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-- what are your unpopular opinions on electronica, not giving a f?
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I've been getting really into the analog sounding stuff, whether it's new or old lately as well.. 909 and 808 drumkits, cuz I like it.

I dig the throwback stuff, but am also looking forward to when everybody breaks away from early Chicago house and starts mining epic house and mid 90's progressive house for ideas.

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Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch I dig the throwback stuff, but am also looking forward to when everybody breaks away from early Chicago house and starts mining epic house and mid 90's progressive house for ideas.

That'll only happen when 90s prog and epic house become cool. No idea when that'll ever happen, maybe 15 years?

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Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch I dig the throwback stuff, but am also looking forward to when everybody breaks away from early Chicago house and starts mining epic house and mid 90's progressive house for ideas.

that's not going to happen - chicago house has been mined consistently since the first time it was ever heard. it's the original house.

BRING TWILO BACK TO THE MASSES

OCCUPYTWILO

A club isn't "good" until people literally die inside.

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Originally posted by Adam420 I tend to agree. I dislike the fact that many people today are making "throwback" music. To me EDM was always about moving forward, pushing the boundaries, the next thing. I don't think it's good that so many people try to replicate older music these days. That's not what EDM is about to me.

Definitely. I hear Roland percussion (rimshots, shitty, poorly placed handclaps) in every freaking deep house track that comes out these days. And there's never a shortage of bandwagon dj's charting the shit out of them on Juno. The music is boring as fuck, good sound system or not its just a freaking hype barring the few exceptional exceptions. Here today, gone with the wind.

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Originally posted by Adam420 I tend to agree. I dislike the fact that many people today are making "throwback" music. To me EDM was always about moving forward, pushing the boundaries, the next thing. I don't think it's good that so many people try to replicate older music these days. That's not what EDM is about to me.

I agree. That's why I'm really only interested in listening to and collect the original stuff. Original underground disco, original detroit techno, original deep house.

The smaller amount of contemporary music I listen to tends to be more on the futuristic side.

That said I spend more time researching music from the past because I find it a lot more interesting if for nothing more than the stories it offers. Music is tied to a historical, cultural, fashion narrative. I like to find stories in music about culture and history, and quite honestly I think today's stories are quite boring because they are very highly derivative and similar. I have a tendency to like to look at the big picture of things and understand things in relation to this, so my instinct is always to go both deep and lateral.

omg yes me 2

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

You win this time, I'll be less nonchalant and give it more honor next time around.

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Originally posted by nefardec my instinct is always to go both deep and lateral.

so, i still don't know how Theo Parrish is supposed to be related to power electronics other than very superficially. use a little bit of screech, hiss, and hum and suddenly you are in line with Atrax Morgue.

for all the opinion pieces i've read about noise and it being stupid or pointless, being related to it and its similar genres is still big shit and alot of prestige for intellectuals. dunno anyone who discusses that stuff without being even a lil uppity. but then, in these discussions no-one mentions Mille Plateaux (the label, not the book) or any of the thousands of other examples of contemporary composers and would rather talk about John Cage. fuck that. know one name and you know everything, heard all there is to hear, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGmOoDWCVxU (this is power electronics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfz8xMEJ0OM (and this is especially good)

this is a rather good introduction as well:
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Le-J.../release/856333

watch out for the first track tho -- might blow your speakers. and "Kjetil D. Brandsdal � Komboloi" will make sense to anyone who ever wondered about TP's mixing abilities (not that you'll like it).

Since this is the thread for unpopular opinions, I won't hold back about electronica and club music.

As computers and software keep increasing their foothold and further permeate every aspect of music-making, our global music and DJ culture has steadily been regressing to a state which ultimately is leading our collective asses to some form of idiocracy for supporting it unconditionally.

