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-- Global warming and evolution: here's a discussion point.
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Originally posted by PETRAN WTF, de the guy from the original article just said that intelligence and heat are reversely related!?

Which explains why the US South largely votes republican.



I kid, I kid

Well, from my point of wiev, we have allready fucked up with global warming, since nobody is ready to take radical act about it. So, I don't really bother my mind with it much anymore.

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Originally posted by Ridexer Well, from my point of wiev, we have allready fucked up with global warming, since nobody is ready to take radical act about it. So, I don't really bother my mind with it much anymore.

I find people like you to be more a nuisance than people who deny the issue to begin with. You're basically saying, "Yeah, I know there's a problem - but I can't do anything about it, and we're pretty much fucked already, so who cares?"

Acknowledging that there's a real problem and then deciding to just contribute to it out of nothing but shear apathy is pretty sad.

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Originally posted by RJT I find people like you to be more a nuisance than people who deny the issue to begin with. You're basically saying, "Yeah, I know there's a problem - but I can't do anything about it, and we're pretty much fucked already, so who cares?" Acknowledging that there's a real problem and then deciding to just contribute to it out of nothing but shear apathy is pretty sad.

i on the other hand have taken it upon myself to advance the cause of global warming, as a means to destroy humanity and its real curse, organised religion. oooh, better go switch my car on...

The Earth is getting warmer as part of a natural cycle anyway, all we're doing is giving it a helping hand

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i on the other hand have taken it upon myself to advance the cause of global warming, as a means to destroy humanity and its real curse, organised religion. oooh, better go switch my car on...

At least you're steadfast in your position.

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Originally posted by RJT At least you're steadfast in your position.

Hey, you have to respect consistancy. Good on ya PKC

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Originally posted by RJT I find people like you to be more a nuisance than people who deny the issue to begin with. You're basically saying, "Yeah, I know there's a problem - but I can't do anything about it, and we're pretty much fucked already, so who cares?" Acknowledging that there's a real problem and then deciding to just contribute to it out of nothing but shear apathy is pretty sad.

Well... For over decade there has been talk about drastic changes needing to take place, and what we get? Carbon emissions are higher than ever, and goverments struggling to make contract on cutting carbon emissions to level that still is way high. (and CO2 stays on atmosphere for average 30 years, so yeah it will take long time before any changes start to really make effect.)

At one point I paid lots of attention to stuff like shutting all electric apllications and telling people to do so (well yeah I still cut power off whenever possible) and returning the bottles etc.


But then I realized that all the stuff im bothering my head with is not going to make any significant impact. Yeah sure if many enough peoples do this and this, there won't be as drastic effects. Well, it's still all minimal, inviduals are hardly making much of the carbon emissions anyways, and if we get one big volcanic eruption, it will make the emissions saved by inviduals seem like fart on sahara.

Also, the thing with changing enviroments is, that species will adopt. Polar bear for example is, according to some study I read while back ago, is about 40 000 year old as specie, and grizzly bears in north america are more genetically related to polar bears than grizzly bears in asia/europe. So, polar bear has it's lifestyle adopted to hunting seals on ice, and as that get's impossible, polar bears have to either custom new lifestyle or dissappear. We can save polar bear at zoo's but it doesn't make big difference, it doesn't anymore have place to live on, it gets obsolete. If there will be sea ice on north pole area for example after next ice age, and there will be seals too, some specie will propably start to use the food source, and then have pretty similiar to lifespan as specie as polar bears have. We will lose species because of climate change and global warming for sure,but other species will claim their spots, or new one's will emerge.

And in the end, sun will eventually burn the earth anyways

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Originally posted by Ridexer Also, the thing with changing environments is, that species will adapt.

