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-- any of yall have bipolar disorder?
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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Hell, sounds like it would have been a good target for the stimulus money - providing better healthcare + jobs = win.

One minute I want to kill you, the next I'm agreeing with you. WTF. I would have gladly seen the $50 million for the National Endowment of Arts and $726 million for an afterschool snack program in the stimulus bill go to funding new mental health care facilities.

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Originally posted by jennypie Just because drugs are often the catalyst for people with mental illnesses, it doesn't mean those people aren't still sick, dude.

yeah I know... but the word "exacerbate" comes to mind.

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Originally posted by The17sss Drug use/abuse is often a trigger to sending people over the edge and/or bringing out certain disorders that are lying dormant. Perhaps if they didn't go down that road by choice, they would be a hell of a lot less likely to commit the crimes that land them in jail (aside from the drug offense).

That�s akin to saying people that don�t wear seatbelts shouldn�t expect medical care after a car accident. Not to mention that I would hardly hold up the US� penal code as something to be emulated in the context of it being a fair yardstick for judging what is �right� or �wrong�. Its silly to argue that someone suffering schizophrenia should be put in prison because they �brought it on themselves� whereas another sufferer can go to a mental health institution because their schizophrenia was brought on completely drug-free.

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Originally posted by The17sss One minute I want to kill you, the next I'm agreeing with you. WTF.

i always agreed with lebez. Until I learned he was black AND Christian, and now its leaving a nasty taste in my mouth

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Originally posted by The17sss yeah I know... but the word "exacerbate" comes to mind.

That's irrelevant, why do you not get that? The issue at hand is America's supposedly poor care of mentally ill people.

It doesn't matter how they became mentally ill.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i always agreed with lebez. Until I learned he was black AND Christian, and now its leaving a nasty taste in my mouth

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Originally posted by The17sss yeah I know... but the word "exacerbate" comes to mind.

So? Lots of things exacerbate mental illness.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN That�s akin to saying people that don�t wear seatbelts shouldn�t expect medical care after a car accident. Not to mention that I would hardly hold up the US� penal code as something to be emulated in the context of it being a fair yardstick for judging what is �right� or �wrong�. Its silly to argue that someone suffering schizophrenia should be put in prison because they �brought it on themselves� whereas another sufferer can go to a mental health institution because their schizophrenia was brought on completely drug-free.

I'm speaking more along the lines of a schizophrenic who killed someone... not just some poor bastard who hears voices; I have never said that someone belongs in prison because of their mental illness alone. I'm talking about in combination with the level of crimes some of them committ.

Oh and FYI, substance abuse disorders are considered mental illnesses.

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Originally posted by jennypie Oh and FYI, substance abuse disorders are considered mental illnesses.

Right... I understand. More speficically, I was referring to people who's mental disorders were manifested because of their drug use/abuse when they had no previous history of mental illness... not a substance abuse disorder.

Man, those diagnoses are getting more and more detailed and complex with each DSM revision, aren't they?

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Originally posted by The17sss I'm speaking more along the lines of a schizophrenic who killed someone... not just some poor bastard who hears voices; I have never said that someone belongs in prison because of their mental illness alone. I'm talking about in combination with the level of crimes some of them committ.

But hospitals for the criminally insane ARE prisons. We�re not talking about letting them go or anything, just that they should be incarcerated in an institution that is best suited to treating their illness whilst also keeping them under lock and key and away from us non-drug-abusing pillars of the community.

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Originally posted by jennypie

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN But hospitals for the criminally insane ARE prisons. We�re not talking about letting them go or anything, just that they should be incarcerated in an institution that is best suited to treating their illness whilst also keeping them under lock and key and away from us non-drug-abusing pillars of the community.

I can't argue with that.

bipolar disorder sucks and definitely is real.. my grandmother had it and it got really bad one year (depressive episode?), she turned into a completely different hostile person and managed to turn the whole family against her.. she would have good and bad days, and it wasn't exacerbated by alcohol or anything, it seemed completely random. i'm sure a lot of people are misdiagnosed/use it as an excuse for being an asshole, but the real cases result in the person's personality switching drastically like someone pressed a switch in their brain.

with patience and support it can be managed... beautiful thing about it is it lets you focus on their good side. just like people with diseases like alzheimers, when you come to the realization that their negative disposition isn't anything personal you can still maintain a relationship with the person and help them get by. but unfortunately a lot of the cases estrange themselves from friends & family before this can happen and end up on the fringes of society, institutionalized, homeless or in prison.

if there is one disorder that's not forgivable though, it's the textbook narcissist.. they can die in one big fire

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Originally posted by DaRoZa if there is one disorder that's not forgivable though, it's the textbook narcissist.. they can die in one big fire

You rang?

