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group. "If he brings it forward as a presidential candidate, he's going to make some history." The Republican side is "really tough" for the UFO crowd, but Bassett gives his nod to John McCain, a former Navy pilot, over Ron Paul, who was an Air Force flight surgeon. "McCain has shown some displeasure with the way NASA has conducted its affairs," Bassett reasoned. More than anybody, Bassett has been working to elevate alien affairs as an issue in 2008. He filmed video questions for the CNN-You Tube debates; they weren't selected. He urged George Stephanopoulos to ask the candidates about ETs; no luck. He wrote an article titled the "ET Ticket" -- it gives the nod to Clinton and Richardson -- for publications such as UFO Magazine. And, fresh from the weekend's "X-Conference 2007" convention in Gaithersburg, he rented a room at the press club yesterday to announce "new efforts to introduce the UFO/ET issue into the ongoing presidential campaigns." An economy-minded Bassett didn't order a microphone for his event, and the "X-Conference" banner he bought on the Internet ("one-third the price of Kinkos!") was too big for the room and had to be continued on a second wall. About 40 X-Conference conventioneers packed the room, far outnumbering the handful of journalists. But none of this slowed Bassett, who treated the assembly to startling revelations: the "Jimmy Carter ET studies," the "Rockefeller initiative toward the Clinton administration to end the UFO truth embargo" and the "1967 Malmstrom Air Force Base incident, where our SAC missiles were shut down by an ET craft hanging over the base." Not one of the participants or audience members cracked a smile. Neither did they giggle when Webre proposed an environmental rationale for the ET amnesty program, saying the aliens' "advanced technology," which uses nonpolluting fuel, could "revolutionize the transport of goods and people on this planet and rejuvenate the biosphere." The faces remained serious and earnest when Robert Miles, a film producer, announced plans to give each member of Congress a high-definition DVD titled "Fastwalkers: They Are Here." On the cover, a mean-looking alien eyes the Capitol and saucers circle overhead. "Don't tell me the American public's not interested," Miles challenged. So far, however, the presidential candidates remain, well, alienated. Even Kucinich. "If you have a serious question, just ask me," Kucinich spokeswoman Natalie Laber replied when told of the UFO crowd's hopes for her boss. "If not, then just keep your silly comments to yourself."

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