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Originally posted by Ridexer Well... For over decade there has been talk about drastic changes needing to take place, and what we get? Carbon emissions are higher than ever, and goverments struggling to make contract on cutting carbon emissions to level that still is way high. (and CO2 stays on atmosphere for average 30 years, so yeah it will take long time before any changes start to really make effect.) At one point I paid lots of attention to stuff like shutting all electric apllications and telling people to do so (well yeah I still cut power off whenever possible) and returning the bottles etc. But then I realized that all the stuff im bothering my head with is not going to make any significant impact. Yeah sure if many enough peoples do this and this, there won't be as drastic effects. Well, it's still all minimal, inviduals are hardly making much of the carbon emissions anyways, and if we get one big volcanic eruption, it will make the emissions saved by inviduals seem like fart on sahara. Also, the thing with changing enviroments is, that species will adopt. Polar bear for example is, according to some study I read while back ago, is about 40 000 year old as specie, and grizzly bears in north america are more genetically related to polar bears than grizzly bears in asia/europe. So, polar bear has it's lifestyle adopted to hunting seals on ice, and as that get's impossible, polar bears have to either custom new lifestyle or dissappear. We can save polar bear at zoo's but it doesn't make big difference, it doesn't anymore have place to live on, it gets obsolete. If there will be sea ice on north pole area for example after next ice age, and there will be seals too, some specie will propably start to use the food source, and then have pretty similiar to lifespan as specie as polar bears have. We will lose species because of climate change and global warming for sure,but other species will claim their spots, or new one's will emerge. And in the end, sun will eventually burn the earth anyways

First, it is entirely feasible that human beings are one of those species that will be lost. More often than not it really seems like people fail to realize that we are no different than any other species on this planet - we aren't removed somehow from our environment.

Beyond that, you just took a lot of time and words to say "I just don't care." That's fine and well, and you're welcome to believe you have no influence and/or can't do anything to help, but you're wrong - and the biggest threat our planet faces isn't from global warming or loss of resources; it's people who choose to give up.

You're not asking for people to adapt at all - you're just saying "Well, the planet will adapt, and if necessary, kill us off in an effort to save itself. Oh well."

I think that's an incredibly shit attitude to have, but unfortunately you're more than entitled to it.

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Originally posted by RJT You're not asking for people to adapt at all - you're just saying "Well, the planet will adapt, and if necessary, the animals and plants will die off to make room for species that can deal with our irresponsible lifestyles. Oh well." I think that's an incredibly shit attitude to have, but unfortunately you're more than entitled to it.

Fixed for greater accuracy.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Fixed for greater accuracy.

It never ceases to amaze me how often folks who get sucked into the "natural cycles" debate fail to realize that human beings are a part of nature.

We aren't talking about conservation and responsible lifestyles from the outside looking in.

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Originally posted by RJT It never ceases to amaze me how often folks who get sucked into the "natural cycles" debate fail to realize that human beings are a part of nature. We aren't talking about conservation and responsible lifestyles from the outside looking in.

It's stupidity to ignore the effect of climate change on humans, but it's simply arrogant to say "oh well, the plants and animals can just deal with our apathy if they don't like it."

The thing that might drive me more crazy than anything is the constant beating of the "You guys are just buying into some apocalyptic, doomsday BS" drum.

I rarely see anyone who is legitimately tackling the issue of climate change and resource conservation making claims about how we're "doomed" - but folks who don't buy into global warming or oil issues always seem all too happy to say things like "Oh, you guys are just doomsday prophets - you're just exaggerating!"



Just a load of "see no/hear no/speak no evil" bollocks.

2012 is the year the earth as we know it ends, right?

We need to stop destroying the earth.

Doesn't simple heat make a lot of people "more tired and more irritable?"

I wouldn't be surprised if heat itself had a direct effect on people's ability to concentrate on mental tasks, as I have a much easier time thinking something out when I'm cool than when I'm uncomfortably hot. Heat makes me feel drowsy and slow-witted, and I suspect that many other people are the same way.

The traditional explanation for greater intelligence evolving in cold climates was that people in cold climates had to plan more carefully and construct more robust kinds of shelters because of the long, harsh winters.

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Originally posted by Ridexer Also, the thing with changing enviroments is, that species will adopt.

They won't adapt when these changes take place on unnatural time scales. Species adaptation takes a LONG time, and just because we have seen these kinds of temperatures on earth before doesnt mean that it's been this quick. It hasn't. We've proven that.

Its not the dT, its the dT/dt.

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Originally posted by Acton The Earth is getting warmer as part of a natural cycle anyway, all we're doing is giving it a helping hand

The Earths warming cycle was supposed to have ended and we have kept the cycle continuing. This is a problem.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Doesn't simple heat make a lot of people "more tired and more irritable?" I wouldn't be surprised if heat itself had a direct effect on people's ability to concentrate on mental tasks, as I have a much easier time thinking something out when I'm cool than when I'm uncomfortably hot. Heat makes me feel drowsy and slow-witted, and I suspect that many other people are the same way. The traditional explanation for greater intelligence evolving in cold climates was that people in cold climates had to plan more carefully and construct more robust kinds of shelters because of the long, harsh winters.

