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yep it can happen but only if there's no physical attraction, if one or both parties is attracted to the other then it cant happen sorry

The B00b Maintenance Guy has spoken

*groan* I just wrote such a fabulous response and then the internet connection died because of a storm and erased it� ugggh I�ll try again. And lol at the fact that I�m always in this debate with someone in the c0r.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't want to imply anything because I don't know you guys like you know each other, being a COR outsider, but are you a particularly girly girl? Do guys hold little interest to you outside of attraction because you just aren't into "guy stuff"? Or do you have the more cynical view that guys and girls just inherently don't get on much without attract playing a role?

I don�t think anyone should be really labeled as one or the other, because we all have different tendencies. For example, I am a great housewife. I love hosting dinners, cocktail hours, ensuring everyone that visits me has something to eat and drink (even if it is just freshly baked muffins and coffee), and I generally am the mother figure and take care of everyone. I am very old fashioned � because that was the way I was raised. I take care of my hubby and my family above everything else.

However, that should not be misinterpreted that that is ALL that I am. In fact, I enjoy (and am good at) several �guy things� such as fishing, playing video games (I even give programmers a run for their money), going to the gun range, mixed martial arts � etc. I hold myself in a �proper� manner, but admittedly I get along better with men than I do women. Mainly because women are shady and backstabbing. The issue I am talking about is the respect factor � men and women can be sort of �friends� but there is almost always an underlying emotion from one of the two people. Simply because that person respects boundaries does not mean that it does not exist. In fact, those friendships can tend to be seen as �fraudulent� due to the fact that one of the two people involved might be clinging to the other person and being a �caring and good� friend, purely based on their emotions.

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Well that's the underlying question of this thread: is it a rule, or is just a tendency? The opinion seems split in this thread, and you have to ask if anyone has figured out the human mind or if they've just observed a lot of evidence. Ancedotes don't prove anything.

Of course the opinions in this thread are split. A lot of people are unable to step outside of their own shoes and into someone else�s. They are hold the mindset of �I think �A�, therefore, everyone else thinks �A� as well�. Simply because you (or I) do not have associated feelings for a particular friend, does not mean that that friend feels the same. [Oh, on a side note � has anyone heard of the phrase �denial�? Because even if you ask someone about their feelings point blank, they might have a fear of your reaction and deny any sort of feelings� but no, humans don�t lie, right?!] People are confusing respect for boundaries with �no feelings�. And I have discussed this topic with probably hundreds of people, and both men and women alike admit that with each and every friend they have, there have been feelings associated for one of the people involved, eventually.

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Well there's the weird thing. This girl is considered by most to be pretty attractive, but personally she doesn't do anything for me. So this throws up some possibilities. Am I like you, and even though I'm not attracted to her I still know she's seen as attractive, so I earn status by being seen with her? Or is it some sort of inverse, where she finds me attractive but I'm seen as being beneath her standards and so social pressure precludes her from making any moves?

By this girl, do you mean a friend or me, in particular? Because any sort of intarweb �friendship� does not apply here in this conversation � we�re discussing person to person friendships. And if you�re not talking about me (sorry, sometimes your posts are a little confusing) that�s a whole other topic of discussion. If it�s a friend of yours that is a girl, you have to realize that the possibility exists that she has feelings for you, although they are not reciprocated on your part. And if you�re asking why she has not made any moves � there are an abundance of reasons. For example: she has a boyfriend, you have a girlfriend, you are of a different race or culture, time constraints with work, past baggage from another relationship, perhaps a friend of hers has feelings for you so you have become �off limits�, she is planning on moving� etc. The list goes on forever.

