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-- 'No God' Ads, Soon To Appear On TTC Vehicles, Spark Heated Debate
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I don't believe in God so I like the message. It provokes conversation too. I don't mind religious folk, I just hate it when they believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. Open minds ppl.
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| Originally posted by Intangible No. I would have a problem with that. Its such a scolding tone. It feels like the ad is forcing ideas onto readers. This new ad is different. It creates thought and conversation without forcing an idea. If other ads said "if you dont believe you may be a sinner" or "are you a sinner" then I would be fine with it. |
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| Originally posted by evil_cookie I was a little hesitant to post here after my initial little approval, but I feel compelled to point out a few things. First, you can certainly exercise your freedom of religion; however, we also have the right to freedom from religion. Second, religious belief or lack there of, is private--so keep your delusions to yourself. I completely respect your privacy to practice whatever the hell is you want to practice--as far as faith is concerned--but that�s not enough is it? Religious people feel obliged to somehow try to justify their beliefs and/or impose them on to others. It is as if it�s not enough that they themselves believe it, nope, I have to belief it as well. Please spare us your quotes from your holy books--keep them to yourself. I have no problem with individuals and their private beliefs. The overwhelming and growing problem with religion is that it is the exact opposite--you're wrong, I'm right, my God is true, your God is false, I will be in heaven, and you will burn in hell. I can literally give you hundreds of books to read on this, but to save time, all I ask is that we examine the past and the present affairs of religion in causing global scale conflicts. I'll give you an example close to home. In June of 2003 President George Bush said to the Palestinian leaders in an interview that God told him to attack Iraq. It�s amazing really--if you are so confident of your convictions, why not just be happy that you�re going to prosper in the afterlife, and just let everybody else live their own lives. Why are you people so upset about these posters? Does your God cease to suddenly exist because a poster was printed? Is your God so insecure or are you that insecure about your faith? Hell, even if the poster said �There is no God,� you are still being absolutely stupid to get upset over it. As the same principle applies: are your convictions so fragile that they�re disturbed by an alternative point of view? And that�s all this is, is an alternative way of looking at life. Yohan, you are completely wrong on this. I think it's important to note the difference between providing information and giving information. I am all for providing a child with the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, a physics text book, a philosophy book etc... and allowing the child to come to a conclusion for him or herself. But when you label a child a Muslim child or a Christian child simply due to faith of their parents--that is forcing your ideas on a child--as the child is far too young to understand the concepts he is being labeled with, never mind being allowed to make the choice him or herself. And by comparing it to teaching your child to play hockey you�re trivializing the topic. That is, some religious teachings are directly contradictory to what we scientifically know--this is a fact. Even Francis Collins said in his book that we can only find God though faith and not evidence. Christianity, for instance teaches certain stuff about the creation of the universe, life and how we came to be that is simply not aligned with logic--these are facts Yohan. So when you raise a child from birth--FROM BIRTH--to have unquestioning faith to doctrines that the child CANNOT understand or evaluate at his age, that is indoctrination. However, as I�ve mentioned, if you give the child time to reach an age where he or she can evaluate and think for him or herself, I have no problem with providing that child with various different scientific or otherwise religious information on how, and why life is, the way it is. In respects to atheism supposedly portrayed as this innocent doctrine, I disagree and I think we have different understandings of faith and atheism or anti-theist like myself, someone who is scientifically inclined. Science does not need to be portrayed as an amoral, apathetic, or sometime cynical point of view; on the contrary, science takes great delight in attempting to answer intricate questions of life, and takes even more delight in hypothesizing what we have yet to unravel. It is a roller coaster ride--sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're wrong; science is always in a state of flux, scientists exult when they are proven wrong by other scientists, because that's all more motivation for them to work harder. In short, science is the study of the world, of life, of the unknown--and I much rather take pleasure in not knowing certain things, but rather having the confidence, that as we advance, we'll get a little closer to the answers; as opposed to having all supposed answers provided in holy scripture--doesn't leave much room for the imagination does it... Also, the aforementioned scientists and believer, American Geneticist Francis Collins makes his entire argument in defense of God