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-- Mormon mother "abuses" child, gets ridiculed by entire world
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If I could turn back time, I would be born into wiener's family. Coolest kids ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Tell that, if they don't behave, William Ashley is going to lecture them about the importance of <insert random topic here>. Bonus points if you convince them Bill is Jesus.

if you can believe it, my brother is as big of a tool as william.. in fact, i'm still not convinced that they are not the same person..

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie I don't think it's ok to hit anyone, for any reason, ever. Are you some kind of troglodyte?

lol, no, have studied human rights, and have studied WHY they were created.

Hint: If people weren't naturally violent, we wouldn't need them!

stop idolizing humanity by pretending like we can escape our physicality, and escape violence: You did psych, heard of Freud??

I'm not endorsing violence. I'm telling you its a human thing. Trying to pretend like we're so much better than that at our core (children are core beings, since they don't have social norms imbedded in them yet which tells them violence is bad) is simply silly.

jesus jenny, in the last five posts i've asked you: Do kids and adults have the same level of consciousness?????????

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel i'm not terribly opposed to a light smack on the ass etc.. but i think it would be confusing for a young child. They learn to trust you, and then you hit them (even lightly) it kind of takes that trust away.. and that hurts them more mentally then physically. My parents tried to hit me too, and it didn't do anything but break a few kitchen utensils and turn my ass a rosy shade. The thing that got to me the most was my dad talking to me about things and explaining the consequences of poor choices. i agree giving them a light smack here and there is definitely less harmless then empty threats, spoiling and no discipline. But that's pretty much the same conclusion i came to reading jenny's posts. i do put all my needs second to my kids, it's a grueling task.. and really tiring but i know it will pay off. You can't turn the clock and fix the mistakes you made with your kids when they were young. I know i've done well.. my kids are proof.

i completely agree with you wiener: I don't encourage violence, but a light smack is not necessarily all bad, and its something that will definitely be understood by the kid.


also LOL, putting in your cute kids to try and emotionalise the argument

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel if you can believe it, my brother is as big of a tool as william.. in fact, i'm still not convinced that they are not the same person..

That's even better, you don't need to go all the way to Ontario now! Give him a hut somewhere in the plains (preferably near a pond) and he'll probably live off bird drops and eventual stuff you give him when he comes over to lecture your kids! Who doesn't love their uncle!?

Bonus points if his name is Henry.

You studied human rights, well I've studied child and family development, psychology, AND children's rights. Human rights are at the very core of what I do, lol.

From the UN Convention:

Article 19 (Protection from all forms of violence): Children have the right to be protected from being hurt and mistreated, physically or mentally. Governments should ensure that children are properly cared for and protect them from violence, abuse and neglect by their parents, or anyone else who looks after them. In terms of discipline, the Convention does not specify what forms of punishment parents should use. However any form of discipline involving violence is unacceptable. There are ways to discipline children that are effective in helping children learn about family and social expectations for their behaviour � ones that are non-violent, are appropriate to the child's level of development and take the best interests of the child into consideration. In most countries, laws already define what sorts of punishments are considered excessive or abusive. It is up to each government to review these laws in light of the Convention.




Your problem seems to be that you don't equate corporal punishment with abuse, when the fact is that ANY form of CP IS abuse.

Oh, I do agree with you that all CP is abuse.

Any person who doesn't think these things are abuse has clearly got a few screws loose:

hitting, kicking, shaking or throwing, scratching, pinching, biting, pulling hair or boxing ears, forcing children to stay in uncomfortable positions, burning, scalding, or forced ingestion


All of those things are considered "reasonable force" in Canada's Criminal code in the section condoning corporal punishment. Are you fucking kidding me??? Lol

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII there is no consensus on human rights, what charter are you referring to? if you're talking legally, the state has the ability to override individuals rights when they break the law. extending this to a home, parents have the right to override a childs rights when they break the law.

Uhh, parents have no authority to enforce state legislation. They are just private citizens like anyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie hitting, kicking, shaking or throwing, scratching, pinching, biting, pulling hair or boxing ears, forcing children to stay in uncomfortable positions, burning, scalding, or forced ingestion

Oh, I thought we were talking about CP. Never mind then.

These things suck as well...

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie You studied human rights, well I've studied child and family development, psychology, AND children's rights. Human rights are at the very core of what I do, lol. From the UN Convention: Article 19 (Protection from all forms of violence): Children have the right to be protected from being hurt and mistreated, physically or mentally. Governments should ensure that children are properly cared for and protect them from violence, abuse and neglect by their parents, or anyone else who looks after them. In terms of discipline, the Convention does not specify what forms of punishment parents should use. However any form of discipline involving violence is unacceptable. There are ways to discipline children that are effective in helping children learn about family and social expectations for their behaviour � ones that are non-violent, are appropriate to the child's level of development and take the best interests of the child into consideration. In most countries, laws already define what sorts of punishments are considered excessive or abusive. It is up to each government to review these laws in light of the Convention. Your problem seems to be that you don't equate corporal punishment with abuse, when the fact is that ANY form of CP IS abuse.

lol i know that... did you read the rest of the post, or just stop after you saw i studied them?

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII if you're talking legally, the state has the ability to override individuals rights when they break the law. extending this to a home, parents have the right to override a childs rights when they break the law. if you're talking morally, there is no consensus at all, moral rights are created and passed on from parent to child: When moral rights are broken people must deal with the ramifications.

i know what human rights doctrines claim. I also know that they are words which 1: Are biased, 2: Are not enforced, and 3: are constantly overlooked... especially the UN charter.