From the lack of compositional skills, inability to write memorable melodies to total disregard for the basics of arrangement and any innovative ideas or deeper message on the side of the music makers, the public itself has sunk to ever-lower depths of expectations, having now been trained and conditioned to accept those dumbed-down and inferior productions as the standard. There are now audiences who would not know what to do if someone was going to actually play a song with vocals, a proper melodic buildup and was played with real instruments by human beings.

That same public, however reacts extremely well to people going on stage wearing giant masks or other gimmick props (to be fair, Kiss was way ahead of the curve with this one) while presenting simplistic tracks laden with special efx and synchronized to pyrotechnics, cheap thrills that are nonetheless a guarantee to get a rise out of them for a few seconds.

Thousands of years of humans patiently crafting the most exquisite music being made irrelevant by terabytes of beat-matched sample libraries and intelligent software agents turning it all into one gigantic highway lined with perfect samey-looking cars forever. And leaving real musicians completely out of work as no one wants to hire them.

Now of course, it would be unfair to forget the reality that most of this music I am ranting about is in fact designed to be consumed by people under the influence of chemicals, and that the aim of it is to clearly provide a smooth, predictable and appropriately themed endless backdrop to enhance their drug experience without ever 'rocking the boat' or waking them up from their torpor by causing them to think, other than to occasionally tweet about it (in 140 characters or less) or annoy everyone around them by snapping pictures with their new iPhone 4Gs.

Mike Judge arguably was a visionary, and as is the case with most of them had his disruptive movie Idiocracy buried by Fox (who funded it) when it became obvious how incredibly prescient its message was, and that it was hitting a bit too close to home for comfort. This is pretty much what seems to have been happening to the once-lavish, exotic and gorgeously iconoclastic world of dance music.

It all became streamlined, commoditized and defanged into a parody of its once-vibrant sexiness and beautiful energy; but with lots more bass, sharper drum sounds and wondrous synthetizer wooshes than ever before.

That's where young sonic rebels like Skrillex (who everyone loves to hate) can come in and wake people the f*ck up from that complacent status quo with gut-wrenching ugly-ass beats and demented bass lines. The world might just be getting ready for the next generation of electronic punks without guitars.

P.S.: before anyone even points it out, yes there are thousands of very able and extremely talented musicians, composers and practitioners of creative electronic music today, but they aren't very high on the public's radar, and for the most part what they do just doesn't seem to register at all.

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Originally posted by sg_57 [..] but they aren't very high on the public's radar, and for the most part what they do just doesn't seem to register at all.

Sorry to single out this one from the other points made, but it made me curious. When you say the publics radar, do you mean the one that has all the mainstream music on it? And where do you see the line between underground/unknown and mainstream go?