based on two things: the counterintuitiveness of altruism in evolution via natural selection and the ambiguity and the origins of Moral Law. He argues that due to discrepancies in behavior in species, the current limitations of science, coupled with the assumption that altruism is counter-productive to evolution, God must be the figure who is responsible for our moral sense; or else he argues, we could not explain why species tend to be good--altruistic. What Collins fails to recognize, and indeed the majority of religious people, is that, first it is fallacious to invoke God simply because we have not yet found out how a particular principle or species operates. Secondly, there are brilliant alternatives that have an immense amount of evidence and consensus in the academic community. One alternative is kin selection. In short, kin selection displays how altruism and the evolutionary premise of propagating the species are complimentary principles. An example of this would be if one brother was to sacrifice himself in order to save his other brother--in this case, not only is one being altruistic but more importantly the genes which the brothers share are going to be passed on, therefore it is absolutely beneficial. In respects to moral law and ethics, likewise there are dozens of alternatives which are in practice and theory far more sound than the answers advocated by any faith based system. In particular Memetics theory--put forth by evolutionary biologist and renowned public intellectual Prof Richard Dawkins. Meme theory illustrates how culture and faith principles are biologically passed down from one generation to the next--a sort of advanced mechanism of heredity. Additionally, if you're not merely convinced by the evidence, then I'd say, (to borrow from Christopher Hitches,) that how insulting is it for people to tell you that the only reason you are doing good is because your actions are divinely governed? This is an absolute insult and complete disregard of our own, very much developed faculty of reason. In short: keep your private beliefs--private. |
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| Originally posted by daves If you are a believer (not even necessarily religious), this ad is an insult because it's like saying you are probably full of shit if you believe. |
This is a great movement by the FAC. It was about time that we stopped brainwashing our kids with religious mumbo jumbo but at the same time we have to teach them about morality outside the context of religions.
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| Originally posted by Skipper So be offended. I've been offended by the idea that I'm a sinner and will be punished in the afterlife for a very long time. Tit for tat. |
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| Originally posted by Skipper So be offended. I've been offended by the idea that I'm a sinner and will be punished in the afterlife for a very long time. Tit for tat. |
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| Originally posted by daves just a religion of non-religion at that rate. |
Re: 'No God' Ads, Soon To Appear On TTC Vehicles, Spark Heated Debate
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| Originally posted by dEsidEL many of the anti-religion supporters here may enjoy this one: source: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_31470.aspx |
I love this concept !!! Us athiests have to see, read and hear god supporting material on a regular basis. I love seeing this for a change !
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| Originally posted by Skipper I identify with the message that the ads convey. I can't say I was raised to believe there is no God - we just weren't a religious family. There was no church or prayers or any mention of a higher being. Even as an adult, I find religion confusing and it doesn't resonate with me at all. I don't feel compelled to change my behavior for fear of some after life consequences, and it's good to know that there are others who feel the same way. Sometimes it seems like everyone else is part of some kind of faith but you. |
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| Originally posted by Intangible No. I would have a problem with that. Its such a scolding tone. It feels like the ad is forcing ideas onto readers. |
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| Originally posted by daves If you are a believer (not even necessarily religious), this ad is an insult because it's like saying you are probably full of shit if you believe. There's nothing thought-provoking about a two-liner advertisement. What kinds of stimulating conversations can come out of the statement that there is probably no God? Does it try to provide any explanation? Does it offer anything at all really? This ad *is* pushing thoughts onto readers... it's not saying "do you disagree that there is a God? Let's talk further!". It would be like a religious ad telling non-believers "you are probably going to hell." |
I guess the problem I have with organized religions and the various theories they encompass is that they are largely subjective, but most people don't get the opportunity to consider them subjectively because they are ingrained by parents from the moment they are born. It is possible to raise your child with socially acceptable values and morals without raising them as a slave to ideals which may or may not be true.
Sure, educate your daughter on sexual education and the pros/cons of waiting until marriage, but don't tell her that one of the cons is that she's going to spend eternity in hell if she doesn't wait.
