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While I agree with the majority of what has been covered, most people are over-looking what had a great deal of importantance in defining the rave culture that us elitists now deem non-existence: Drugs and good ones at that.

They were far more prevalent in the 90's and the use and abuse began to peak in the early 00's. It was a crucial part of making this magical atmosphere integrate with the people and the music. It allowed people to understand the music and the scene as a whole. It wasn't just a "scene", it was a culture, a way of life, a ritual. You were not just hearing something surreal, you felt it in its entirety. For all of you veterans out there you will know there was such intense positive energy that it seemed evident each person would reach nirvana at one point in time. The drugs have always been around and are most definitely here to stay but the bubble burst a long time ago. Kids don't want to have to be all hopped up on MDMA and Ecstasy all night long just to understand the origins of our "raveolution".

Each year that passes us by a new group of teenie boppers reach that legal age and are invited into this culture. You cannot be naive enough to believe things will stay constant each and every year. The only thing constant in this life is change and we as humans don't embrace it. Everyone has their "golden" years in life and if you had the opportunity to experience the EDM life from 1997-2004 then you should be more than thankful for what people will never ever get to experience again. Those memories and feelings simply cannot be recreated.

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Originally posted by Takayuki While I agree with the majority of what has been covered, most people are over-looking what had a great deal of importantance in defining the rave culture that us elitists now deem non-existence: Drugs and good ones at that. They were far more prevalent in the 90's and the use and abuse began to peak in the early 00's. It was a crucial part of making this magical atmosphere integrate with the people and the music. It allowed people to understand the music and the scene as a whole. It wasn't just a "scene", it was a culture, a way of life, a ritual. You were not just hearing something surreal, you felt it in its entirety. For all of you veterans out there you will know there was such intense positive energy that it seemed evident each person would reach nirvana at one point in time. The drugs have always been around and are most definitely here to stay but the bubble burst a long time ago. Kids don't want to have to be all hopped up on MDMA and Ecstasy all night long just to understand the origins of our "raveolution". Each year that passes us by a new group of teenie boppers reach that legal age and are invited into this culture. You cannot be naive enough to believe things will stay constant each and every year. The only thing constant in this life is change and we as humans don't embrace it. Everyone has their "golden" years in life and if you had the opportunity to experience the EDM life from 1997-2004 then you should be more than thankful for what people will never ever get to experience again. Those memories and feelings simply cannot be recreated.

I would argue that the use is rampant..the quality however is garbage...people are ingesting God knows what these days..

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Originally posted by gummybear I would argue that the use is rampant..the quality however is garbage...people are ingesting God knows what these days..

This comes back to my initial point "Drugs and good ones at that". We actually had clean sh!t back in the day which enhanced our experience far greater than we could imagine at that time. The drugs, the vibe and of course the music nowadays is reflective of how the EDM culture really is.

If you ever want an idea of how different things were just scroll to the bottom of the forums and choose the view all the threads from the beginning and go to the last few pages... lol

TOTA first ever roll call -> PvD @ Warehouse Feb 2001 + review

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Originally posted by Swamper If you ever want an idea of how different things were just scroll to the bottom of the forums and choose the view all the threads from the beginning and go to the last few pages... lol TOTA first ever roll call -> PvD @ Warehouse Feb 2001 + review

I remember that party, can't ever forget it. My first big name dj ever. SO GOOD!

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Originally posted by Takayuki You cannot be naive enough to believe things will stay constant each and every year. The only thing constant in this life is change and we as humans don't embrace it. Everyone has their "golden" years in life and if you had the opportunity to experience the EDM life from 1997-2004 then you should be more than thankful for what people will never ever get to experience again. Those memories and feelings simply cannot be recreated.

I haven't gotten much of a feeling that anyone here expected it to last. We've just been discussing the factors that made it change.

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Originally posted by Takayuki The drugs, the vibe and of course the music nowadays is reflective of how the EDM culture really is.

How it really is now.

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Originally posted by Takayuki The drugs, the vibe and of course the music nowadays is reflective of how the EDM culture really is.

Actually I would argue that any scene and the attitudes found within to drugs, fellow party goers, etc are a reflection of the current ideals in society.

Our dance music never contained ideals, it was the people who were popularizing it that did.

Hence the criticism every time any scene undergoes change. The core ideals and ideas often get left behind in any movement because as it gets popular it becomes easier to access.

