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BTW to the person arguing teeth as evolutionary proof...how the eff do you explain BRITISH people's TEETH!? WTF ARE THEY EATING!!

There is no right. It's just a byproduct of people's desire to call things they don't like "wrong."

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On If might is all that it takes to make right, then my natural abilities and inclinations are all the justification that's needed? Well doesn't this just open up a whole new world of violence!

Woohoo!

The Hare Krishnas who run my yoga class cook completely vegan meals for us and never cease to amaze me with the variety of things they can create. That proves to me you can have a really varied and interesting diet without meat.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On If might is all that it takes to make right, then my natural abilities and inclinations are all the justification that's needed? Well doesn't this just open up a whole new world of violence!

man was put on this earth to rule lesser animals. it says so in the bible ffs.

This quote kind of sums up this discussion pretty well imo

"The symbolism of meat-eating is never neutral. To himself, the meat-eater seems to be eating life. To the vegetarian, he seems to be eating death. There is a kind of gestalt-shift between the two positions which makes it hard to change, and hard to raise the questions on the matter at all without becoming embattled."

- Author Mary Midgley

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Originally posted by fughawzi I think I love you now.

Join the club.

Hal, let's not get too carried away here. You know what I meant.

But what's right & wrong is up to interpretation, isn't it? THere's no set-in-stone doctrine about it.

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Originally posted by djhaziel This quote kind of sums up this discussion pretty well imo "The symbolism of meat-eating is never neutral. To himself, the meat-eater seems to be eating life. To the vegetarian, he seems to be eating death. There is a kind of gestalt-shift between the two positions which makes it hard to change, and hard to raise the questions on the matter at all without becoming embattled." - Author Mary Midgley

If you don't want to eat death, allow me to suggest that you start practicing your photosynthesis.

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Originally posted by Enigmatik But what's right & wrong is up to interpretation, isn't it? THere's no set-in-stone doctrine about it.

That's obviously going to depend on who you ask.

It seems to me that the sort of 'movement' of vegetarianism in the first place is a cultural byproduct of our inborn sense of compassion and meandering empathy for creatures that could imaginably reciprocate in specific conditions. A tradition of location or lack of accessibility toward the facilitation of animal proteins certainly can't be considered vegetarianism per se, as it more than likely was not a lifestyle choice people made, but a symptom of scarcity due to a great deal of factors. In this sense, modern vegetarians and vegans are hard-pressed to avoid accusations of a lifestyle of leisure, taking the provisions of our development and sort of nit-picking from the trey what leaves them feeling best about themselves, selfish as the rest of us, but with the weight of denial burdening their fevered egos. They have a choice before them just as most everyone does, but they're just too good for this or that- right?

All the good girls and boys finish what's on their plate.

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Originally posted by Arbiter If you don't want to eat death, allow me to suggest that you start practicing your photosynthesis.

I wonder where we'd be now if our lower primate ancestors along the Nile River chose not to incorporate fish into their diet millions of years ago. From what I've read, this elevated protein levels previously not consumed and was quite a significant catalyst in the evolution process of the brain... which has ultimately brought us to today's homo sapien.

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Originally posted by The17sss I wonder where we'd be now if our lower primate ancestors along the Nile River chose not to incorporate fish into their diet millions of years ago. From what I've read, this elevated protein levels previously not consumed and was quite a significant catalyst in the evolution process of the brain... which has ultimately brought us to today's homos.

fish made people gay?

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Originally posted by tubularbills fish made people gay?

no no, that was Satan.

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Originally posted by The17sss I wonder where we'd be now if our lower primate ancestors along the Nile River chose not to incorporate fish into their diet millions of years ago. From what I've read, this elevated protein levels previously not consumed and was quite a significant catalyst in the evolution process of the brain... which has ultimately brought us to today's homo sapien.

not protein but omega 3 and 6 which are essential oils , they were the ones that helped in the development of the human brain , which is essentially a big mass of fat

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Originally posted by djhaziel not protein but omega 3 and 6 which are essential oils , they were the ones that helped in the development of the human brain , which is essentially a big mass of fat

how dare you improve my statement.

