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-- Stimulus Bill
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quote:

Originally posted by HotDogWater rather we got into this mess largely because of the irresponsible ones.

True, but it is in fact effecting reponsible homeowners at this point, regardless of who got us into the mess. They should recieve help. It isnt their fault the home market has been completly wrecked by the irresponsible sub prime loans.

quote:

Originally posted by CND Wall Street Journal editorial that summarizes many of my (conservative) concerns. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123440436240475615.html

careful, that could get you a neo-conservitive, palin-limbaugh supporting, fox news, republican pundit cheerleader brand around here.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen True, but it is in fact effecting reponsible homeowners at this point, regardless of who got us into the mess. They should recieve help. It isnt their fault the home market has been completly wrecked by the irresponsible sub prime loans.

That's quite the socialist take on the subject

Current homeowners who can afford their mortgages (myself included) do not necessarily need the help. While they may not be able to sell their houses for a profit at this time, they have not really lost anything. A house is only worth as much as it is sold for, much like the prized baseball card collection gathering dust in your attic. If funds that were earmarked to help ALL with mortgages are diverted to helping only those who can't afford their mortgages, it will help the entire real estate market in the long run. Those shaky mortgages will gain solid footing, which means fewer homes will go into forclosure. This will stem the flooding of available housing on the market, which will in turn keep the pricing floor from dropping. Supply-and-demand comes to mind here.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I'm not some blind Democrat or Obama fan - it's just that so far he's had a few short weeks to sort out a mess that's took 8 years+ to create, and you've got to give him a chance.

That's the most hilarious thing I've read. All the Libtards like Starboy, R!ch, Clovis et al will shamelessly defend this pork-laden, losing bill out of their own masturbatory vanity and their pathetic sycophancy they hold for Obama like an 11 year old girl does for the Jonas Brothers. This bill is nothing more than a leap towards socialism and a strive (years in the making) for more power by the leftards who nowadays, seemingly are the masters of fear-mongering, sky is falling alarmists!

What is also funny is that the intellectually absent libtards here (R!ch, clovis, starboy...) cluelessly yet sadly hold an improvident world view about this all and most likely will suffer from it the most. You see, big-government libtards who look to it for their happiness and prosperity ultimately never realizes it. Thusly, they continue to bemoan over their trogdylitic lives in passive ways. Sad. But true.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen careful, that could get you a neo-conservitive, palin-limbaugh supporting, fox news, republican pundit cheerleader brand around here.

since you keep pressing the issue, i'll bite. it wasn't even a month ago you told us you're a registered republican, so you can quit telling me i came up with that on my own...

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen rich, starboy, thrax, who are you guys argueing with? Who here is argueing such things as "Obama is not reaching out to the miniority"? Or "republicans have to vote republican no matter what, cause they are registered republicans?" Im registered republican, and I voted for Al Gore in 2000, and Ralph Nadar in 2008. All Im saying is Obama and the democrats are not taking over the world. 4 short years ago the democrats were in bad shape. Power has been shifting for centuries between the two parties, and it will continue to shift. Super Obama isnt going to change that

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...3037&forumid=60

and i'm sure you've said it before in one of the election threads as well...

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen The thread was entitled "stimulus bill" because it was supposed to be based on the stimulus bill. The first post was an outline of some of the spending in the bill (Which is avail anywhere as it is of public record) not the article itself. not sure how many times i need to repeat that. I really made no reference to the article itself, the author, or the neo-conservitive site that I have never even visited.

Josh, your second post (on the 1st page of this thread) is copied directly from the article, prefaced with "Here is the article".
I can quote your second post if you really need reminding.

I know you called it "stimulus bill" to discuss the stimulus bill, but it wasn't just based on the stimulus bill - you posted a full and extremely biased article and then expect everyone to assume you don't agree with it or have contrary views?

What are we supposed think, seriously? I'm trying to understand.

quote:

Originally posted by T.A.S.D. That's the most hilarious thing I've read. All the Libtards like Starboy, R!ch, Clovis et al will shamelessly defend this pork-laden, losing bill out of their own masturbatory vanity and their pathetic sycophancy they hold for Obama like an 11 year old girl does for the Jonas Brothers. This bill is nothing more than a leap towards socialism and a strive (years in the making) for more power by the leftards who nowadays, seemingly are the masters of fear-mongering, sky is falling alarmists! What is also funny is that the intellectual absent libtards here (R!ch, clovis, starboy...) cluelessly yet sadly hold an improvident world view about this all and most likely will suffer the most. You see, big-government libtards who look to it for their happiness prosperity ultimately never realizes it. Thusly, they continue to bemoan over their trogdylitic lives in passive ways. Sad. But true.