Yeah, thats what i thought. In addition, in contradicts the fact that civilization started in warmer climates in the first place e.g. Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece and Rome. The author aknowledges that but it seems that he doesn't give a reason why, he just says "civilization may have started in warmer environments but that was then". This is not science this is supidity.




Second, those correlational studies just look at relations in the first place, not causations and there could be many hidden variables regarding that specific relation. Despite that, the author states that here we "probably have causation" because the weather comes first in relation to the thee dependent variables. Whilst this is true there is no way that one could imply a ("probable") "causation" from a correlation.



Third, the data are ONLY taken from the USA. This is far from scientific, since there could be hidden "societal" and other factors which could lead to the current correlation rather than the weather per se. In a matter of fact, the author aknowledges that, saying that the differences could reflect a "brain drain" in which "smarter" immigrants could have settled to the northern states whereas "dumber" ones to southern ones, but then he proposes a counter-argument which goes like this:


"Even in this case, where climate does not cause group differences in IQ, it still confirms the hypothesis that colder climates favor civilization -- why else would smarties flock there?"



Right, so colder climates causes higher IQ, and why do we have higher IQ(?) and increased civilization? Because people with high IQ go to colder climates. Sorry man, but this seems like circular logic to me.




In a matter of fact, there would be no need for "brain drain" hypothesis and stuff, this whole thing could be the result of simple happenstance and societal factors which could have occured at the time of migration from Europe. I'm no expert at American history, but i have the impression that overall more criminals/gold-seekers/miners/adventurers (people who could possibly have a lower IQ on those specific aspects that IQ tests test) tended to go to the American south, due to its rich resources in Gold and Petroleum, which as far as i know, were found in higher proportions in comparison to the American north. As a result, current lower IQ-means could reflect the genetic traits of those early "wilder" southern immigrants.




I'm not stating this as an alternative explanation, but more of as an example of how many alternative/hidden variables/explanations could contribute to the proposed statistical relationship. But you JBJ must know bettern than me (because you are from the states and as far as i can see from Texas...oops sorry ).




And lol at this thread for ending to another typical "Global Warming" discussion which has nothing to do with the curent thread-subject.


It seems that the words "global warming" alone were enough to cause the "flames"

Yup, human's are part of the nature, even though we aren't really healthy to it. I just didn't want to bring it up on the last post, since there are enough of wackos running around internet telling how we are cancer on earth and should be demolished by any means possible.

Most people image of nature nowadays is pretty twiested, or almoust nonexistant (Just on side note, Im have always been big nature enthusiast and always will be...) and that is basicly the core of the problem. Nature is more like resource than the system we are living on nowadays. Ok I could keep on the preaching, but most have anyways heard these things many times over and over and it wouldn't really take the discuission anywhere.

Im not saying that we should let the things roll like they are, and just give up, but I'm trying to say, that the ball is really on higher authorities. The problem has been acknowledged for long time, and yet politicans just talk about it, and then make some contracts that will allow the polluting go on, but only difference is that the companies will have to use money to pollute. Hell, I'm all in if there would be decision to cut out most of the things that we keep as part of modern society (For example exotic fruits, personal cars for most people, most flights etc.) if everyone would agree to. But seeing nothing really happening and life going on as it is, (hell, bank's giving 60 year loans for houses, like stuff wouldn't change by alot in that time, oil price going so high that there wouldn't be point using it for example.) I see no real point of limiting my life to "save" enviroment. If there is million fly's eating on pile of corpses, does it make difference if one fly flies away? It's not like the piece that was left uneaten by the one fly will be left as it is.
Now, if majority, or at least big amount of them would suddenly fly away, rest might realize there is something fucked up in there, and would follow them. In order to get this kind of reactions, we would really need to have goverments stepping to it.

So yeah, I will keep feasting on the corpse untill I feel that it does make difference to stop, or when I can know that my spot will not be claimed by other fly.

I hope you understand the point. (Actually I used to think that people in the mindset I am on are disguisting too, but trying to do something about it, while nothing really seems to be done about it really eats away the will to do something about it.)

Re: Global warming and evolution: here's a discussion point.

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Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie Interesting? Bullshit?

Re: Re: Global warming and evolution: here's a discussion point.

quote:

Originally posted by nrjizer

Actually there is quite lot of pirates nowadays on asia/middle east region, so your graph is flawed

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