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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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quote:

Originally posted by skot_e OK so what your saying is that because I argue there seems to be no plane at the pentagon, going by what I can see with my own eyes in those photos, I hate America. Good arguement.

no, but id like to know what you think was gained by attacking the pentagon. the attacks on the WTCs werent enough? (and id like to point out that thank fvck we have video of the planes hitting the towers coz id hate to see what ridiculous shit people would come up with). the WTC attacks were quite enough to justify a war. why fire a missile at the pentagon as well? theres really no need.

also, do you think they could just invent an aircraft and say it crashed into the building? you dont think the airlines & investigators might notice there wasnt a missing plane that was said to be used? dont be an idiot. and where did the people that were on that plane really go if it didnt crash into the building?

if there was indeed a missile fired by the US military at the pentagon, why lie and say it was a plane when its just as easy (and less problematic) to say there was an operative on the ground that fired the missile at the building?

again, i wish you guys would stop posing questions and start providing answers.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco I may have said this before in this now very long thread, but imho, what all these Conspiracy Theorists are saying is; They hate the U.S. and it's Governement (or at least it's current Administration) so much, and always have...even to the point where they can't possibly see themselves siding with the U.S. once it has been so wrongly attacked. They know what the Terorrorists did on 9-11 was completely without justification. But they just can't bring themselves to admit it, that maybe the "great satan" was wrongly attacked...so they naturally turn it around and actually BLAME the U.S. for 9-11! What other choice do you have when you're so filled with hate? Now who is being closed-minded? You Conspiracy Theory nuts, that's who.

^^^^^^^^^

Agent provocateur.

btw that 911 Eye witness thing i was talking about is on Google Video aswell, view it [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

ed2k://|file|911.Eyewitness.avi|711874560|83307D534D657438AD5E82F85AAA6FED|/

quote:

Originally posted by Psygnosis btw that 911 Eye witness thing i was talking about is on Google Video aswell, view it [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Interesting...

I'll watch when I have some more time...I started it and them realized it was almost two hours long!

Hasn't this topic been covered like a gazillion times already?

Regardless, at present I haven't seen any conclusive or even reasonably worthy evidence of any conspiracy.

Therefore I cannot state anything other than it was what was laid out by the 9/11 Commission Report and the Senate Select Committee of Intelligence Report Part 1.

Are there some questionable things to consider? Sure, but I just can't conclude anything past the speculative level.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, but id like to know what you think was gained by attacking the pentagon. the attacks on the WTCs werent enough?why fire a missile at the pentagon as well? theres really no need.

To eliminate someone who had enough backing to prevent the war??? How would I know

quote:

also, do you think they could just invent an aircraft and say it crashed into the building? you dont think the airlines & investigators might notice there wasnt a missing plane that was said to be used? dont be an idiot. and where did the people that were on that plane really go if it didnt crash into the building?

Watch the video, it gives reasons - I am not saying that is how it is at all, it is just an alternative view. Don't quite see how I am an idiot for keeping an open mind...

quote:

if there was indeed a missile fired by the US military at the pentagon, why lie and say it was a plane when its just as easy (and less problematic) to say there was an operative on the ground that fired the missile at the building?

Not gonna happen - a ground op would not be able to carry a large enough weapon to penetrate that many layers of the penatgon.

Hell for all I know it was an Iranian fighter jet, but the US doesn't want to embarras itself by admiting it.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Hell for all I know it was an Iranian fighter jet, but the US doesn't want to embarras itself by admiting it.

Um, I guess Iran is embarrassed too, seeing as how I've never heard them say they're missing a Jet Fighter.

Ho do you suppose that little jet fighter would get half way around the globe anyway?

Keeping an open mind is one thing....using your mind is another.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Um, I guess Iran is embarrassed too, seeing as how I've never heard them say they're missing a Jet Fighter. Ho do you suppose that little jet fighter would get half way around the globe anyway? Keeping an open mind is one thing....using your mind is another.

Dude at no point am I saying that happened. It coulda been oscar the grouch! But I spose you wanna tell me he can't leave his can!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, but id like to know what you think was gained by attacking the pentagon. the attacks on the WTCs werent enough? (and id like to point out that thank fvck we have video of the planes hitting the towers coz id hate to see what ridiculous shit people would come up with). the WTC attacks were quite enough to justify a war. why fire a missile at the pentagon as well? theres really no need. also, do you think they could just invent an aircraft and say it crashed into the building? you dont think the airlines & investigators might notice there wasnt a missing plane that was said to be used? dont be an idiot. and where did the people that were on that plane really go if it didnt crash into the building? if there was indeed a missile fired by the US military at the pentagon, why lie and say it was a plane when its just as easy (and less problematic) to say there was an operative on the ground that fired the missile at the building? again, i wish you guys would stop posing questions and start providing answers.