You don't have to invest anything in order to enjoy it if it's right there, much less understand it.

Very few people go those extra steps for anything, much less music.

Look @ the difference in attitudes about pills now @ then. Stamps meant something regarding the contents & high, they were a conversation piece because it was new to society as a whole.

Production was also more limited so whenever batches travelled through town there was a moderate selection and people knew the flavours.

Now, they are just another tool in the battle against sleep with safety and quality rarely a thought. Ask someone what they dosed and watch the irritated and confused look on their face, followed by a mumbled "I dunno". (again, not a complaint mind you so much as an example. this isn't new information)

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Originally posted by The Highroller Another contributing factor is the popularization of techno.

If only it'd been proper *hard* techno that'd gotten popularized in Toronto.

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar If only it'd been proper *hard* techno that'd gotten popularized in Toronto.

Most people can't handle the intensity...


I LOVE IT!!!

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Originally posted by VDub Most people can't handle the intensity... I LOVE IT!!!

The driving intensity is what makes it brilliant!

Result!

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Originally posted by crazedcanuck Look @ the difference in attitudes about pills now @ then. Stamps meant something regarding the contents & high, they were a conversation piece because it was new to society as a whole. Production was also more limited so whenever batches travelled through town there was a moderate selection and people knew the flavours. Now, they are just another tool in the battle against sleep with safety and quality rarely a thought. Ask someone what they dosed and watch the irritated and confused look on their face, followed by a mumbled "I dunno". (again, not a complaint mind you so much as an example. this isn't new information)

THIS is so true.

Back then, the first thing you did was take out a lighter to see what the heck the stamp was or to confirm what it was. Most people I knew were walking encyclopedias on the subject. You knew what was out there and how strong it was. You NEVER took something that hadn't been tried and tested..unless you wanted to take one for the team.

i always wish i could've experienced the "good old days", and although it was before my time, i still enjoy going out just as bit as the first day i partied...

and as for the drug quality talk - heh. im not gonna deny the fact that drugs 10yrs ago were the cream of the crop, but if you cant find stuff just as good today then, well, your sources suck or you're not looking hard enough!

i've had bomb ass molly that will take you to town and back, and send you right back with a kick of the boot make your teeth chatter, eye jiggles that'd make u think you're on a loopty loop, walking on cloud 9 floating around and once its you've peaked, the euphoria is just pure intense bliss, love, happiness, PLUR...fuck pills, molly is where its at!! its what i was first introduced to and always prefered choice for party favours

having a trusted source and a pill testing kit is the insurance to back it up!

Nothing beats getting shit face wasted and then smoking a joint. Best buzz ever. Fuck pills.

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Originally posted by jennypie Nothing beats getting shit face wasted and then smoking a joint. Best buzz ever. Fuck pills.

Agreed... but i gotta say shrooms top any wasted+stoned vibe!

(though the whole drunk + stoned vibe is so excellent oh ya)

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Originally posted by jennypie Nothing beats getting shit face wasted and then smoking a joint. Best buzz ever. Fuck pills.

That's the thing with me Jen doll...

I take one haul and I'm under a table speaking in jibberish...

Can't handle the buuuud....

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Originally posted by jennypie Nothing beats getting shit face wasted and then smoking a joint. Best buzz ever. Fuck pills.

Never dropped once in the 11 years I've been partying.

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Originally posted by VDub That's the thing with me Jen doll... I take one haul and I'm under a table speaking in jibberish... Can't handle the buuuud....

me too. I had a really bad experiece after a brownie..my friends still tell every single person they meet the story..humiliating shit. Needless to say, i don't touch the stuff...doesn't agree with ..

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Originally posted by Swamper If you ever want an idea of how different things were just scroll to the bottom of the forums and choose the view all the threads from the beginning and go to the last few pages... lol TOTA first ever roll call -> PvD @ Warehouse Feb 2001 + review

HOLY SHIT! I went to that! I didnt even have a fucking computer when I went to that!! LOL

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Originally posted by PurpleHaze a pill testing kit

LOL

I don't get it - what's funny about wanting to know the contents of something you plan on putting in your body?

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Originally posted by PivotTechno I don't get it - what's funny about wanting to know the contents of something you plan on putting in your body?

Remember when they used to test your pills for you at parties???

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Originally posted by Jayx1 and the fact that their politicians arent as ignorant and ridiculous as ours.