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Originally posted by The17sss how dare you improve my statement.

lol

well essential oils are also found in laxseeds, flaxseed meal, hempseed oil, hempseeds, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, Brazil nuts, sesame seeds, avocados, some dark leafy green vegetables (kale, spinach, purslane, mustard greens, collards, etc.), canola oil (cold-pressed and unrefined), soybean oil, wheat ger

no need to praise meat for something that it does not deserve to be praised on IMO

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Originally posted by djhaziel lol well essential oils are also found in laxseeds, flaxseed meal, hempseed oil, hempseeds, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, Brazil nuts, sesame seeds, avocados, some dark leafy green vegetables (kale, spinach, purslane, mustard greens, collards, etc.), canola oil (cold-pressed and unrefined), soybean oil, wheat ger no need for to praise meat for something that it does not deserve to be praised on IMO

This

Most of those are ALA forms and a lot of people can't convert it to DHA, so you need to make sure to get a vegan/vegetarian DHA supplement. From algae.

I like Omega Zen.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Do you have Celiac's Disease, if I might ask?

yes! first started feeling the effects in my late teens but wasn't diagnosed until a few years into my 20's when it resulted in some excruciating complications . It's total Karma for me having been a complete glutton in my youth lol.

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Originally posted by fughawzi It isn't absurd, it's just a different viewpoint from yours. I find it ridiculous when people get into what is "natural" and what isn't. We are so removed from that. Eating meat isn't necessary to survival for a lot of people, so it doesn't really matter that we're animals or that chickens would eat us if they could. Can you not have legumes or soy? You're one of the few people I've met who has an issue getting protein as a vegetarian. It also doesn't sound like you're eating much?

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Originally posted by Lews Is it natural for us to fly at 35,000 feet? We're not simple animals, we're smart and evolved. What the fuck are you eating for protein? There are so many things you can eat for protein Oh, and Thai food is amazing.

It most certainly is natural for us to fly at 35,000 feet, and to eat other animals for that matter. I don't base my concept of "natural" on on social constructs we've made up. As long as it's universal phenomena it's natural. When animals evolve to a point where they're above being eaten i.e. when the phenomena of them being able to be consumed ceases to exist, only then it will no longer be natural for them to be eaten. For the time being, animals and plants (just like us) have to die either of natural causes or by being killed. It's no big deal *shrugs*. We'll get past it at some point.

I try to maintain a wheat free, gluten free, low dairy, low soy, low carb (1 serving/day) diet, i.e. the water & sunlight diet. I'm fine on protein atm. My point was that a regular meat eater would probably be able to go longer without eating meat before feeling like a complete zombie than I could if I skipped out on one or two elements of my current diet. Some of your food suggestions sound good. Though it's been 2 years I still consider myself a noob. The first 9 months I didn't know wtf I was doing and I felt like I was dying every day. Thai food has saved me to some extent, but there's still a lot I don't know how to cook. I definitely need to start exploring options other than whey protein.

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Originally posted by ziptnf There are plenty of ways to get protein on a plant-based diet. Almond milk, raw nuts, beans, peanut butter, soy products (tofu etc.)

almond milk is pretty delicious, raw nuts are expensive, peanut butter usually involves eating bread (which I can't) although I do cook with peanuts. Before I cut soy out of my diet, I really enjoyed tofu and veggie duck/chicken etc. Honestly, beans is one of the first things I should've learned to cook (other than just boiling them). One of the best things in all of this has been being able to cook for friends moreso than myself.

I'll try to find you more recipe blogs, but http://glutenfreegoddess.blogspot.com/ has saved me. I think she links to a bunch of other websites that should fit your needs (though there is meat involved a lot of the time).

Oh, do you like dates? When I need some protein quickly, I'll put some peanut butter in a date and munch.

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Originally posted by Arbiter There is no right. It's just a byproduct of people's desire to call things they don't like "wrong."

Still, something about eating Germans just doesn't feel right. Didn't that guy go to prison for that? No way I'm going to get locked up for devouring Meat187

If it's living, I make out with it; I would never kill it.

I wasn't raised eating a lot of meat. Mostly potatoes and such... I eat for every meal now out of forced habit, but I still find it kind of weird.

quote:

Originally posted by Blake almond milk is pretty delicious, raw nuts are expensive, peanut butter usually involves eating bread (which I can't) although I do cook with peanuts. Before I cut soy out of my diet, I really enjoyed tofu and veggie duck/chicken etc. Honestly, beans is one of the first things I should've learned to cook (other than just boiling them). One of the best things in all of this has been being able to cook for friends moreso than myself.

I love a good healthy breakfast with a nice ripe banana, a big dollop of freshly ground peanut butter from Whole Foods (no preservatives/salt/sugars) and a nice light drizzle of honey with a glass of almond milk. Delicious and nutritious. Beans are absolutely awesome you can cook them with almost anything.

i ate a whole pack of ham yesterday. i dont give a shit, its tasty

I love eating meat. I eat some every single day.

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