In fact � I have had this discussion with my hubby on several occasions, and he used to be very quick to defend all of his �girl�friends. Over time, he has come to realize that I was, in fact, right � and that these girls would jump at the chance to be with him/sleep with him, if provided the opportunity. He also realized that for many, many of these girls, their intentions were not pure, and when he would go to them for �advice�, they would intentionally try to sabotage the relationship. These girls make going to �friends and family� dinners REALLY fun! Nothing more enjoyable than walking into a kitchen that has 3 or 4 girls in it, talking shit about someone they just met (me) and barely spoke to, for no reason other than I�m with my current significant other.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex It is a situational thing though. I have a friend that at first I wanted to bang, but soon lost interest in banging and we became best friends for quite a few years. Yes it was a girl. Only recently she was like "We should have banged". I was like "Maybe". Then we went back to watching Family Guy.

Case proven.

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Originally posted by squirrelly In fact � I have had this discussion with my hubby on several occasions, and he used to be very quick to defend all of his �girl�friends. Over time, he has come to realize that I was, in fact, right � and that these girls would jump at the chance to be with him/sleep with him, if provided the opportunity. He also realized that for many, many of these girls, their intentions were not pure, and when he would go to them for �advice�, they would intentionally try to sabotage the relationship. These girls make going to �friends and family� dinners REALLY fun! Nothing more enjoyable than walking into a kitchen that has 3 or 4 girls in it, talking shit about someone they just met (me) and barely spoke to, for no reason other than I�m with my current significant other. Case proven.

Finally someone who realizes it goes both ways and isn't just about guys wanting to fuck girls. We've already won because we have the cock.

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly I don�t think anyone should be really labeled as one or the other, because we all have different tendencies.

I agree- I wasn't implying a binary opposition, but rather a spectrum of "manliness" and "girliness". From my experience some people are extremely stereotypical in their interests, and so would have little in common with the opposite sex. Most of us lie in the middle ground somewhere.

quote:

The issue I am talking about is the respect factor � men and women can be sort of �friends� but there is almost always an underlying emotion from one of the two people. Simply because that person respects boundaries does not mean that it does not exist. In fact, those friendships can tend to be seen as �fraudulent� due to the fact that one of the two people involved might be clinging to the other person and being a �caring and good� friend, purely based on their emotions.

That "fraudulent" factor is what bothers me. It's a pretty depressing outlook on life, for me.

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By this girl, do you mean a friend or me, in particular? Because any sort of intarweb �friendship� does not apply here in this conversation � we�re discussing person to person friendships. And if you�re not talking about me (sorry, sometimes your posts are a little confusing) that�s a whole other topic of discussion.

I wasn't talking about you. I don't know you very well and since I don't post in the COR very often I don't really have any friends here. I'm only talking about person-to-person friendships here.

I'm also sorry if my posts are confusing, although I'm not sure why people are struggling to follow who I'm addressing. I tend to quote and answer several different people in one post, which might be it.

Apparently humans are genetically hardwired to go boning each other.

I find a lot of my female friends attractive.

What separates me from most others is that since I'm not an animal, I exercise self discipline.

So I don't go around boning my female friends.

And there is this risk-consequence thing. So I get one night of pleasure out of boning my friend. Is it worth the long term awkwardness in friendship, and possibility of losing her as a friend?

Hmmm.. I sound really gay there.

You are an animal, you're just awful at it.

If we analyze friendship for merely what it is, I think we can probably agree that the only reason we make "friends" in the first place is because we view the union or correspondence as being at least redemptively advantageous in some way. Even if you have some really shitty "friends", you only consider them your friends because of what you get out of them - whether that results in a net loss of some sort is irrelevant.

As Jenny said, if you are the type of person with a propensity for viewing the opposite sex as an object foremost, you are probably going to be in the "it's impossible" group.

But I would say it's completely possible to maintain a platonic friendship with the opposite sex over the course of an entire lifetime, relations never fully realized. But is this to say that in most cases, there is never a moment (at least on one side of the relationship) where there is at least some semblance of sexual attraction - realized or not? Well, my specific exemptions and diction can probably tell you what I think.