Its nice talking about theory, and i said multiple times i agree, corporal punishment should not be necessary, but I'm talking about practice.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Uhh, parents have no authority to enforce state legislation. They are just private citizens like anyone else.

LOL I'm saying parents have the right to handle the rules they setup within their own home, just as state leaders have the right to handle rules they setup within their state

So then you DO think it's ok to abuse children?

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie Any person who doesn't think these things are abuse has clearly got a few screws loose: hitting, kicking, shaking or throwing, scratching, pinching, biting, pulling hair or boxing ears, forcing children to stay in uncomfortable positions, burning, scalding, or forced ingestion All of those things are considered "reasonable force" in Canada's Criminal code in the section condoning corporal punishment. Are you fucking kidding me??? Lol

good god jenny, have you read any of my posts????


i'm starting to feel crazy over here:


are adults and children the same? do they have the same level of conscious development? please answer.

also, where did i ever say any of those things were ok? i didn't, i was talking about light spanking, or physical correction, not kicking and all that shit ffs.

I think its ok to hit your child in a light way, i obviously do not condone abuse (overly violent correction)

quote:

Originally posted by Lira That's even better, you don't need to go all the way to Ontario now! Give him a hut somewhere in the plains (preferably near a pond) and he'll probably live off bird drops and eventual stuff you give him when he comes over to lecture your kids! Who doesn't love their uncle!? Bonus points if his name is Henry.

no his name is jovan..

All right, just before I go to bed: What do you mean by CP, Jenny? I got it's something related to child violence, but I've got something completely unrelated in my head when I think of it.

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII are adults and children the same? do they have the same level of conscious development? please answer.

No, they aren't the same. Children are considered a vulnerable population, which is exactly why you shouldn't fucking hit them to teach them a lesson.


Now answer my question: you think it's ok to abuse children?? ANY form of hitting is abuse, my friend. No matter which way you want to paint it make yourself feel better.

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel no his name is jovan..

OMG, that's my dad's name! Well, sorta...

quote:

Originally posted by Lira All right, just before I go to bed: What do you mean by CP, Jenny? I got it's something related to child violence, but I've got something completely unrelated in my head when I think of it.

Corporal Punishment? (at least i hope that's what it is..)

quote:

Originally posted by Miss Pie No, they aren't the same. Children are considered a vulnerable population, which is exactly why you shouldn't fucking hit them to teach them a lesson. Now answer my question: you think it's ok to abuse children?? ANY form of hitting is abuse, my friend. No matter which way you want to paint it make yourself feel better.

thank the gods, you read it

if they're not the same then why are you measuring them by adult standards?


fine i condone abuse. cbf really, you're not going to agree no matter what i say. if you re-read my posts you might understand my point, but i doubt it.

so re-read wiener's last few posts (skipping the ones about her brother ) and maybe you'll see what i'm trying to say.

The world isn't that fucking simple, hopefully if you have kids you'll be able to get past the text-books and figure out a way to deal with reality.

light physical reprimands are not all bad, they're something that kids can UNDERSTAND (kids you yourself admit are NOT at adult levels of intellect), and something parents can succesfully utilise (for parents who aren't able to live in this idiotic utopia you claim all parents must live in before they can have a child.

edit: Also, the whole human rights thing is redundant: Parent-child relations are different than those existing between citizens: I don't in any way condone any kind of physical contact between kids and other adults. the connection between a child and their parent is entirely different, and so, human rights regulations are a bit silly. I don't think the UN charter would extend to children, unless you warped them to suite your own agenda-- they don't have most freedoms outlined, the parent is their guardian and defines what is right for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira OMG, that's my dad's name! Well, sorta...

LOL does your dad have a huge hungarian flag tattooed on his arm saying "son of hungary" ?

PS- my brother is not hungarian

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel LOL does your dad have a huge hungarian flag tattooed on his arm saying "son of hungary" ? PS- my brother is not hungarian

lolwut, and I thought Jovan was a Serbian name

What's with his Hungarian pride? Did he meet Jenny or...?

By the way: No tattoos, he was in the Air Force... but he does have a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge moustache

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel Corporal Punishment? (at least i hope that's what it is..)

Oh... I kept thinking "C" stood for "child" and I couldn't find a better meaning for the letter "P"

quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel i'm not terribly opposed to a light smack on the ass etc.. but i think it would be confusing for a young child. They learn to trust you, and then you hit them (even lightly) it kind of takes that trust away.. and that hurts them more mentally then physically. i agree giving them a light smack here and there is definitely less harmless then empty threats, spoiling and no discipline. But that's pretty much the same conclusion i came to reading jenny's posts.

to be clear, i personally wouldn't smack my kids even lightly, and i do think it is more mentally harmful then physically..

igk inc.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira lolwut, and I thought Jovan was a Serbian name What's with his Hungarian pride? Did he meet Jenny or...? By the way: No tattoos, he was in the Air Force... but he does have a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge moustache Oh... I kept thinking "C" stood for "child" and I couldn't find a better meaning for the letter "P"

his real story about how he came into the world and started life is really shitty so he created this fanciful story about how his biological mother was hungarian and she walked all across hungary starving and poor and immigrated to canada. The truth is, he did find out what his biological mothers last name was, and it was an english name.. and that the man that raped her was italian. so whatever helps him sleep at night, i think he likes the idea of hungary.. i don't know.

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