Oh please... The planes didn't make the towers fall so 'perfectly' in NINE POINT TWO seconds! It looks like a controlled demilition covered up by them planes that crashed into the towers prior...

quote:

Originally posted by ali92 Oh please... The planes didn't make the towers fall so 'perfectly' in NINE POINT TWO seconds! It looks like a controlled demilition covered up by them planes that crashed into the towers prior...

They didn't fall perfectly.

They destroyed a some of buildings next to them, and damaged a few others.

Get informed, please.

quote:

Originally posted by ali92 Oh please... The planes didn't make the towers fall so 'perfectly' in NINE POINT TWO seconds! It looks like a controlled demilition covered up by them planes that crashed into the towers prior...

again, someone who isnt answering my questions. and as already noted, they didnt fall perfectly. an implosion means a building falls in on itself; the towers spewed debris outwards.

it also seems remarkable that the planes hit the towers just above where the govt had placed the explosives!! or did they plant the explosives after the planes hit?

again, unless youre a structural engineer i doubt you know the first thing about demolition or the ins and outs of a building falling down due to fire and damage.

also, id like to know why the need for the towers to be brought down anyway? an attack of this nature would be enough to ferment public opinion imo.

i will watch the video when i get cable back at home, but so far the other conspiracy vids ive seen are grasping at straws.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN again, someone who isnt answering my questions. and as already noted, they didnt fall perfectly. an implosion means a building falls in on itself; the towers spewed debris outwards.

Debris spewed outwards due to the way the buildings were built, and by the way they were hit.

As you should already know, structural support was on the outside wall, and in the core. Beside supporting the weight of the floor, the floor trusses held the wall and the core together, making sure they do not fall away from each other. The planes hit with such force, that it took the foam fire-resistant material off. The fires then heated the floor trusses could no longer support the load from the outer wall and the core. The trusses failed, and, especially where the impact occurred, the outer wall collapsed outward.

I would compare it to a coke can. Crush a coke can, and notice the it does not crush very well. The parts of the can jut out, and some parts collapse in. Of course their was no force pushing down the towers, besides it's own weight, but you can get an idea of what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN it also seems remarkable that the planes hit the towers just above where the govt had placed the explosives!! or did they plant the explosives after the planes hit?

Your acting as if it's a solid fact that there were explosives. There is no evidence concluding that there were any explosives, besides what was in the 2nd plane.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN again, unless youre a structural engineer i doubt you know the first thing about demolition or the ins and outs of a building falling down due to fire and damage.

Don't assume.

This link was posted earlier today in the NY subforums, [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

It talks about the demolition and the use of bombs, like you guys are talking about. I'm sure most of you have seen this, but I'm posting this for the ones that haven't. Some things are interesting, but no real proof is shown to a lot of their points.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Your acting as if it's a solid fact that there were explosives. There is no evidence concluding that there were any explosives, besides what was in the 2nd plane.

um, youre misunderstanding what i said mate. im not accepting there were bombs at all read what i said again.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Don't assume.

why not? so many people on this board try and give lectures about something they dont really know much about; beyond perhaps what some conspiracy net site says about structural integrity. you get stuff like:

quote:

Originally posted by ali92 It looks like a controlled demilition covered up by them planes that crashed into the towers prior...

and since we've never had a situation before where a massive aircraft has smashed into a skyscraper, i think people offering \"expert\" opinion that it was *obviously* a demolition a bit of a stretch if theyre not somewhat familiar with the subject matter.

quote:

So she wasn't surprised by recent news reports that 23 former Ground Zero responders have died from diseases related to their exposure to toxic chemicals there, and that thousands more are sick and suffering. While some responders are suing the government, Giebfried and others want the federal government to pay for medical treatment for the sick responders, many of whom can no longer work and have no health insurance.

9/11 responders are now in need of help

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers They didn't fall perfectly. They destroyed a some of buildings next to them, and damaged a few others. Get informed, please.