As Enigmatik said though - if there is ever a hint of attraction, it is foolish to think this can ever truly go away. It can be denied and ignored up and down forever, but the only sure thing about this argument - I would say - is that there really is no depth to which the human heart can conceal itself from that secret realm we all realize to be both latent and utterly natural.

I think a more interesting question would be: Is it possible to be nothing but friends throughout the course of a lifetime, even when there exists a sexual attraction (no matter the magnitude) never fully realized? Of course nobody here is at the end of their lives, fully capable of saying for sure, but I would say it's possible. Even more interesting still: Is it worth it?

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I think a more interesting question would be: Is it possible to be nothing but friends throughout the course of a lifetime, even when there exists a sexual attraction (no matter the magnitude) never fully realized? Of course nobody here is at the end of their lives, fully capable of saying for sure, but I would say it's possible. Even more interesting still: Is it worth it?

The way you worded your first question means that you recognize that there could be feelings from one person to another, just maybe not both simultaneously. If you are asking if two people would be able to practice self restraint until they die and never cross any boundaries - 50/50 chance. By no means was I implying that self restraint could not be practiced - it's the idea that all these friendships are considered "platonic" that I had issues agreeing with. imho, a friendship cannot be platonic if one has feelings for the other. BUT you did not word your question as "can two people stay platonic friends through the course of a lifetime", so I am happy.

Is it worth it to keep feelings aside to maintain a friendship? Depends on whether or not the other person is truly happy with their SO. If yes, then yes - worth keeping feelings to yourself but continuing on with the companionship of a friendship. If the other person seems miserable, take a chance and let them know that you're lusting to bang them. And then maybe try out a relationship if the shagging is good.

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly The way you worded your first question means that you recognize that there could be feelings from one person to another, just maybe not both simultaneously. If you are asking if two people would be able to practice self restraint until they die and never cross any boundaries - 50/50 chance. By no means was I implying that self restraint could not be practiced - it's the idea that all these friendships are considered "platonic" that I had issues agreeing with. imho, a friendship cannot be platonic if one has feelings for the other. BUT you did not word your question as "can two people stay platonic friends through the course of a lifetime", so I am happy. Is it worth it to keep feelings aside to maintain a friendship? Depends on whether or not the other person is truly happy with their SO. If yes, then yes - worth keeping feelings to yourself but continuing on with the companionship of a friendship. If the other person seems miserable, take a chance and let them know that you're lusting to bang them. And then maybe try out a relationship if the shagging is good.

totally agree, or just get horribly drunk and let the bad decisions begin!

quote:

Originally posted by squirrelly The way you worded your first question means that you recognize that there could be feelings from one person to another, just maybe not both simultaneously. If you are asking if two people would be able to practice self restraint until they die and never cross any boundaries - 50/50 chance. By no means was I implying that self restraint could not be practiced - it's the idea that all these friendships are considered "platonic" that I had issues agreeing with. imho, a friendship cannot be platonic if one has feelings for the other. BUT you did not word your question as "can two people stay platonic friends through the course of a lifetime", so I am happy.

I totally agree, "platonic" is being thrown around way too much. Plato was sort of a dickbag anyways, but that's beside the point...

quote:

Is it worth it to keep feelings aside to maintain a friendship? Depends on whether or not the other person is truly happy with their SO. If yes, then yes - worth keeping feelings to yourself but continuing on with the companionship of a friendship. If the other person seems miserable, take a chance and let them know that you're lusting to bang them. And then maybe try out a relationship if the shagging is good.

Though I personally completely agree with this approach, I think it's interesting to consider how one would be invalidating the feelings of a friend were you to utterly deny reciprocation. Of course it's not to be expected that you jump right into bed with any of your friends who express sexual attraction, regardless of your own feelings or circumstances, merely because they're your friend - but just the same, many friendships are completely lost once one blurts out their true feelings for the other. And this seems sort of unnecessary. We are each of us animals, and often at the whim of our biology - of course we can control our sexual escapades, but I do not think we can necessarily control just who our nature decides is a worthy candidate for our reproductive urges, and that this is an all-to underestimated factor when it comes to arguments like this.