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Originally posted by The17sss I know it said prison... she's arguing about how bad the prison care is, and gave financial numbers for it so I asked what she thought was appropriate to make matters better (even though there is a supreme court mandate for a standard of care I mentioned). I know it's cheaper to give care in private facilities but it also costs a lot to build them first, which wasn't mentioned; it's not like there are hundreds of alternative (to prison) care facilities sitting around with empty beds.

Contrary to what you typed, I am not arguing about how bad the prison care is. I simply do not think prison is the appropriate place to treat or care for mentally ill people. Some of these people could lead productive lives if given proper care, treatment, and/or medication.

You say it costs a lot to build hospitals to care for the ill. Again, excuse my ignorance but I don't see how it could cost more to build a hospital than it does to build a prison.

There were hospitals and programs, facilities to treat and care for (according to the one article) 600,000 sick people. Many were closed and discontinued. Now, your country has the ability to care for 40,000? Many of the mentally ill are homeless and in your prison population.

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I was specifically talking about those who's mental illnesses are manifested AFTER they partake in drug abuse... self induced.... NOT those who just have mental illnesses to begin with.

Most mental illness is not caused by drugs abuse.

It seems almost as if you're back pedaling here. You attacked me for saying your country doesn't do a good job of caring for it's mentally ill... we weren't talking specifically about people whose illness is caused by drug abuse, self induced. A person who has bipolar disorder doesn't get it from using illegal drugs.

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Dude, you're like a heat seeking missle to anything I write... butting your way into my conversations doing everything you can to try to get under my skin and argue the opposite of what I say. Go jerk off to your nobel prize winning literary collection you love to brag about and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY DISCUSSIONS! Don't talk to me, don't ask me any questions, don't try to interject your fucking opinions into my posts anymore. Just fucking FUCK OFF already. God!

Geez, you get really hateful with anyone who disagrees with you. It's okay to have and share different opinions.

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Originally posted by Echo of Silence Contrary to what you typed, I am not arguing about how bad the prison care is. I simply do not think prison is the appropriate place to treat or care for mentally ill people. Some of these people could lead productive lives if given proper care, treatment, and/or medication.

I agree with you to an extent... prison isn't the best option for everyone, and I've said that. On multiple occasions I've said that it's more about the crimes people commit that land them in prison to begin with; just because they have a mental illness doesn't mean they should automatically go to a mental health facility outside of prison, especially after the fact (depending on the severity of the crime). But again, I'll repeat- there is a Supreme Court mandate regarding the Constitutional rights of the mentally ill in prisons and the minimum standard of care they are to recieve in prisons, including psychotropic meds and therapy. If they or their families have a problem with it, they can take it to the courts. Tell me another country that guarantees rights like that. BTW- what country are you from and how is your country's care of the mentally ill superior to the US?

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You say it costs a lot to build hospitals to care for the ill. Again, excuse my ignorance but I don't see how it could cost more to build a hospital than it does to build a prison.

The point is, whether you want to build new prisons or new mental hospitals, they haven't been built yet... it's not a simple matter of transferring mentally ill prisoners to other empty exisiting facilities where they can get better care. When discussing the cost of treating the mentally ill in prisons vs. the better alternative of mental health facilities, you can't do so without mentioning the enormous cost to the taxpayer it will be to build them. That's all I'm saying.

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Most mental illness is not caused by drugs abuse. It seems almost as if you're back pedaling here. You attacked me for saying your country doesn't do a good job of caring for it's mentally ill... we weren't talking specifically about people whose illness is caused by drug abuse, self induced. A person who has bipolar disorder doesn't get it from using illegal drugs.

I never said most mental illness was caused by drug abuse... I was talking about how people who choose to break the law and use drugs (which is enough to land them in prison to begin with), and have perhaps previously unknown mental illnesses manifest as a result of their self-induced behavior should be given much less leniency from the law than someone in the general population with a mental illness that HASN'T committed any crimes. Should a person be able to choose to take PCP, then go berzerk and kill someone, then once in prison blame it on a mental illness that came from using PCP and get out of jail and into a minium security facility?

I'm not backpedaling at all... just trying to clear up the specifics that people may be misunderstanding. You made the claim that we don't take care of our mentally ill, as if we put them all in gulags chained to walls and hose them down if they get out of order. You can't just refer so vaguely to the "mentally ill" in prisons without discussing their crimes, how they get to prison, and what type of mental illness is in question because the range of what classifies as "mental illness" is enormous.