Maybe you should watch that 911 Eye Witness link i put up in the previous page so you can think about this statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Psygnosis Maybe you should watch that 911 Eye Witness link i put up in the previous page so you can think about this statement.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


http://isohunt.com/torrents.php?ihq...ess&ext=&op=and

Motassadeq was first found guilty in February 2003 and jailed for the maximum 15 years on more than 3,000 counts of accessory to murder and membership in a terrorist organization in the world's first conviction in connection with September 11.
But a retrial was ordered when a federal court in 2004 quashed the verdict on the grounds that US authorities had refused to allow the court to question top suspects from Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda network in American custody.
During the new trial, the court found there was no evidence to show that Motassadeq had been directly involved in the attacks in New York and Washington
World's first Sept 11 convict released in Germany

A few posters on here have brought up some VERY common sence questions for you conspiracy theorists like trance-x...yet not one of you brain surgeons even attmepted to answer them...seems all you do is spit up some nonsense your read from some loner quck who made a webpage cus he is probally a bi-polar freak who sits home and thinks of such utter crap to pass on to fools that beleive and uncover such OBVIOUS conspiracies that no one else seems to entertain.

SO lets have some fun...see if you morons can answer one VERY VERY easy question...watch how COMMON SENSE debunks your theories.

Here we go (or shall i say "Let's Roll")

(QUESTION)
If there was a conspiracy involved (cough bullshit cough) and Bush and his pals secretly orchestrated the biggest terror act of all time with secret explosives and hidden planes and whatever crap you retards (which you are) come up with to explain away your theories.....well why is that it was so friggen hard for Bush and his wacky clan to stash some VX nerve gas, some warheads or some other WMD in Husseins backyard in a bunker and then exclaim "AH HA WE TOLD U THERE WAS WMD"?....but no wait "THAT" would be to hard of a plan to do...bringing down 2 towers in NYC and penetrating the Pentagon is childs play compared to planting some WMD in the friggen desert hundreds of miles away from anyones sight...dumbasses...see how silly it seems already?

quote:

Originally posted by ali92 Oh please... The planes didn't make the towers fall so 'perfectly' in NINE POINT TWO seconds! It looks like a controlled demilition covered up by them planes that crashed into the towers prior...

Show me ONE just ONE video or photo of ANY planned demolition that shows the building falling outwards and not inwards.

Matter fact...lets play common sense with you as well.

Answer me this butter cup....

Where did the planned/controlled explosives come from? Surely the quanity was enormous and had to be taken from somewhere thaqt keeps and inventory of such things. Now surely that man (but probally dozens of people) realized all that explosive was gone...how did they keep silent all these years?

How about this...who planted the explosvies? Was there reports of people walking around with all of it planting it under peoples desks? Wait i forgot they did it in the middle of the night...lol

So lets make a short list of all the people who have knowledge of this huge cover up

1. George Bush
2. Rumsfield
3. Rice
4. Powell
5. The dozens of men who keep inventory of such highly dangerous explosives
6. The numerous men who set them up
7. The men who set them off

Thats a small list for you...now i can see keepign the big guys silent..but no chance those little guys wouldnt jump at the chance to tell their story and make millions uncovering the biggest crime against ones own nation. COMMON SENSE.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Years later officially no weapons are found and the exit strategy keeps changing from finding the weapons, deposing Saddam, quelling and insurgency to install a US friendly government.

People like you really scare me and after i meet someone like yourself i feel compelled to wash my hands.

YOU...yes YOU...beleive Bush and his crew had part in the 9.11 attacks but dont think it would of been childs play to plant some WMD in the desert? Do you see how flawed you are?

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Now I am not suggesting this whole thing is a conspiracy, but in this Pentagon movie, you will see there is NO PLANE. Where did an aircraft the size of 50(?) metres dissapear to. No wings, No Rolls Royce engines, No Fuselage...

It is not uncommon for planes to be reduced to confetti after such hard impacts...just look at the plane that went down in Pennsylvania

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 There is no republican/democratic conspiracy. There is no conspiracy at all if all the events were laid out right in the open for everyone to see. There are 9/11 victims and families that don't buy into the official findings. Are they conspiracy theorists? Obviously not.

HHHmmmm...here is one for you...you like common sense?

If everyone knows how come Al Jazeera isnt blasting this all over their airwaves? Surley they would LOVE to expose the Bush administration of its crime...but they dont...why is that? are they in bed with mrs Bush?

Oh..and why isnt Osama and his little crew not ranting about how Bush and Rumsfield went ape shit on its own people and blamed Osama?

Surely Hussein would be pissed off about being caught in the middle..yet no words from him either...

And lets not forget the beloved BBC who would shit in their pants to expose Bush.