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Originally posted by sg_57 Since this is the thread for unpopular opinions, I won't hold back about electronica and club music. As computers and software keep increasing their foothold and further permeate every aspect of music-making, our global music and DJ culture has steadily been regressing to a state which ultimately is leading our collective asses to some form of idiocracy for supporting it unconditionally. From the lack of compositional skills, inability to write memorable melodies to total disregard for the basics of arrangement and any innovative ideas or deeper message on the side of the music makers, the public itself has sunk to ever-lower depths of expectations, having now been trained and conditioned to accept those dumbed-down and inferior productions as the standard. There are now audiences who would not know what to do if someone was going to actually play a song with vocals, a proper melodic buildup and was played with real instruments by human beings. That same public, however reacts extremely well to people going on stage wearing giant masks or other gimmick props (to be fair, Kiss was way ahead of the curve with this one) while presenting simplistic tracks laden with special efx and synchronized to pyrotechnics, cheap thrills that are nonetheless a guarantee to get a rise out of them for a few seconds. Thousands of years of humans patiently crafting the most exquisite music being made irrelevant by terabytes of beat-matched sample libraries and intelligent software agents turning it all into one gigantic highway lined with perfect samey-looking cars forever. And leaving real musicians completely out of work as no one wants to hire them. Now of course, it would be unfair to forget the reality that most of this music I am ranting about is in fact designed to be consumed by people under the influence of chemicals, and that the aim of it is to clearly provide a smooth, predictable and appropriately themed endless backdrop to enhance their drug experience without ever 'rocking the boat' or waking them up from their torpor by causing them to think, other than to occasionally tweet about it (in 140 characters or less) or annoy everyone around them by snapping pictures with their new iPhone 4Gs. Mike Judge arguably was a visionary, and as is the case with most of them had his disruptive movie Idiocracy buried by Fox (who funded it) when it became obvious how incredibly prescient its message was, and that it was hitting a bit too close to home for comfort. This is pretty much what seems to have been happening to the once-lavish, exotic and gorgeously iconoclastic world of dance music. It all became streamlined, commoditized and defanged into a parody of its once-vibrant sexiness and beautiful energy; but with lots more bass, sharper drum sounds and wondrous synthetizer wooshes than ever before. That's where young sonic rebels like Skrillex (who everyone loves to hate) can come in and wake people the f*ck up from that complacent status quo with gut-wrenching ugly-ass beats and demented bass lines. The world might just be getting ready for the next generation of electronic punks without guitars. P.S.: before anyone even points it out, yes there are thousands of very able and extremely talented musicians, composers and practitioners of creative electronic music today, but they aren't very high on the public's radar, and for the most part what they do just doesn't seem to register at all.

i don't think i've ever agreed with anything more than this.

EDIT: except skrillex

quote:

Originally posted by sg_57 That's where young sonic rebels like Skrillex (who everyone loves to hate) can come in and wake people the f*ck up from that complacent status quo with gut-wrenching ugly-ass beats and demented bass lines. The world might just be getting ready for the next generation of electronic punks without guitars. P.S.: before anyone even points it out, yes there are thousands of very able and extremely talented musicians, composers and practitioners of creative electronic music today, but they aren't very high on the public's radar, and for the most part what they do just doesn't seem to register at all.

Great post, but honestly I wouldn't put the phrase 'sonic rebel' anywhere near Skrillex, unless it was followed by a trademark sign. Talk about overproduction and pyrotechnics...

His music might be ugly, but he would never have been on stage at CBGB's with that act.

There is no new punk generation, there are only new punk stylings. Well there are, but they certainly aren't named skrillex and they certainly don't work with Korn and lady gaga.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it can't be rebelious or punk if it's what everyone wants.

I really don't know if what i'm about to say is unpopular, I think this issue sits on the populist camp. Whatever, I am in a salty mood today. I just want to say that having an exclusive vinyl release is totally BS. At least release a digital version months after. That I can agree with, I totally see why people want to release on vinyl, but give us digital guys a chance.

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Originally posted by sg_57 P.S.: before anyone even points it out, yes there are thousands of very able and extremely talented musicians, composers and practitioners of creative electronic music today, but they aren't very high on the public's radar, and for the most part what they do just doesn't seem to register at all.

I find it extremely strange that you judge the health of electronic music based on what the "public" get to hear. Exactly when were large numbers of creative and talented electronic musicians in the public eye in the past?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's a nice post with some good points about the current state of dance music, but I think it's more that dance/electronic music has become more publicly popular in general while the "underground" side of it has remained fairly intact.

I think?

I don't think he makes any particularly interesting points whatsoever. The entire post is just regurgitating the same generalised and clich�d complaints that could have been made at any point in the last twenty years, and he opens with the same "computers are evil" bullshit we were just discussing.

I don't think there's any problem with creative and interesting electronic music out there. The increased influence of the blog/hipster crowd on the scene means there's probably more reception than ever for weird, out-there and interesting electronic music. My problem is with the middle ground. The hipsters may love the weird stuff and the kids may love the obnoxious noisy stuff, but the one thing lacking from the contemporary scene is energetic and fun yet credible dance music. The stuff that makes you rave your face off and finish the night covered in sweat, yet isn't moronic or manipulative. It's hard to find this stuff, and even harder to find anyone playing it.