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Geez, you get really hateful with anyone who disagrees with you. It's okay to have and share different opinions.

Haha... most people on here know that's not typical of me. You definitely have no idea about the history between Lebezniatnikov and I. If you did, you'd understand where that came from.

Up here, where I live...people who commit crimes who have mental illnesses (i.e., cannot be held criminally responsible for their crime(s) ) do NOT go to prisons. They go to a maximum secure mental health facility. I did my mental health placement at the biggest one in our region.

You know that guy who beheaded the dude on the Greyhound? Yeah he was in the facility I did my placement at.

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Originally posted by jennypie Up here, where I live...people who commit crimes who have mental illnesses (i.e., cannot be held criminally responsible for their crime(s) ) do NOT go to prisons. They go to a maximum secure mental health facility. I did my mental health placement at the biggest one in our region. You know that guy who beheaded the dude on the Greyhound? Yeah he was in the facility I did my placement at.

shit. I wondered what happened to that guy. Did you see him in person?

No. Confidentiality issues prevented my mentors and staff from pointing people out in such a manner.


For real though I think I did see him, lol. Pretty sure we walked right by him when we did the tour.


They're in the middle of totally re-constructing the facility, but the old building was fucking creepy. The wards where the patients slept were really long narrow hallways, with rooms no bigger than a decent sized bathroom.



I worked with lots of really fucked up people. People who killed their family members, rapists, pedophiles. Really sick people man.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Up here, where I live...people who commit crimes who have mental illnesses (i.e., cannot be held criminally responsible for their crime(s) ) do NOT go to prisons. They go to a maximum secure mental health facility. I did my mental health placement at the biggest one in our region.

I'm confused now - I thought that was how it was here in the states, too? This thread had me all topsy turvy! Those who are declared mentally ill who commit crimes don't all go to prisons, they go to the mental wards, correct?

For "mental diseases" such as depression, I think that pills don't fix the problem - but can actually make it worse. Now, 1. that is just my opinion and 2. I'm not talking about bi-polar or schizophrenia.

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Originally posted by squirrelly For "mental diseases" such as depression, I think that pills don't fix the problem - but can actually make it worse. Now, 1. that is just my opinion and 2. I'm not talking about bi-polar or schizophrenia.

No, pills alone never "fix the problem." Depression, as all other mental illnesses, is a multi-dimensional disease that arises due to many contributing factors. Socio-economic status, past and present life stressors and subsequent coping mechanisms, family history, social supports, spiritual well being, etc., etc. All things have to be considered.

While I do agree that people are too quick to take pills and think it's going to solve everything, this same attitude has created even more stigma about taking medications...when a lot of the time they ARE necessary and extremely beneficial. Anti-depressants of today are not what they were 20 years ago.

Combination therapy is always the best route. People need to be empowered to take their health (mental health) into their own hands and take steps to learn how to be well - how to cope with the shit that life throws at them without just turning to pills. Medication or not, those problems will still be there.

Jamie was sort of right before...about a lot of the world's problems being caused by bad parenting - people just aren't being taught at an early age healthy coping mechanisms. Or they aren't growing up in environments that breed mental wellness.

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Originally posted by The17sss You definitely have no idea about the history between Lebezniatnikov and I. If you did, you'd understand where that came from.

Honestly, neither do I.

Re: Re: any of yall have bipolar disorder?

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Originally posted by Jason_R Haven�t read the whole post but I can relate to you. I have bipola type one and it's pretty much fucked my life. When ever I feel better and that things are going my way it will later transpire that I was just going high and it would have been obvious to everyone except me. People try to warn me but I won't have any of it and I normally end up hurting the people who care. Needless to say this leads to a sense of isolation and a very lonely existence. I've been disowned by my Mum my brothers and now my friends. I have a girlfriend of two years but I don't know how much more she can take. Only this evening I've flipped at her for absolutely no reason what so ever. It's not fair on her and to be honest my behaviours not fair on anyone. I always without fail bring pain and upset to almost every one I encounter. I feel like I have nothing to offer anyone. Well I'm here for you if you need to talk just pm me.

I feel you on the loneliness issue. I feel everyday is the same shit with no progression.

vince mcmahon: "life sucks and then you die!"


and to the other guy who recommended me rick warren's book, I bought it for 20 and I hope the 40 day thing pays off.

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