But nothing...you people have absolutley NOTHING said from anyone who is taking the rap on this shit...all you have is wack jobs making web pages and monkey dust theories.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Yeah the building is reinforced, that's why when the plane hit the wings at the very least would have shawn off, or the engines would have been left behind or something! But no, no debris at all. Even in New York one of the engines fell to the ground when the plane hit.

you are so pissed there is no debrie at the Pentagon arent you? And you keep talking about wings...well where are the wings from the WTC planes or the wings from the Pennsylvania plane? Why MUST the Pentagon plane have its wings intact when it hit harder surfaces then any of the others...they friggen turned to confetti so move on.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e my point I am making is what happend to the aircraft. Boeing 757 is not a small aircraft. It wont just disintergrate on impact

forget the aircraft..what happened to the people on board?

If you people buy into this whole drone plane or missile theory and the plane never hit the bulding please think for a moment.

There were dozens of people on that plane...all had families that lost loves ones...are you implying that the Bush administration didnt crash that plane but used a missile or drone and then took the plane with passengers and killed them in cold blood? WOW sick.

OK but what about the company that owned that plane? Arent they pissed that the gov took their plane for this?

think of all the people who would have to keep silent for this to happen...common sense again.

1. The airline company (many people would notice a missing plane)
2. The air traffic controllers would see the plane didnt crash but kept flying and landed somewhere else (where CIA agents killed the people)
3. The people on the ground who saw the plane fly past the pentagon for some miles to land somewhere else. Surely people noticed a low flying 757 over Washington DC during the morning of 9.11
4. All the people at the runway they landed the plane

see that is a fast short list...imagine if we REALLY thought about the people that would have to be kept silent...too many to count..and too many to keep silent...and too little common sense.

Oh and Jimmy Hoffa killed JFK after getting a blow job from Jackie O.

At first I thought; "Oh god, which nut-job bumped this goddamn thread again"..........but then I read your post Tiesto. Classic.

Bravo.

OMG, those are all very easy questions to answer!!! I might answer this if have some time.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 (QUESTION) If there was a conspiracy involved (cough bullshit cough) and Bush and his pals secretly orchestrated the biggest terror act of all time with secret explosives and hidden planes and whatever crap you retards (which you are) come up with to explain away your theories.....well why is that it was so friggen hard for Bush and his wacky clan to stash some VX nerve gas, some warheads or some other WMD in Husseins backyard in a bunker and then exclaim "AH HA WE TOLD U THERE WAS WMD"?....but no wait "THAT" would be to hard of a plan to do...bringing down 2 towers in NYC and penetrating the Pentagon is childs play compared to planting some WMD in the friggen desert hundreds of miles away from anyones sight...dumbasses...see how silly it seems already?

Why go to the trouble just to get credability? After all thats all it would achieve, as the invasion of Iraq had already taken place for what ever reason people want to think it was for.
Planting WMD would just have meant they could do exactly as you have suggested and say told you so.

quote:

Show me ONE just ONE video or photo of ANY planned demolition that shows the building falling outwards and not inwards.

I dont subscribe to this, but if it was a planned demoliton, falling in or out makes no difference as it could have been designed to fall out. Besides the reason a building falls in is becasue the detonations occur in stages to weaken the inner structure of a building first causing it to collpase inward for safety reasons.
if all detonations occured at the same time, the building would not fall in on itself.

quote:

Where did the planned/controlled explosives come from? Surely the quanity was enormous and had to be taken from somewhere thaqt keeps and inventory of such things. Now surely that man (but probally dozens of people) realized all that explosive was gone...how did they keep silent all these years?

it's not like they would go out and buy it...
Only the top X number of florrs would need to collapes to 'crush' the structure below it. But like I said I don't subscribe to this.

quote:

you are so pissed there is no debrie at the Pentagon arent you? And you keep talking about wings...well where are the wings from the WTC planes or the wings from the Pennsylvania plane? Why MUST the Pentagon plane have its wings intact when it hit harder surfaces then any of the others...they friggen turned to confetti so move on.

Pissed? not in the slightest, I couldnt care less. I do however believe in the fact that there would be debris of the aircraft. Maybe the govt has just been able to withhold any of the photos that would indicate an engine or something else which would not turn to dust. The nature of the engine is components which are able to withstand severe impact, and heat, especially should one blow up in mid air. Imagine the consequences if it could not. there is no way it could just disintergrate.

