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-- The Skool thread (how smart is TA?)
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Originally posted by Zild math and science are tougher and take more talent/creativity is my argument that doesn't have much to do with me being better than you or you getting a BS degree though

That's bullshit, there's no subjective view on that. Right up until you're actually doing research or writing text books, maths is rote learning whereby you copy formulas that other people have conceived before you and put them into practice. You're not making anything up yourself.

There's no way that's more creative than writing a poem or a 5000 word essay, which comes entirely from your head.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Why in the world would you get three Bachelor's degrees? If the Canadian system is anything like the United States', that would require 10+ years and only get you a raised eyebrow in a job interview. Do you mean that you had multiple majors, or are these abbreviated degrees?

English and French BAs were combined, and I started when I was 17. Finished both when I was 21. I could have gone straight for the MA in Translation, but I wanted the practical experience that is taught in the undergrad- I really needed it. I'm doing an accelerated version of the undergrad that will take me 2 years.

The economy is shit right now- I'm in no hurry to finish school.
I take occasional editing/translation contracts, I teach ESL in the summer, and during the year I work part-time in a hardware shop.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Ha, this genuinely amuses me since I've taken both Calc and Physics, and am currently in an Econ course that uses Calculus. Because I see absolutely no creativity at all at confronting a problem and deciding which equation plug numbers into. Now, if you're talking about A Beautiful Mind type shit, then maybe you've got something, but remember, John Nash was an economist.

I'm talking about getting an exam and looking at a problem and saying "hmm I have no idea how to solve this but someone figured out out before me so I can too" or getting to the point where you realize a problem can be solved in many different ways not just using the method your professor showed you in class. There is a point when you start to use all the math and science you were taught in school and then you want to learn more because it makes your job that much easier and gives you that much more power when attacking problems. It is a shame 99% of people never get to see that.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Okay, I'm interested here. Genuinely interested, not trying to be a pain or smart. Can you explain something practical that you learned in a management class which you later applied? You're obviously a very intelligent person and I'd be interested to see what influenced you so.

The main lesson I drew was how to effectively gather and coordinate information from staff. I had a staff of fifteen or so, and it was always a challenge to know what information I needed to know and what was irrelevant - the same with the information I needed to impart. A huge amount of time as a manager is spent communicating with staff. Going through a methodical practice of case analysis (what information is important to do my job? my employee's job?) proved to be an efficient allocation of my time, which allowed me to more efficiently delegate responsibilities. Using a uniform and objective approach allowed me to streamline things pretty quickly, and our team hit the ground running.

Without the prior coursework/training, my management strategy would have been largely trial and error, at which point my superior may have grown tired of waiting for me to find something that worked.

It's hard to explain, but the management course taught me to size up situations and staff in an environment that would have otherwise seemed unconstrained and messy.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So in your opinion objective learning is somehow more intellectual than subjective? That memorization of fact trumps abstract thinking in daily life?

On this, that's the cunt thing about humanities. I wrote some poetry which I didn't think was particularly good, and the teacher marked it well. Or the reverse can be true.

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Originally posted by Ania_xox English and French BAs were combined,

So it was one B.A. and two majors... my students make that mistake all the time too. An undergraduate degree is typically 120 credits, composed of major requirements, general curricular requirements, and electives. To get a second degree you would generally need an additional 120 credits on top of the first, unless your University cuts some corners and awards incomplete degrees. It's the same reason why someone can't receive a B.A. in Political Science and a B.S. in Economics even if they satisfy the requirements of both.

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Originally posted by Zild I'm talking about getting an exam and looking at a problem and saying "hmm I have no idea how to solve this but someone figured out out before me so I can too" or getting to the point where you realize a problem can be solved in many different ways not just using the method your professor showed you in class. There is a point when you start to use all the math and science you were taught in school and then you want to learn more because it makes your job that much easier and gives you that much more power when attacking problems. It is a shame 99% of people never get to see that.

That's not creativity. You're just choosing from a range of options or a combination of them.

No one wonder you don't understand social sciences, you don't even know the meaning of creativity.

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Originally posted by Zild Nope sorry. I actually do much better in classes that aren't science or math since they're so easy.

really? then why do you give the impression that your head is full of dingbat crazy nonsense like some of the regular PDD irritants?

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Originally posted by Domesticated On this, that's the cunt thing about humanities. I wrote some poetry which I didn't think was particularly good, and the teacher marked it well. Or the reverse can be true.