I think his reference to an Idiocracy level regression in popular music due in part computer technology is interesting.

And I'm not really one to agree with "computers are evil LSDKJFLSDJF", but I think that accessibility in terms of production will just lead to more gimmicky "big name" acts.

Why?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J he opens with the same "computers are evil" bullshit we were just discussing.

Actually computers aren't evil at all, but the effects of the software they run can be ... sobering when left in the hands of often-times lazy users who don't really care much about anything but using it as a mere shortcut rather than as a creative tool with its own set of challenging features to use.

The thing I was alluding to is the fact that in days past musicians were playing together all the time, whether live, in the studio or both and from years of practice often times managed to achieve a degree of funky cohesiveness that created a certain vibe and intensity which computer systems just aren't capable of reproducing or generating unless the operator is willing to spend inordinate amounts of time 'humanizing' the tracks. (try and program War's "City, Country, City" on a sequencer).

An apt comparison would be a lovely handcrafted wood-carving versus something machine-made to exacting standards, yet so close to perfection that over time many people find themselves less attached to it. (allusion to Japanese 'wabi-sabi' and other aesthetically imperfect artifacts)

From seeing how popular a lot of the music made in the 1970's still is today (all before the advent of the first wave of drum machines, MIDI and cheesy gated reverb on so many records) one can therefore wonder if this tightly-played human solution doesn't seem to offer certain long-lasting advantages over its software-engineered brethren.

By the same token a lot of early Detroit records were made with sometimes remarkably primitive equipment, and sync to tape machines with a lot of wavering in playback (like 4-track Portastudio or 8-track 1/4" analog tape decks) gave them a certain character which modern gear just doesn't have.

I think that over time we can see a pattern of certain things created which having staying power, what I was ranting about (since this is the thread for it) is the fact that software has enabled people with arguably very little qualification to make technically perfectly acceptable music which is otherwise devoid of much in lieu of emotional qualities. Wish I could put my finger on what that is, but a large number of those using this software appear to me to make a lot of eminently forgettable music, as if the perfectly rounded lines and super-straight vistas it suggests leave no imprint on the human brain, whereas the more imperfect hand-made ones seem to create little markers that one can easily become attached to over time. (In addition to the other comments I made about lack of compositional skills or ability to actual play an actual instrument)

At every step of the way it's hard to argue about the sonic advantages to using sequencers, drum machines and samplers over the real thing (as in: live musicians playing real instruments by hand) whether it's clearer sound, deeper bass, sharper highs, predictable levels and all the rest not to say anything of the actual cost of recording those real live instruments. Yet when the dust settles I find it interesting that a lot of the music that was created with those far more primitive means would appear to have a much-longer lifespan and have made far greater of an impression on many listeners.

The rant was about the disposability of much of what's out there today, and most of that has been facilitated by the 'distributed intelligence' that designing clever software products makes possible; and how over time how that's influenced the general public's sense of what's right and wrong, and that by now a lot of people who go to clubs are so used to this sort of fodder that it's not something worth questioning. Once wild but now tamed utilitarian music tailored for a specific purpose.

And yes, before you ask and as you probably can guess, I work with computers and music a fair amount, so even though you might not agree with much I write, I certainly feel just as qualified as the next person to venture this sort of opinion from a great many years of experience doing this in the innards of the beast.

Hence the rant.

Rather than going on about other people's rants, it would be great to hear your unpopular opinions just as well...

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I find it extremely strange that you judge the health of electronic music based on what the "public" get to hear. Exactly when were large numbers of creative and talented electronic musicians in the public eye in the past?

Let's see.... Vangelis, Kraftwek, YMO, Jean-Michel Jarre, Giorgio Moroder and to an extent early Depeche Mode/Vince Clark. All multi-million sellers... (well, maybe not Kraftwerk) I could go on.

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