I think where most people are probably getting hung up on this concept is in separating sex and love/companionship, because they really aren't necessarily the same thing. I mean, a friend coming out and telling you they want to fuck you is totally one thing - a friend coming out and saying they have loved you for years and want to spend the rest of their lives with you is understandably horrifying, especially when they are about a thousand rungs down your ladder.

As always though, there is no general rule to unify every situation here. Sexual attraction is utterly subjective (if we even have a choice in the matter), and "friendship" attraction is just as subjective, but on an antirely different level of consideration. When people cannot seperate these, irreconcilable problems will occurr - but if we have so little choice in the matter, where do we even begin saying there are "rules" to attraction and friendship?

jennypie version: UGG, UGG, SEXY FREND GUD, UGLY FREND NO GUD, NO SEXY

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I totally agree, "platonic" is being thrown around way too much. Plato was sort of a dickbag anyways, but that's beside the point... Though I personally completely agree with this approach, I think it's interesting to consider how one would be invalidating the feelings of a friend were you to utterly deny reciprocation. Of course it's not to be expected that you jump right into bed with any of your friends who express sexual attraction, regardless of your own feelings or circumstances, merely because they're your friend - but just the same, many friendships are completely lost once one blurts out their true feelings for the other. And this seems sort of unnecessary. We are each of us animals, and often at the whim of our biology - of course we can control our sexual escapades, but I do not think we can necessarily control just who our nature decides is a worthy candidate for our reproductive urges, and that this is an all-to underestimated factor when it comes to arguments like this. I think where most people are probably getting hung up on this concept is in separating sex and love/companionship, because they really aren't necessarily the same thing. I mean, a friend coming out and telling you they want to fuck you is totally one thing - a friend coming out and saying they have loved you for years and want to spend the rest of their lives with you is understandably horrifying, especially when they are about a thousand rungs down your ladder. As always though, there is no general rule to unify every situation here. Sexual attraction is utterly subjective (if we even have a choice in the matter), and "friendship" attraction is just as subjective, but on an antirely different level of consideration. When people cannot seperate these, irreconcilable problems will occurr - but if we have so little choice in the matter, where do we even begin saying there are "rules" to attraction and friendship? jennypie version: UGG, UGG, SEXY FREND GUD, UGLY FREND NO GUD, NO SEXY

See, but I think that was where I was going with my ramblings. Could you honestly say that it is a "true" friendship, if when feelings were expressed, one person or the other abandoned the friendship? Then that is not a true companionship and friendship. When a friend stopped and said to me "I have loved you for 13 years", I stopped, contemplated the idea of the two of us being together, and then decided from there that although he meant a lot to me, he did not possess the qualities of what I was looking for in a SO. I told him this, but insisted that although I was flattered, we stay friends. At this point he agreed and then within a month, I never heard from him again.

So would you consider this person a true friend? No - it was a fraudulent friendship. Same things goes for when Jamie said if a guy wanted to bone her she would say that everything was fine until that moment. Friendships are based on the premises that they are relationships, minus the sex. When someone is staying in a friendship while trying to maintain their feelings as dormant, how can one really say they are a true friend? You can't.

There are moments when "best friends" look at each other and say "oh my God! I have loved you all of this time!" and they end up trying out a relationship. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The "rules" are man-made, and the consequences the same.

if you are single, the girl is single, and there is sexual attraction why try and be friends?
































answer: because you are a pussy.

Well what constitutes a "true" friendship not only varies between person to person, but - I think - between the sexes. Given, there are exceptions to most every individual, but in general, men weigh the value of a friendship in terms of cost and benefit - as they do with most everything. If the cost exceeds the benefit, you're probably not much a friend, or at least not for much longer. Women are automatically more "beneficial" as friends to men in this respect, because they tend to start out with a more desireable biology (of course depending on your sexual preference).
Women however, tend to weigh their relationships based on an emotional leverage. It is both a simpler, yet more individually-refined process that determines who a woman befriends, and, as well, who she is willing to sleep with. But that is of course not to say that any side is better or worse than another - just different.