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 (QUESTION) If there was a conspiracy involved (cough bullshit cough) and Bush and his pals secretly orchestrated the biggest terror act of all time with secret explosives and hidden planes and whatever crap you retards (which you are) come up with to explain away your theories.....well why is that it was so friggen hard for Bush and his wacky clan to stash some VX nerve gas, some warheads or some other WMD in Husseins backyard in a bunker and then exclaim "AH HA WE TOLD U THERE WAS WMD"?....but no wait "THAT" would be to hard of a plan to do...bringing down 2 towers in NYC and penetrating the Pentagon is childs play compared to planting some WMD in the friggen desert hundreds of miles away from anyones sight...dumbasses...see how silly it seems already?

Why go to the trouble just to get credability? After all thats all it would achieve, as the invasion of Iraq had already taken place for what ever reason people want to think it was for.
Planting WMD would just have meant they could do exactly as you have suggested and say told you so.

quote:

Show me ONE just ONE video or photo of ANY planned demolition that shows the building falling outwards and not inwards.

I dont subscribe to this, but if it was a planned demoliton, falling in or out makes no difference as it could have been designed to fall out. Besides the reason a building falls in is becasue the detonations occur in stages to weaken the inner structure of a building first causing it to collpase inward for safety reasons.
if all detonations occured at the same time, the building would not fall in on itself.

quote:

Where did the planned/controlled explosives come from? Surely the quanity was enormous and had to be taken from somewhere thaqt keeps and inventory of such things. Now surely that man (but probally dozens of people) realized all that explosive was gone...how did they keep silent all these years?

it's not like they would go out and buy it...
Only the top X number of florrs would need to collapes to 'crush' the structure below it. But like I said I don't subscribe to this.

quote:

you are so pissed there is no debrie at the Pentagon arent you? And you keep talking about wings...well where are the wings from the WTC planes or the wings from the Pennsylvania plane? Why MUST the Pentagon plane have its wings intact when it hit harder surfaces then any of the others...they friggen turned to confetti so move on.

Pissed? not in the slightest, I couldnt care less. I do however believe in the fact that there would be debris of the aircraft. Maybe the govt has just been able to withhold any of the photos that would indicate an engine or something else which would not turn to dust. The nature of the engine is components which are able to withstand severe impact, and heat, especially should one blow up in mid air. Imagine the consequences if it could not. there is no way it could just disintergrate.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Why go to the trouble just to get credability? After all thats all it would achieve, as the invasion of Iraq had already taken place for what ever reason people want to think it was for. Planting WMD would just have meant they could do exactly as you have suggested and say told you so.

HA HA HA HA...so then what was the reason for orchestrating 9.11 in the first place? Most conspiracy theorists come up with their theories because they claim Bush and his crew was involved to plant themselves in Iraq...so if they went trhough all the work on doing 9.11 just to get to Iraq why not plant a WMD there.

Do you even read the thoughts behind these conspiracy theories? Or just read 4 lines and make you opinion up?

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e I dont subscribe to this, but if it was a planned demoliton, falling in or out makes no difference as it could have been designed to fall out. Besides the reason a building falls in is becasue the detonations occur in stages to weaken the inner structure of a building first causing it to collpase inward for safety reasons. if all detonations occured at the same time, the building would not fall in on itself.

I didnt ask for your diagnosis...i asked for a video or photo...till you can provide one your, or whoesever it is, is bunk.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e it's not like they would go out and buy it... Only the top X number of florrs would need to collapes to 'crush' the structure below it. But like I said I don't subscribe to this..

Doesnt matter if they have to buy it or not...someone still keeps inventory on weapons in the military...in fact many many people do. Surely you cant keep all those nobodies silent.

Oh and yes they do buy it...parts and materials dont come from no where.

quote:

Originally posted by skot_e Pissed? not in the slightest, I couldnt care less. I do however believe in the fact that there would be debris of the aircraft. Maybe the govt has just been able to withhold any of the photos that would indicate an engine or something else which would not turn to dust. The nature of the engine is components which are able to withstand severe impact, and heat, especially should one blow up in mid air. Imagine the consequences if it could not. there is no way it could just disintergrate.

No way it could disintergrate? Have you seens the phots from the Pennsylvania crash? no wings there either...because it crashed at such high speeds into something so strong that it turned to confetti.

Then what do u think it was a missile? a drone plane? FIne i will entertain that...but what of tghe passengers of the original plane? The air traffick controllers? the people seeing the plane fly buy?
Answer that and maybe you have something cooking...but thats the problem with conspiracy theorists like yourself...you FAIL time and time again to explain away the common sense aspects of the whole thing. All you say is wheres the plane parts and dismiss all the evidence against your theory. Such nonsense and waste of time.

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