Please put down the thesaurus for a minute and consider whether you're adding anything constructive to this thread...

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Scott That's quite the socialist take on the subject Current homeowners who can afford their mortgages (myself included) do not necessarily need the help.

When you lose 100k in equity on your first purchased home in the first 12 months, and your current job is now in jeopardy because of the shrinking economy, if you are not eligible for assitance then I am not sure who should be.

We cant just go as far as to say they just bought at a bad time in the market because so many others are to blame for ruining the housing market, government officials (barney frank) included.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH since you keep pressing the issue, i'll bite. it wasn't even a month ago you told us you're a registered republican, so you can quit telling me i came up with that on my own... http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...3037&forumid=60 and i'm sure you've said it before in one of the election threads as well...

I already called him out on that a couple pages back and this was his response

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen yep its true, Im now a registered independant. I was registered as a republican when i voted for Al Gore in 2000, that was the point of the post.

It is all good though, T.A.R.D has come to his rescue.

quote:

Originally posted by T.A.S.D. That's the most hilarious thing I've read. All the Libtards like Starboy, R!ch, Clovis et al will shamelessly defend this pork-laden, losing bill out of their own masturbatory vanity and their pathetic sycophancy they hold for Obama like an 11 year old girl does for the Jonas Brothers. This bill is nothing more than a leap towards socialism and a strive (years in the making) for more power by the leftards who nowadays, seemingly are the masters of fear-mongering, sky is falling alarmists! What is also funny is that the intellectually absent libtards here (R!ch, clovis, starboy...) cluelessly yet sadly hold an improvident world view about this all and most likely will suffer from it the most. You see, big-government libtards who look to it for their happiness prosperity ultimately never realizes it. Thusly, they continue to bemoan over their trogdylitic lives in passive ways. Sad. But true.

whatever josh

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH since you keep pressing the issue, i'll bite. it wasn't even a month ago you told us you're a registered republican, so you can quit telling me i came up with that on my own...

Since your so concerned, I was register republican when i first registered in 2000. And I just never felt the need to change that until the recent election a couple months ago. The theme has been, that shouldnt matter anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH whatever josh

honestly, i couldnt come up with it if i tried.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen When you lose 100k in equity on your first purchased home in the first 12 months, and your current job is now in jeopardy because of the shrinking economy, if you are not eligible for assitance then I am not sure who should be. We cant just go as far as to say they just bought at a bad time in the market because so many others are to blame for ruining the housing market, government officials (barney frank) included.

The job losses will hurt the ability of responsible homeowners, but loss of equity should have nothing to do with it. You can still live in that house, and it's still worth what YOU we're willing to pay for it.
Property as with all other assets or investments is a gamble, and you have to be a fool to think it will always go up.

If you look at a graph of defualts vs. equity percentage, it shows clearly that people who bought houses they could never afford with nothing or very small deposits are in trouble, not the people who who got in to sensible mortgages or had normal deposits.

Go back just 25 years - it was unheard of to buy a house without at least a 15% deposit - most cases 20-25%.

If everyone had done that, they could in a worst case scenario, release the equity up to the value of their deposit to cover their mortgage for a year or so if they fall on hard time. Not great, but better than losing your home,

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Scott This will stem the flooding of available housing on the market, which will in turn keep the pricing floor from dropping. Supply-and-demand comes to mind here.

Just what we need now, even less housing affordability. The one good thing that's coming of this mess is that the housing affordability index is improving, especially in places like California. Once you have affordable housing people won't NEED those ridiculous loans to get a home in the first place.

There's a difference between people not being able to afford their home because of the shrinking economy and those that got a low interest rate loan with the expectation that their home value would continue to decrease. I don't think the taxpayers should be punished for the latter. One of the fundamental investment rules is that gain is proportional to risk, and now that the risk has bit them in the ass they seem to expect the government to fix it.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN The job losses will hurt the ability of responsible homeowners, but loss of equity should have nothing to do with it. You can still live in that house, and it's still worth what YOU we're willing to pay for it.

The house market bubble is a large part of the problem, people were under the assumption they were building their retirement in their equity on their home over the past decade, now its gone and there jobs are in jepeordy largely because congress released restrictions on loans and inflated home prices enormously now that anybody could get a home.