That and the fact that Montreal is not a culture of mediocrity or worshiping the almighty dollar.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Actually, keeping a youthful mindset can help carry that on well into one's later years. The rave scene was started in Toronto because someone went somewhere else, saw what was going on, came home and decided to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. Lots of unused warehouse space and little regulation in regard to use of that space definitely facilitated the process. These days, most of the people I know who go somewhere else just come back shaking their heads at the Toronto scene, as there's no room and far too much red tape to wade through to recreate what they experienced when they were somewhere else. And please, don't bother telling me how great it is here - I get it, you're a fan. I'm not talking about what's already in existence in this city, I'm talking about potential.

Good way of summing up Toronto. Shaking your head at the Toronto scene is all you can really do once you see the scenes in other world-class party/club cities.

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Originally posted by TranceGrooves So, it has been decided that old days were the best and now the scene has gone downhill. Question arises: what shall we do or can do to ... a) somewhat bring back the old days b) save the scene c) maintain the quality of music and clubs Lets face it, we can't change what people wear to clubs and how many kilos of gel they put in their hair but lets contribute what we can and should do to help keep the "vibe alive".

That is like trying to skate up an icy mountain; it's a losing battle every time.

If the society and culture has become totally crap, it's naive to think that you can change it or possibly influence it, unless you are a person of incredible importance in society.

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Originally posted by malek Its kind of egoistical to believe that a scene died after you had left it. Life goes on and it evolves, tastes change.

So are you implying that a scene maintains equal quality forever?

Scenes always change, but it is also possible for scenes to get worse or get better, independent of other changes occurring to the scene.

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Originally posted by Swamper I blame Club Paparazzi 2000, LA Hollywood, Plastique, Orchid and Venus. Fun times

Freestyle Fridays, was it at Plastique I believe? BTW, there is a little place in Woodbridge that still does freestyle/euro nights, and the crowd is almost 100% jersey shore/guido/gino .

Also you can throw in Palazzo in there too lol, to cover the younger segment.

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Originally posted by petro Nothing is the same it once was, so why should the scene be an exception? For some people here the heyday was 2004, but I'm sure for some of the real old-schoolers 2004 was a crock of shit and was nothing compared to the purity that was 1998. Shit is never the way it used to be, and to be complaining about it when you yourself aren't even an active member in the scene is even more ridiculous. Just face it, you got old, your raving days are behind you now let the kids make the most out of THEIR scene. Yeah to you their scene might seem like balls, but how can you judge what they feel? I'm sure they think every night of theirs is an adventure and soul searching journey, just like you did when you started. We all have a party life-span (usually lasts 5 years, anything more than that and you need to re-asses your life) where the first few years are the most *magical* and then after a thousand parties its just another night. I'm sure every partier has gone through the same motions, and the people entering the scene now will be complaining in 2015 (thats if the world doesnt end by then) how things just weren't like they used to be.

Huge LOL. So how can YOU judge someone else's life, or judge their decisions or what they feel? For some people, life IS the party, for some people, "the magic" never ends, so that is a bit of a naive and narrow-minded thing to say.

With that statement, your post lost whatever credibility or point it might have had.

Furthermore, as I mentioned above, it certainly IS possible for a scene to be objectively better or worse, independent of other changes in the scene, or independent of how young people in that scene may "feel".

People in the GTA area really need to stop trying to be so politically or socially correct, it sickens me.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno It's this that pretty much renders the rest of what you're saying full of shee-it. A good number of the partiers I know have been at what they're doing for at least a decade, and most of them still love hitting the dancefloor and getting their groove on, while still managing to lead otherwise fulfilling and relatively successful lives. Since when does dancing and letting off some stream have some magical window of opportunity that closes once you reach a certain age? My other query is to those who claim that electronic music has went and gone all mainstream in Toronto and whatnot. If that's the case, then why don't we have the same size parties as the ones that have been going on in most major European cities for ages, and why don't we have outdoor, multiple day electronic music festivals like they do?

Lol, electronic music in Toronto is not mainstream, that is a misconception.

Electronic music in Toronto has simply become more fragmented, like the scene itself.

Plus, whatever electronic music events/parties that DO happen, tend to be more commercial than they have been before, so people get the wrong impression that electronic music has become more "mainstream", when in reality Toronto's scene has simply become more fragmented and more commercial.

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