At my undergraduate institution nearly every Phi Beta Kappa was a math/science major, because under those grading schemes perfection is possible. Every single 4.0 was graded on an objective system where an A wasn't determined by how much you knew, but based on what you knew relative to your peers. In other words, in every test, someone received an A.

The thing about Social Sciences and Humanities is that subjective grading means professors don't have to give A's. In fact, many don't. I had numerous professors who allotted a finite amount of A-'s (3) per class per semester. A's were strictly on a "the professor could have written this paper" basis.

The amusing part was that the Humanities and Social Sciences outnumbered the Math/Science majors more than 2 to 1 in post-grad fellowships and research grants.

Aliens don't care about poetry or JR Tolkein. They want to see our space lasers and warp drives.

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Originally posted by Zild I'm talking about getting an exam and looking at a problem and saying "hmm I have no idea how to solve this but someone figured out out before me so I can too"

Obviously you didn't spend enough time studying if you couldn't remember the necessary equation.

BA - International Studies w/honors at Emory University.

Currently finishing up my 2nd of 3 years at University of Miami School of Law.

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Originally posted by SuspicionVandit Aliens don't care about poetry or JR Tolkein. They want to see our space lasers and warp drives.

Can't argue with that.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Obviously you didn't spend enough time studying if you couldn't remember the necessary equation.

...and I tell you why he's losing this argument with you? It's because he was only ever taught how to solve equations!

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Originally posted by Zild Nope sorry. I actually do much better in classes that aren't science or math since they're so easy.

Seriously, you're acting like a stuck up douchebag. Someone once told me that people who are really smart don't try to prove they are. Get over yourself.

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Originally posted by Domesticated ...and I tell you why he's losing this argument with you? It's because he was only ever taught how to solve equations!

I take his silence as indicative of the following thought process.

"I don't know how to win this argument. I have no idea how to solve this but someone has done it before so it must be possible... if only I can use my creativity to think of a way other than the one used in class by the professor."

Problem is, the assumption "someone has done it before" is in this case faulty.

By the way, about your management post, I didn't ignore that.

I read it and I understood what you were trying to say. Who knows, maybe management can be taught effectively. I more have an issue with the fact that people assume someone can manage or market at a company because they have a degree, which is not the case at all.

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Originally posted by Domesticated By the way, about your management post, I didn't ignore that. I read it and I understood what you were trying to say. Who knows, maybe management can be taught effectively. I more have an issue with the fact that people assume someone can manage or market at a company because they have a degree, which is not the case at all.

No, I agree that management can be an innate skill - my point was merely that intuition isn't the whole game. In fact, false confidence is problematic.

But the best managers emulate managers they've seen in practice rather than those they've read about, on that I think we agree.

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Originally posted by Zild Probably proves you actually learned something and can problem solve instead of bullshit your way through a degree.

Bullshit skills are useful if you think about it. Very applicable if you're in sales

Graduated with a Honours degree in Electrical Engineering in 2006. Have worked since then. I am now going to go back to school to get my MBA.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Obviously you didn't spend enough time studying if you couldn't remember the necessary equation.

If it is so easy to get a 4.0 in hard science then why do some of my classes have a drop/fail rate of over 70%? Why are there courses where people get As about once every year or two?

Vern is right about the bullshit skills for being a salesman though.

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Originally posted by Zild If it is so easy to get a 4.0 in hard science then why do some of my classes have a drop/fail rate of over 70%? Why are there courses where people get As about once every year or two? Vern is right about the bullshit skills for being a salesman though.

Your classes have a fail rate of 70% because they are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Your classes have a fail rate of 70% because they are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

So is bullshitting about women's suffrage. One is clearly easy the other is markedly difficult.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Your classes have a fail rate of 70% because they are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

+ it's the same people failing and passing every class (study skills being the common denominator)

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov + it's the same people failing and passing every class (study skills being the common denominator)

Ok so these people can take and get As in the same classes as future MDs but they lack the study skills to do quantum? I don't think so. I'm not talking about liberal arts students here I'm talking about people who flew through calculus, physics, organic chemistry, etc with no problems.

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict Graduated with a Honours degree in Electrical Engineering in 2006. Have worked since then. I am now going to go back to school to get my MBA.

Buddy of mine is doing extremely well with a BA in EE. He moved to Atlanta and after only 4 years he's head Engineer making 6 figs.

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