And you are so wrong, houses are not worth what YOU were willing to pay for it, When the value drops 100k in value in 12 months. Yea you can wait it out, and hope for the value to rise, if you still have your job.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy I already called him out on that a couple pages back and this was his response

Nitpicking (a true and typical libtard trait) over what the hell Josh's registration is has no relevance (libtards have no relevance) in the matter that this bill will FAIL and is simply Obama's way of vying for re-election already by "paying back" his supporters since he himself is realizing this early that his term will be singular.

The bill has in it, a tax cut for Hollywood studios. Blatant. Pelosi gets to protect her rat. Reid gets a rail to Vegas, although Vegas isn't too fond of Obama these days. Minnesota gets an ATV park. Brilliant.

Massive spending didn't work for Japan in the 90's; never worked in the past; won't work for us. Was it that old geezer McCain who called the bill "Generational Theft?" Free market Capitalism, fiscal conservatism, individual liberty to pursue and create opportunities unhindered by big and socialistic government is the answer.

No worries, DJ Rann and R!ch will continue to longingly showcase their libtardism with their incessant defense of this preposterousness. This is evident in the belief system held by R!ch that one should have the constitutional right to commit suicide, irresponsibly take drugs and have an abortion, and grandma shouldn't have a right to vote. The same R!ch who can't afford $30 dinners in Vegas and who even doesn't have a girlfriend. Or maybe no boyfriend either. So I've heard...

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen The house market bubble is a large part of the problem, people were under the assumption they were building their retirement in their equity on their home over the past decade, now its gone and there jobs are in jepeordy largely because congress released restrictions on loans and inflated home prices enormously now that anybody could get a home.

Firstly, BUSH deregulated the finance sector. Secondly, you have to be fucking stupid not to factor risk on the equation with the single biggest purchase of you life. Those that have, will ride it out and in 5-10 years be back where they were (or better) when they bought it, but they will have paid off a decent chunk of their mortgage and therefore get more money back of they sell or decide to release equity.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen And you are so wrong, houses are not worth what YOU were willing to pay for it, When the value drops 100k in value in 12 months. Yea you can wait it out, and hope for the value to rise, if you still have your job.

No, the house is worth what YOU were willing to pay for it - it's only if you try to sell it after the price has gone down that it's worth less to you - get what I mean?

If you stay in it, with the terms of the mortgage YOU chose, well then that's what it's worth to YOU.

quote:

Originally posted by T.A.S.D. Or maybe no boyfriend either.

keep dreaming. even if i was gay i wouldn't go for a guy in his 30s that still goes to raves (lol). i am flattered by your attempts to court me, but you're barking up the wrong tree. don't give up on love though, it's probably just one light show away!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN No, the house is worth what YOU were willing to pay for it - it's only if you try to sell it after the price has gone down that it's worth less to you - get what I mean? If you stay in it, with the terms of the mortgage YOU chose, well then that's what it's worth to YOU.

You just dont get it do you. If your job is now in jepeordy because of the failing economy, how do you ride it out for 5-10 years? This is why they need help, in order to do that. They cant sell, because they are all upside down 100k.

Its like unemployment benifits, but for those who actually pay taxes and own a home, get it?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Firstly, BUSH deregulated the finance sector.

you cant blame this on bush, as all the democrats so frequently do. democrats all pushed for deregulation on this as well over the past 10 years. The lobbyist won this one

But back to the housing problems & relaxed loan restrictions, those can be blamed on the legislation passed by democratic sen barny frank and his committe and their journey to give the american dream (a house) to all. Stated income, %0 down, %100+ LTV, are you kidding me? When will a democrats actaully own that one?

^

quote:

Originally posted by Sammy V I concur...I watch CNBC, Fox Business, Fox, and CNN every morning and on my days off. The only people supporting this bill are BRack supporters and those who will directly benefit from this bill.

That isn't true.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy ^

Bush shared the same stupid idea, he is guilty. But so are all of these democrats. We have a failure of government, not just of George Bush.


I encourage you to watch this cspan edit the entire way thru, then say its all bush's fault, die bush die.



republicans seeking regulation, democrats denying that



Ill throw this one in just for starkid

Nancy Pelosi is a retard.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen you cant blame this on bush

Yes you can, and i gave you an example. No where did i say no democrat should be blamed for the collapse. Here is a good time magazine list of 25 people to blame for the finacial crisis, bush came in #15 just behind madaff #9... ouch. I don't see pelosi or barny frank on that list.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/p...1878509,00.html

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