With that difference in mind though, is it much surprise that it so often doesn't pan out after first impressions have been processed? To men, both cost and benefit are liable to change along specific actions - a woman could become more beneficial should she consent to sexual relations... but a man does not necessarily and suddenly become more valuable to a woman should he want sex from her - if anything, he is threatening his image with her on a emotional level, and that isn't really beneficial to anybody.

As Astroboy said - it's completely possible, given the maturity level. I would add that as a people becomes more mature though, it's not only possible - it's probable.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak if you are single, the girl is single, and there is sexual attraction why try and be friends? answer: because you are a pussy.

or getting my dick wet is not a priority in my life

or i'm gay

or i'm a pussy

oh shit

You're a gay, dry-dicked pussy for not shitting where you eat, that's what you are!

Getting with someone that there is sexual attraction with has nothing to do with priorities. The only time that it eats up all of your time, is if the person in question has 0 interest in you.

The dynamics of attraction are pretty simple if it is shared attraction. Stop putting that shit on a pedestal.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak Getting with someone that there is sexual attraction with has nothing to do with priorities. The only time that it eats up all of your time, is if the person in question has 0 interest in you. The dynamics of attraction are pretty simple if it is shared attraction. Stop putting that shit on a pedestal.

This is the only sort of mature response that comes from experience, though. Not that you're not completely right.

I think it has a lot to do with the sexual retention in cultures. When you're young, it's somewhat of a taboo to let all of your feelings for a person out - and that isn't a completely unfounded phenomenon or anything, but when you are young (immature) you probably do not know quite what it is that you want in life, so it makes it all that much more difficult to face the prospect of rejection because it's that much more ambiguous.

Also, being an uggo doesn't help.

who is talking about feelings here?

i am talking only about a little squeak squeak yeehaw bang pop face pirate.

The people who stay virgins (unwillingly) into their late 20's and beyond, usually do so because they are completely inept at inter personal behaviors and have severe confidence issues. I am not calling yohan a virgin, but the excuses he used are textbook ones from these same people.

It is not a priority.

I have no time.

and so on.

all of these just translate into : I fear rejection.

Wait... there are virgins amongst us?

yeah i am, but only because of my religion.

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak Getting with someone that there is sexual attraction with has nothing to do with priorities. The only time that it eats up all of your time, is if the person in question has 0 interest in you. The dynamics of attraction are pretty simple if it is shared attraction. Stop putting that shit on a pedestal.

well said i agree

what about male-male friendships? how do i know if the other dude doesn't have alterior motives?

quote:

Originally posted by elFreak who is talking about feelings here? i am talking only about a little squeak squeak yeehaw bang pop face pirate. The people who stay virgins (unwillingly) into their late 20's and beyond, usually do so because they are completely inept at inter personal behaviors and have severe confidence issues. I am not calling yohan a virgin, but the excuses he used are textbook ones from these same people. It is not a priority. I have no time. and so on. all of these just translate into : I fear rejection.

or conservative bible thumping fundie christian? (or other wacky religious types)

that is why i added the unwillingly part.

I knew a guy who was a virgin at 27 years old. It had nothing to do with looks, some women showed interest. The guy was so socially inept that every time a woman expressed any interest in him, he would shut it down and become a total spazz. It was pretty funny, considering he was not shy in professional environments, and was pretty successful. The confidence issue only went to shit with women. It was pretty hilarious, considering that all interest sexually was always initiated by women.

we like to laugh at him sometimes, and always ask if he was raped as a child.

quote:

Originally posted by StanVoid what about male-male friendships? how do i know if the other dude doesn't have alterior motives?

LMFAO

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