I have no problem with people's beliefs as long as they don't impose them on me...and I am thankful my parents never did that. They trusted me to grow up decently and didn't threaten me into doing so with the possibility of eternal damnation if I didn't.
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| Originally posted by daves What kinds of stimulating conversations can come out of the statement that there is probably no God? Does it try to provide any explanation? Does it offer anything at all really? |
if someone is raised in a faith, they can choose what their belief is as an adult. parents will be upset but will live with it.
on the other hand, if someone is raised with no beliefs, then its hard to say "hey listen..there's a supreme being called God...we practice this faith...you should try it"
most of you that are bitching about religious people, as many of you have mentioned, were never told about the possibility of the existence of God and would never dream about joining a faith anytime in your life...just think about it...
this is the reason you bitch at those who have faith
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| Originally posted by El K Dee if someone is raised in a faith, they can choose what their belief is as an adult. parents will be upset but will live with it. on the other hand, if someone is raised with no beliefs, then its hard to say "hey listen..there's a supreme being called God...we practice this faith...you should try it" most of you that are bitching about religious people, as many of you have mentioned, were never told about the possibility of the existence of God and would never dream about joining a faith anytime in your life...just think about it... this is the reason you bitch at those who have faith |
On the TTC right now, and behold a religious ad.
The Christmas story brought to you by the willowdale Pentecostal church.
"...the zeal of the lord will accomplish this" in reference to peace on earth.
Didn't take long to come across that now did it?
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| Originally posted by Rodrico To be honest, I dont mind the big guy up there, I just hate all his fanclubs. |
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| Originally posted by Yohan ... people believe in God or Jesus or Allah or whoever because it makes logical sense to them, based upon their experience... |
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| Originally posted by evil_cookie I think it's important to note the difference between providing information and giving information. I am all for providing a child with the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, a physics text book, a philosophy book etc... and allowing the child to come to a conclusion for him or herself. But when you label a child a Muslim child or a Christian child simply due to faith of their parents--that is forcing your ideas on a child--as the child is far too young to understand the concepts he is being labeled with, never mind being allowed to make the choice him or herself. And by comparing it to teaching your child to play hockey you�re trivializing the topic. That is, some religious teachings are directly contradictory to what we scientifically know--this is a fact. Even Francis Collins said in his book that we can only find God though faith and not evidence. Christianity, for instance teaches certain stuff about the creation of the universe, life and how we came to be that is simply not aligned with logic--these are facts Yohan. So when you raise a child from birth--FROM BIRTH--to have unquestioning faith to doctrines that the child CANNOT understand or evaluate at his age, that is indoctrination. However, as I�ve mentioned, if you give the child time to reach an age where he or she can evaluate and think for him or herself, I have no problem with providing that child with various different scientific or otherwise religious information on how, and why life is, the way it is. |
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| Originally posted by FunkyCrew what? how is it scodling? and how is it forcing anything? I have a feeling you misread it the world "probably" itself is inviting for people to think about it and question it |
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| Originally posted by Intangible I was talking about jayx1's "if you dont believe you are a sinner" |
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| Originally posted by El K Dee 1) if someone is raised in a faith, they can choose what their belief is as an adult. parents will be upset but will live with it. on the other hand, 2) if someone is raised with no beliefs, then its hard to say "hey listen..there's a supreme being called God...we practice this faith...you should try it" 3) most of you that are bitching about religious people, as many of you have mentioned, were never told about the possibility of the existence of God and would never dream about joining a faith anytime in your life...just think about it... 4) this is the reason you bitch at those who have faith |
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Originally posted by jon jon  |
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| Originally posted by El K Dee if someone is raised in a faith, they can choose what their belief is as an adult. parents will be upset but will live with it. on the other hand, if someone is raised with no beliefs, then its hard to say "hey listen..there's a supreme being called God...we practice this faith...you should try it" most of you that are bitching about religious people, as many of you have mentioned, were never told about the possibility of the existence of God and would never dream about joining a faith anytime in your life...just think about it... this is the reason you bitch at those who have faith |
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| Originally posted by El K Dee on the other hand, if someone is raised with no beliefs, then its hard to say "hey listen..there's a supreme being called God...we practice this faith...you should try it" |
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